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No love for X-ref? - Page 4

post #91 of 383
2/3/12 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

That still doesn't justify you breaking the forum rules by bashing any sub.

Where exactly did that take place?
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post #92 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Once you you get a real sub that can play real bass, that defensiveness just disappears.

/
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post #93 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The bottom line is that if it works for you, that's a beautiful thing. You shouldn't need reaffirmations and reassurances from others to tell you this. When you go seeking those reassurances, you run the risk of not hearing what you hope for. That's reality.

yup... true dat...
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post #94 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 
Don't know if that qualifies as bashing. Auditor I appreciate you standing up for X-ref, but your confrontational style isn't conducive to a good discussion on this subs strengths and weaknesses. I wanted other peoples thoughts on X-ref, agreeing or not. It did somewhat turn into bashing but part of that is your defensive nature and unwillingness to listen to fair and honest opinions offered by others. Of course it didn't help that first critic on this thread did bash it. Cel had reasonable criticism of it. I for one am open to honest critiques and opinions.
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post #95 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Mojo, in my OP I stated that I wanted to hear good and bad about X-ref. I am willing to hear all. That said this thread went downhill fast and even I got upset. I apologize to all for my long winded rant a day or two ago, well almost all. One person managed to get under my skin. But I'm pretty sure that was his intention. It worked. Won't again. I got it out of my system.
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post #96 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:35am
And the beat goes on.

Volfan--let's learn from the experience. For lots of reasons, you're just not going to get a polite consensus on this hardware, not around here. If its performance satisfies you, then start collecting media to play.

Just make sure you keep your distance from the Master List thread. That way madness lies.
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post #97 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

And the beat goes on.

Volfan--let's learn from the experience. For lots of reasons, you're just not going to get a polite consensus on this hardware, not around here. If its performance satisfies you, then start collecting media to play.

Just make sure you keep your distance from the Master List thread. That way madness lies.

Thank you.
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post #98 of 383
2/3/12 at 11:40am
Who cares what people have to say about your sub. If you're happy with it that's all that matters!
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post #99 of 383
2/3/12 at 12:05pm
What I can't understand is why some people hold 'grudges' against speakers and subwoofers? Of course, we all have our favorite brands, and I can understand championing your team, but to "have it in" for a particular brand is weird. Even those who hate Bose, I can only half-understand their animosity because Bose users seem to enjoy their equipment, and who cares what other gear another guy has. And Emotiva is nothing like Bose, in fact, in electronics it is practically the anti-Bose. Their sub isn't an output monster, but it does perform at about the level you would expect for its price and specs, and you would have to look pretty carefully for better bass performance from a 15" cube at it's price point.
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post #100 of 383
2/3/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

What I can't understand is why some people hold 'grudges' against speakers and subwoofers? Of course, we all have our favorite brands, and I can understand championing your team, but to "have it in" for a particular brand is weird. Even those who hate Bose, I can only half-understand their animosity because Bose users seem to enjoy their equipment, and who cares what other gear another guy has. And Emotiva is nothing like Bose, in fact, in electronics it is practically the anti-Bose. Their sub isn't an output monster, but it does perform at about the level you would expect for its price and specs, and you would have to look pretty carefully for better bass performance from a 15" cube at it's price point.

+1 oh wise one
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post #101 of 383
2/3/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by volfan dhp View Post

Mojo, in my OP I stated that I wanted to hear good and bad about X-ref. I am willing to hear all. That said this thread went downhill fast and even I got upset. I apologize to all for my long winded rant a day or two ago, well almost all. One person managed to get under my skin. But I'm pretty sure that was his intention. It worked. Won't again. I got it out of my system.

Volfan, you're fairly new to this forum. What you will come to find is that the folks who hang around here are very intense about the subject of bass and the bass performance of subs. Debates get quite lively and occasionally heated. Please don't take any of it personally because hopefully it shouldn't be intended that way. Sometimes smaller subs get picked on and bigger subs are sometimes glorified, but it all should be for the sake of information exchange and fun. These are only just bass boxes we are talking about here.
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post #102 of 383
2/3/12 at 1:22pm
Some of the bashing on here has been interesting. I have seen a lot of people push members in specific areas for other brands and then turn and bash Emotiva. I had 2 Ultra 12's which certainly had its strengths above a pair of Outlaws I have on loan currently. The Outlaws get lower for sure, but sound muddy where the Ultra 12's are incredibly detailed. I am not trying to make this an X vs Y but the numbers do not always tell the tale as everyones environment is different.

Its easy to bash one brand and praise another but until you have heard them both its not an easy call.

Unfortunately I can not comment in the quality of the X-Ref but on the Ultra 12's the detail with these subs and the accuracy was nothing short of outstanding.
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post #103 of 383
2/3/12 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBrandon View Post

Some of the bashing on here has been interesting. I have seen a lot of people push members in specific areas for other brands and then turn and bash Emotiva. I had 2 Ultra 12's which certainly had its strengths above a pair of Outlaws I have on loan currently. The Outlaws get lower for sure, but sound muddy where the Ultra 12's are incredibly detailed. I am not trying to make this an X vs Y but the numbers do not always tell the tale as everyones environment is different.

Its easy to bash one brand and praise another but until you have heard them both its not an easy call.

Unfortunately I can not comment in the quality of the X-Ref but on the Ultra 12's the detail with these subs and the accuracy was nothing short of outstanding.

Notice that the Ultra 12's seemed to get more love in their general category than the X-ref. I think that was because much more was expected from the newer, more powerful, and more expensive X-ref, but tests showed it to have little improvement in low end performance and a compromised upper range to boot. The older Ultra 12's appeared to offer a better performance/$$$ ratio especially at the frequent sale prices it was offered at.

When one model replaces another and costs more, reduction in certain aspects of the performance is not well accepted. If that seems like bashing, it is not. It is simply a statement about the test data.
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post #104 of 383
2/3/12 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by volfan dhp View Post

Don't know if that qualifies as bashing. Auditor I appreciate you standing up for X-ref, but your confrontational style isn't conducive to a good discussion on this subs strengths and weaknesses. I wanted other peoples thoughts on X-ref, agreeing or not. It did somewhat turn into bashing but part of that is your defensive nature and unwillingness to listen to fair and honest opinions offered by others. Of course it didn't help that first critic on this thread did bash it. Cel had reasonable criticism of it. I for one am open to honest critiques and opinions.

I've been posting in the AVS forum for a long time, I can tell you now, everyone will get defensive if you attack the sub they own.
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post #105 of 383
2/3/12 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


I've been posting in the AVS forum for a long time, I can tell you now, everyone will get defensive if you attack the sub they own.

I just felt that the tone of thread got out of control there for a while. One poster in particular seemed to feed off of your defensiveness. Well at least until he resorted to childish taunting. What really bothered me was I'm not sure any of them have actually heard the X-ref. Do you think it would be any better if we started an Official X-ref owners thread?
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post #106 of 383
2/3/12 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by volfan dhp View Post


I just felt that the tone of thread got out of control there for a while. One poster in particular seemed to feed off of your defensiveness. Well at least until he resorted to childish taunting. What really bothered me was I'm not sure any of them have actually heard the X-ref. Do you think it would be any better if we started an Official X-ref owners thread?

I think you should. The only other thread about the xref seemed to scare off any xref owners
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post #107 of 383
2/4/12 at 6:08am
re: "bashing".

stating fact isn't "bashing", as painful as facts may be to some...
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post #108 of 383
2/4/12 at 6:18am
Sometimes providing facts about a product that are in conflict with someone's beliefs is wrongly interpreted as bashing. One of the facts about the X-Ref is it's internal volume is too small so it cannot go low (20 Hz or so) at a useful level. It also is overpriced for what it is. For music it is probably adequate but is overpriced for just a music sub.
If it meets your needs then enjoy it.
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post #109 of 383
2/4/12 at 6:32am
For those interested in the X-ref 12, please note that there is a -$100 Audioholics special currently running. Just enter "audioholics" in the coupon box at checkout and get the $100 off. That makes for a considerably better value than the list price.
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post #110 of 383
2/4/12 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I've been posting in the AVS forum for a long time, I can tell you now, everyone will get defensive if you attack the sub they own.

Say it ain't so! The guy who is on every other thread criticizing and judging the choice others make is vigorously defending his choice. How do I link this thread to all the Epik threads?
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post #111 of 383
2/4/12 at 3:25pm
This thread could be summarized as below. I dont mind any rebuttals as long as they are civil.

This is the performance



And this $699 is the price. That is the problem. I doubt if a $100 rebate would cut it.

This is $499. Sure there is no third party measurement but to the best of my knowledge, no one has challenged that spec yet.



This is another performance


and this is the price



Again, there is no third party measurement but to the best of my knowledge, no one has challenged that FR yet.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #112 of 383
2/4/12 at 4:34pm
I bought 2 Ultra 12's at the $329 closeout. I haven't had a chance to use them other than to make sure they work. I knew they didn't go very deep, but I wanted something smallish that I could carry without too much trouble and I have a wife and 3 young kids that would be scared by super low bass. Not everyone wants only to hit low frequencies.

I agree that for $699, there are many better options. I think it should be priced at $549 with free shipping and go on sale for $499 from time to time. I think pricing it at $429 is way too low. It's at least $100 better than the Ultra 12.
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post #113 of 383
2/4/12 at 4:36pm
Svsounds, FR plots tend to be pretty accurate if not conservative at times. While the Emotiva subs may not perform as expected, I still commend them for submitting their subs to Audioholics for testing
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post #114 of 383
2/4/12 at 5:06pm
I guess Epik, SVS and Rythmik should also submit their 12" sealed and ported subs for review at Audioholics. It will only add more credibility to their measurement. I have only seen the specs for the Legend but not the FR. But again no one has yet challenged their specs or the FR of SB12 or F12/FV12.
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post #115 of 383
2/4/12 at 8:16pm
I use to be the owner of two Xref-12's and they are decent subs, maybe not at the price EMo is currently asking. For $50 more you can get a SVS pb12-nsd and that sub has almost a ruler flat frequency response and will get to 20hz at 100db from what sound and vision recently measured.

I have since sold one of the Xref and replaced it with a SVS. The other one is up for sale and will also be replaced with a SVS.
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post #116 of 383
2/5/12 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Sometimes providing facts about a product that are in conflict with someone's beliefs is wrongly interpreted as bashing. One of the facts about the X-Ref is it's internal volume is too small so it cannot go low (20 Hz or so) at a useful level. It also is overpriced for what it is. For music it is probably adequate but is overpriced for just a music sub.
If it meets your needs then enjoy it.

SPECIAL POSTING RULES

Hello...

Based on recent and past issues in this area we need to now make mention of what we will be watching for.

Please understand first and foremost that speakers are subjective. Meaning...what I may like, you may not. We do not hear things in the same way, nor do we have the same room setup or gear. Thus speakers are a subjective breed.

When we see posts like "This vs. That" this just screams of issues to come. Always have, always will. You see, people will defend what they own. No one wants to think they could have better of this or that of the money paid. They tend to want to think that they made the best choice and will defend that when they see someone putting down what they may own. This happens time and time again. Not only in this forum area, but others as well.

Now we have a large following of a few brands on this site...this tends to also cause issues when posts are made to the negative about the brand. This is because of this following of users. But please remember their are other speaker owners here. I personally have Infinity but you do not see me pushing what I own on others. Why? Because I know they may not like them as I do. Are their better? Sure! I know that. But I like what I have just as you like what you have.

So please....help others with their requests without pushing, promoting, or casting judgment on others or other brands. This should be a support type area...not a promoting area.

So in thinking along these lines we ask...Please No More Threads such as....

"I just bought "blank" and they are the best"
"I have my "blank" on order"
"Another Happy "blank" customer"

...and other threads along these lines. They will be closed or removed.

Threads such as..."This vs. That" will be CLOSELY MONITORED and if they go the wrong direction...either it will be closed, removed, or offending threads removed. If the thread is nothing more than a post clearly to provoke...and yes you sometimes can tell...it will just be removed.

I hope you can understand what we are looking to do here...we are looking to get back to support and lessen the personal attacks and promotions that have been made of late. Support and help are the keys here. Go out and listen before you buy is always the BEST advice.

Thank you all....we do what we can as we can as you know. Sorry we, I, have let this area go down hill. For this I apologize to you all. [Mr. David Bott]

I think he makes it clear, what is bashing and what he doesn't want in this forum that many of you are engaged. It seems I' am in compliance with the forum rules and you are not.
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post #117 of 383
2/5/12 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

re: "bashing".

stating fact isn't "bashing", as painful as facts may be to some...

See my above to determine if you are in violation of forum rules.
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post #118 of 383
2/5/12 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

Say it ain't so! The guy who is on every other thread criticizing and judging the choice others make is vigorously defending his choice. How do I link this thread to all the Epik threads?

Most times I don't know what sub a person owns. You don't find me saying things about a particular brands of subs and that's the issue. I follow the forums rules as set forth by Mr. David Bott.

I believe in discussing Audio Video Science, I'm not on an ego trip, like many seem to be when it comes to subs.
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post #119 of 383
2/5/12 at 5:27am
Simply put, we probably didn't break any rules as you quoted they care monitor "these" types of threads...it hasn't been closed
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post #120 of 383
2/5/12 at 5:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by volfan dhp View Post

I just felt that the tone of thread got out of control there for a while. One poster in particular seemed to feed off of your defensiveness. Well at least until he resorted to childish taunting. What really bothered me was I'm not sure any of them have actually heard the X-ref. Do you think it would be any better if we started an Official X-ref owners thread?

You can start an official X-Ref thread, but judging by other official threads, it won't necessariy keep the haters, bashers and trolls away.
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