Best pair of fronts for $2000? - Page 5

Less port flow and/or back wave info I imagine. I've noticed you can place a TL design up against a wall without smearing the bass, which cannot be said for bass reflex. Each design is different, so I imagine some will be better than others, but the TL cabinet seems to be more user friendly regarding room modes and boundaries (probably more of the latter). I'm not real familiar with the technically specifics behind the two designs, so I'm just speaking based on my own findings and others as well. I probably should have said room boundaries rather than modes, so I edited my post for you.

I found this post by Paul K. that might help explain things...??

"Unlike vented systems, a TL will have stuffing throughout part of its length, not just partial stuffing or lined walls, and this aids in limiting, if not preventing, internal reflections from coming back through the driver's cone, which helps out the quality of the midrange sound. Lastly, a TL uses the 1/4-wavelength resonant frequency of its length in a traditional TL, and of its length and taper if it's a tapered TL, to provide bass reinforcement. The 1/4-wave resonant frequency of the length of an ML-TL or ML-TQWT is used for part of the bass reinforcement along with the size of the mass-loading port. "

Here's another explanation on the two designs that might help, Curtis:

"As the name implies, a transmission line is a long tube that expends from the back of the loudspeaker. By tapering the line, there is NO possible way in which sound can reflect back and forth and therefore standing waves and resonances common to standard speaker enclosures are eliminated. By eliminating back-wave reflections, the driver is also protected from having the back-wave re-radiate through the diaphragm, causing distortion and diaphragm breakup. The purpose of the transmission line is to eliminate the phase cancellation that would occur if the driver was in free air. Because of the length of the line, there is not enough time for air to travel through the line and cancel the front-wave. The magic of the system is what happens to the back-wave. The length of the line creates a tuned chamber much like an open ended pipe from a pipe organ. This causes a phase shift depending on the frequency and the length of the line. Through proper design, this causes the wave from the end of the TL to reinforce the front-wave at the frequencies where the front-wave begins to decrease due to increased air resistance at lower frequencies. Also, the tuned aspect of the TL strongly effects the fundamental resonance of the loudspeaker. It causes a very heavy dampening effect, which also helps to eliminate the overshoot and undershoot of the massive bass driver diaphragm. But this dampening is unlike the air spring of a sealed box and the diaphragm does not have to fight for motion. As a result, the efficiency is better than bass-reflex enclosures, the accuracy is better than acoustic suspension, and the frequency response and linearity is better than all systems."

If you still want to look at towers - The Absolute Tower from NHT is also,
a nice option - it is a sealed design.
http://www.nhthifi.com/Absolute-Towe...&category=3773

I still reccomend on-wall for some improvement - when you move, you will
have the option to use them as surrounds.

Thanks Brandon, much appreciated.

Yes, I could understand boundaries vs modes.

I wonder why subwoofer engineers/companies don't do TLs. I am sure there are some tradeoffs that are not mentioned above, as there is with everything. Such is audio.

That would be my understanding as well. The information provided by Nuance strictly deals with what is happening inside the box. I don't see how that could have an effect on room modes. Same frequencies will be reinforced, and cancelled whether the speaker is sealed, bass reflex, horn loaded, or even a transmission line.

The OPs room will likely be a problem for any type of speaker, however room correction can be a wonderful thing, and might well be able to make the situation quite tolerable. Since speakers are to be auditioned, there is one sure way to find out.

Jay

I agree. Perhaps the wall we cannot see (behind the camera) would be more suitable.

I thought I remember a post by Paul from Triad mentioning that there is difference less of a difference between ported and sealed loud speakers when it comes to room interaction. If I remember correctly, he mentioned this because some were debating or, should I say recommending against rear ported and front ported for near boundary placement.

I may be way off on this, as I cannot find the post.

Give the B&W CT 7.4 LCRS a try IMO.

No need to apologize. No rush. Just there's lots of good people reading your thread. Perhaps someone will come up with the ultimate solution

I really like this option for you now that I am seeing the room. Vann's has the OMD15's back and forth between 399.99 and 499.99 so check prices. For your price point you could get the two 15's, 2 OMD5's for surround and a CM1 for your center. You would have about 5 bills left over for a killer sub. I just purchased this system myself and am loving it. I have had MANY different home theater speakers, these by far are the best I have owned and I now feel like my search is over (for now ;-) ) The OMD15's also sound great for 2 channel music. In my opinion they more than keep up with my Sierra 1 NrT bookshelves. While my room is not exactly like yours, I do have openings on either side of the front mains (the 15's) and the omnipolar design handles this with ease.

just to be goofy here is a vid of my 8060-st's from deftech playing music....its a youtube vid but when people say deftech suck I have to respond...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU8vWTMasbI

This is not meant to sound like a criticism of Def Techs, but what does that actually prove? What your speakers sound like recorded by a consumer mic (I'm guessing it wasn't studio quality), compressed by YouTube, and played back over my speakers? (lol)

lol...im just being goofy bud...

I would buy used on Audiogon, you could get a $4000+ speaker there. And also look for speakers from companies in the high end and that have been around a while. You get good trickle down technology from their top line and they often make their own drivers. These companies have a lot of experience and more sophisticated design and manufacturing.

So Dynaudio, BW, Focal, KEF, Revel. Get the goods!

If anything I would put your tv and speakers in front of the 3 windows....re-arrange the furniture and move the dvd rack infront of stairs.......atleast thats what I would do......and if you have 5 grand for speakers and such you can surly swing a good AV rack and a movie stand...

I agree. In my house, I have equivalent difficulties with room arrangement. Big double door sized openings in the middle of two walls and windows on the other two sides--in a 12x12 room. It was best for me to put the TV in front of one of the windows with speakers on either side. Then my couch sits forward opposite the TV enough that one can walk from the other room around the side of the couch with surrounds in the back corners, sort of like you would have to do. Sounds good in my house

I smoke too...yes bad habit...but yea....If it were me I really would place tv and speakers in front of window and mess with placement of furniture to get it right....might take a while to find good placement but I would think it is possible....then you could do towers no problem...

lol....but yea...work on placement first...then once you have it down then drill holes for speakers....will work out nicely I think...

That is what I would think about, and you would have better sound control.
Even good bookshelves and a center channel, with a sub would work there.

As already mentioned in a previous post, I meant to say room boundaries, not room modes, and I've edited my post as to not cause further confusion. Some TL designs will interact differently with room boundaries when compared to a standard bass reflex design. Try it, you'll see. In this case I am speaking of a Martin King TL design; every one of the ML TL's I've heard could be placed closer to the back wall than a bass reflex, with the latter suffering from over-pronounced bass and boom/bloat. The TL's bass does increase, but it isn't boom and seems to stay linear, similar to if you just turned up the gain output on a subwoofer. Why this actually happens, I don't know, but I suspect it does actually relate to what happens internally in the cabinet.



This is also true; sealed will interact differently as well. I don't quite understand where Pet Motel's statement is coming from. It's already been proven that these designs interact differently with the room. I'm not saying it's night and day better, just different, and up to the individual to decide which they like best.


Agreed. Take your time and be thorough.

Can we see pictures of the room? The bedroom is a personal space, so if you're not comfortable with that I understand. Perhaps just draw a mock-up or something? At 13x9 it might be better, but it could be worse. You'll have to heavily treat a space that size IMO, which is something 99% of us wouldn't be open to doing. Is there another room or basement you could use?

Moving the system against the windows as already recommended would probably give you the best sound, but you'd need a new TV stand, possibly a new DVD rack, etc, so it might not be the favorite option. The point here is this: If you've got that much coin to spend on a nice system but the room isn't suitable, it will be a complete waste. The room acoustics can effect the sound more than the speakers themselves, and even the greatest speakers in the world will sound bad in a room that has poor acoustics. We're honestly not trying to poop in the pool here; just being honest with you man. I really do hope things work out for you.

I think the confusion comes from the use of "mode" vs "boundary", which you corrected in your post, but I didn't in mine since I quoted you.

A rear ported speaker would obviously get more boundary reinforcement if the port is close to the wall. I can only comment on the Songtower, since that is the only TL design that I can remember hearing, and it the bass definitely has a different flavor to what I have heard from ported/sealed speakers/subs.

That said, place any speaker closer to the back wall and you lose depth of the soundstage.

CaTaSTrOphiK....you are getting good advice here, and hopefully you will be able to put it to good use.