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Raceways, Conduits and EMI

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
How do I run low voltage wires and a receptacle wire from my TV upstairs to the basement below where the components will be? I have plaster that is attached directly to brick (no wood lathe or anything) and somehow drywall is glued and nailed on top of that. That leaves me on average a heavy inch from the face of the brick to the finished surface. My plan is to channel out the drywall/plaster on one side and run low voltage wire (speaker wire, hdmi, etc.) in some sort of raceway (wiremold?) and then refinish the wall with plaster so the wiring is completely hidden. I'd also like to do the same thing on the other side of the TV (about 3 ft away) except it'd be 12 gauge wire to a receptacle. The wires would be nearly flush to the face of the drywall and y understanding is that if my wires don't START at least an inch deep into the brick than I need intermediate metal conduit or rigid metal conduit which is ok for the power side but won't this cause EMI on the low voltage side with all my hdmi, toslink, etc.? What can I use so that both sides are nail proof/nail resistant? Would a metallic raceway cause any induction or interference? Would running a lot of theater wires together cause interference? Would this be up to code? I've been looking at the NEC code book and have somewhat of a handle on what is necessary in terms of future nail/ screw proofing, but I am worried about EMI.
post #2 of 16
Quote:


I am worried about EMI.

Why? Conduit doesn't create EMI, current flowing through conductors produces a magnetic field directly proportional to the magnitude of the current.
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Why? Conduit doesn't create EMI, current flowing through conductors produces a magnetic field directly proportional to the magnitude of the current.

Cause EMI is poor word choice, rather pick up EMI and then be more likely to induce current on my theater wires. I've read that conduit runs of about 2 meters or more (This would be about 7 or 8 feet) is likely to pick up emi from outside sources. Not sure what outside sources are, radio or wifi signals maybe? But I'm also worried about the EMI of running that many chords together too: 3 hdmi, 1 (3 conductor) rca component, 1 (3 conductor) rca composite, 1 optical, 1 3.5 mm jack, 1 ethernet, 1 coax and possibly a vga.
post #4 of 16
Conduit provides shielding that could help with EMI/RFI, not hurt.

I am not sure what you mean by needing conduit if the wires do not start behind the brick... Is this a brick wall, or brick around a fireplace? There are special requirements for wires near combustion sources.

I'd use a large'ish conduit or even PVC to make it easy to pull wires later if need be. You can use a cap behind the TV (or whatever). What is required to meet code depends upon your local codes. You might be ahead getting an electrician to take a look and paying for the estimate and advice s/he can provide.
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
The surface is all drywall. I live in an old row home where the walls were plaster applied directly to brick. The guys who rehabbed the place just glued and nailed drywall over top of the plaster. so I have roughly an inch of plaster and drywall before you hit brick. The code book indicates I would need to channel into the brick itself fairly deep (which I am very reluctant to do) to prevent someone say hanging a picture or something from getting a surprise shock. Instead of that or surface mounting I would like to channel out the drywall/plaster, run my wires and then replaster over top of them, but because they are so close to the surface I need some sort of nail protection (I believe metal atleast 1/16" thick).

But it seems by the two answer you guys have given me I'm wrong and conduit won't hurt me in terms of EMI. Now I'd just like to know if running all those wires together creates any emi issues. Are there any I should seperate into their own channel? The toslink maybe? Thanks so much for your help so far!
post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTroy View Post

The toslink maybe?

TOSlink is light pulses. It's immune to any interference (nor does it give any.)
post #7 of 16
You can try to use a steel pipe as a conduit - http://www.steelconduit.org/rsc_home.htm (grounded of cause). That way you will avoid nails piercing wires and have some protection from EMI.
post #8 of 16
Quote:


I've read that conduit runs of about 2 meters or more (This would be about 7 or 8 feet) is likely to pick up emi from outside sources.

I don't see how...never heard of this..where'd you read it?

Quote:


Now I'd just like to know if running all those wires together creates any emi issues.

Did you read my post?
post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
@Tulpa- Good to know. I had not heard of this before. Hopefully optical wires will replace other metal conductors sooner rather than later.

@ap1- I was thinking something along those lines. the conduit would only need to run 7 ft or so in the wall on both the high voltage and low voltage side. Any idea how I would ground that?
post #10 of 16
Quote:


Hopefully optical wires will replace other metal conductors sooner rather than later.

Optical fiber has been around for decades.
Unfortunately, you can't just replace a conductor with a glass fiber.

Quote:


Any idea how I would ground that?

Connect a wire from the conduit to ground.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

I don't see how...never heard of this..where'd you read it?

Apparently I was mistaken about that and now I can't find where I read that.

Did you read my post?

I did and you said "current flowing through a wire creates a magnetic field..." Which I knew. so wouldn't the magnetic field produced by current through say an hdmi induce current on one of the other conductors and thus interfere with the quality of the signal coming from that conductor? sorry if I'm being thick headed but if I'm remembering my physics correctly a current running through a wire "A" will induce a current running on a conductor "B" parallel to the original. I assume this is a bad thing for the signal quality of B.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Optical fiber has been around for decades.
Unfortunately, you can't just replace a conductor with a glass fiber.



Connect a wire from the conduit to ground.

I understand that. I've had to do reports on lasers and stimulate emission. I just know that fiber optics are starting to replace metal wiring in computers and I am hoping the same will be true of home theater wires soon. Especially with the added benefit of no emi. I guess I just never thought about it.
post #13 of 16
Quote:


current flowing through a wire creates a magnetic field

...directly proportional to the magnitude of the current flowing.

If very little current flows, as it does in high impedance circuits driven by low voltages, then a very small manetic field will be produced.
If current,due to this field,is induced into an HDMI cable, it will be cancelled out by the diferential receiver.
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

...directly proportional to the magnitude of the current flowing.

If very little current flows, as it does in high impedance circuits driven by low voltages, then a very small manetic field will be produced.
If current,due to this field,is induced into an HDMI cable, it will be cancelled out by the diferential receiver.

Between my physics classes and the electrician I used to work with I guess I've been looking at things that have already been accounted for or are on the high voltage scale . so what you're saying is because of the low current in low voltage wiring, the induced current is minimal and that induced current will be taken care of by the ending device. Well I guess I'm good to go then. I'll run all my low voltage home theater wires on one side of the tv in a steel raceway and the 12 gauge receptacle wire on the opposite side in a metal conduit and ground them both. Thanks guys. You've been a huge help!
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTroy View Post

I just know that fiber optics are starting to replace metal wiring in computers and I am hoping the same will be true of home theater wires soon.

Fiber optics are good for data transmission, but they kind of suck (read: won't do at all) for power conveyance, which is still needed for things like passive speakers. Also, fiber optics are more fragile than electrical wires.

But you can get things like optical HDMI cables. You'll pay a pretty penny for them, though.
post #16 of 16
Note speaker levels are not always low-voltage and current:

1 W into 8 ohms is 2.83 Vrms = 8 Vpp and 0.35 Arms = 1 App
10 W into 8 ohms is 8.9 Vrms = 25 Vpp and 1.1 Arms = 3.2 App
100 W into 8 ohms is 28.3 Vrms = 80 Vpp and 3.5 Arms = 10 App

Unfortunately, you might have to test to see if it's OK to run speaker cables with line-level cables, or if running speaker cables with the power lines causes hum in the speakers. I have done it both ways and had it work or fail, but most of my experience with long runs is in pro installs that include lots of mic/line/speaker cables, very long runs, and lots of power. Most of the time I was running mic and line levels, with the amps on or around the stage. Good quality low-level cables (well-shielded interconnects and twisted pair speaker cables) usually work out.
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