Options for Recording After DVDR's Are Gone - Page 3

I agree with the assessment on the streaming boxes, there is no one-size-fits-all option.

As far as archival to DVD or BRD or HDD, my initial understanding is that AVCHD is becoming the de-facto standard, offering better H.264 compression for both HD and SD content, which can easily be NAS streamed from a hard disk, or burned as MP4 files to standard DVDs or BluRay discs for playback on modern BluRay players. At least, that is where my initial research is headed.

[Discussion moved from the "Unsettled DVD Recorder Market" thread]


I found these 2 Avermedia products:

http://www.amazon.com/AVERMEDIA-C281...ref=pd_sim_e_1
Pros: does not require a computer to operate.
Cons: doesn't appear to have composite/s-video inputs, and it appears to only record in avi format

http://www.amazon.com/AVERMEDIA-AVER...sr=1-1-catcorr
This looks to have both component and composite/s-video inputs, but it only appears to encode h.264, not mpeg2.

From what I understand, h.264 compression is superior to mpeg2 in terms of quality and space used, yet it can only be played on modern blu-ray players, whether they be standard DVD discs, or BD-Rs. Still looking for something that encodes mpeg2 natively, without the need for re-encoding/conversion, but I suspect that any device with HD component inputs probably won't.

Using the avi format isn't really a con. Windows DVD Maker can create dvd's from avi files. I've done this with my Windows 7 machines. It's fairly easy and it works really well.

It may be easy, but any re-encoding will be another lossy step, plus add more processing time and power needed to do the conversion. With a high volume load of captured content, that conversion step would be time prohibitive and likely qualitatively detrimental.

It probably still looks better than what a dvd recorder burns.

Sadly, if you don't want to burn avi or h.264 files to dvd, you don't have many options anymore. You can just do what I do and keep stuff on external hdd's. I've been using WMC to record ota programing and I've been happy with the results. A couple of 2tb external hdd's (one back-up) take up a lot less space than discs do. Nowadays, anybody who is serious about recording tv has either a htpc/WMC extender or Tivo connected to at least one of their sets. That's just the way things are and it's not going to get any better in the future.

There are still plenty of reasons to have other portable media options besides HDD. One of which is long car trips, for our kids to watch their shows on their portable DVD players. That is just one reason and only barely scratches the surface.

I really shouldn't even have mentioned the potential quality losses with re-encoding. The real issue with me is the extra time and effort in doing the conversions when dealing with a high volume of recordings.

You're at a different point in life than I am. I remember those days of having the kids watch movies while on long drives. Now, they better be looking at the road since they're driving on their own!

As far as time, nothing beats the high speed burning feature of a dvd w/hdd recorder. But by the time I get grandchildren, there won't be many (if any) units like these around. So I'm already moving on. Burning a couple of dvd's a week is now about all I need to do, so using pc-based solutions work just fine. And I still have my Panny to burn stuff off of my Dish dvr.

Put this together after combing through manuals of some of the products I've been looking at recently.

Feel free to suggest any other products to add to this chart, or other features. I focused on the features that were important to me.

	Hauppauge	Hauppauge	AverMedia	AverMedia	AverMedia
	Colossus	1212 PVR	Game Capture C281	DarkCrystal HD C874	HD Capture Card C027
Type	PCIe	Ext USB	Standalone	Ext USB	PCIe
HDMI input	yes	no	no	no	yes
Component Input	shared*	yes	yes	yes	yes
Component Passthru	yes	yes	yes	yes	no
Composite/SVideo Input	shared* / no	yes / yes	no	yes	yes
Optical audio input/passthru	yes	yes	no	no	no
Bitrates	1Mb - 20Mb	1Mb - 13.5Mb	3Mb - 15Mb (3 settings)	6Mb - 10Mb	? Adjustable
Resolutions	480i 480p 720p 1080i	480i 480p 720p 1080i	480i 480p 720p 1080i	480i 480p 720p 1080i	480i 480p 720p 1080i
HD Encoding Formats	H.264	H.264	H.264	H.264	H.264 / MPEG2
SD Encoding Formats	H.264	H.264	H.264	H.264	H.264 / MPEG2
File Container Formats	avchd/.ts m2ts avi	avchd/ts m2ts avi	avi	avchd/.ts	.ts avi wmv mpg
Audio Encoding Format	ac3 2.0 5.1	ac3 2.0 5.1	mp3 2.0	?	?
Hardware/Software Encoding	hardware	hardware	hardware	hardware	software
Storage / Burning	PC / AVCHD DVD	PC / AVCHD DVD	INT/EXT HDD	PC / AVCHD DVD	PC / MPEG DVD
IR blaster	yes	yes	no	yes	no
Remote	yes	yes	yes	no	no

*shared means that in order to connect a composite video cable, you must use the blue connector of the component input.

Great chart dare2be. Thanks for taking the time to create it!

That's a good matrix but you might add frame rate and audio bitrate.

scott s.
.

Remuxing from avi doesn't necessarily require re-encoding. AVIDemux can copy the video and audio streams to various containers.

I use MakeMKV which rips DVD-video (such as Funai-written disks) to MKV files and it only copies the streams (one MKV file per title). But I will also re-encode at times using encoders in Handbrake to AVC/AAC to get better compression than MPEG2 MP@ML/AC3.

You can always use DVD disks as data disks to hold MKVs or MP4s.

scott s.
.

I would have, if I could have found that info in the downloaded manuals...

I have an idea I'd like people's opinion on...

I have a Roku that I use to stream Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc. It has composite outputs and an HDMI output. I suspect that even if I bought one of the PC-based recorders from the grid above, I wouldn't be able to use the HDMI input to record from the Roku due to HDCP issues.

So, assuming I'm using a Hauppauge 1212, what do you think would be the best final result as far as quality goes:

1. Connect the Roku composite out to the 1212 and record SD AVCHD/H.264 directly

2. Record the Roku composite out signal onto a Mag recorder's HDD in HQ mode, and then use its upconvert circuitry and connect its component outputs to the 1212 to record in upconverted pseudo-HD?

With option 2, would I just end up with a resultant file that is larger but of no significant quality improvement?

EDIT: Is anyone with these pieces of equipment willing to do any comparison tests?

yep.

I didn't think the Roku composite out would record to the Mag HDD. Hmmm. I have an old one that I may play with - I remember trying to record when I first got the maggie, but maybe something else was set differently. The streaming video was not recordable at that time.

Oh, upon re-reading, I guess you're asking about passing through the mag to go to the 1212 where it would be recorded. Guess I got too excited

It would, although you might need a "video filter" in between. There's more information on them in this forum.

No, I did mean to record to the HDD first in HQ mode. I have successfully done the following:

Hulu with no video filter
Amazon with a Sima CopyMaster
Netflix would not record, even with the Copymaster. I haven't tried any other brand of filter, though.

That's good to know, as I've got a Sima, too. I just haven't tried recording from my Roku yet, as there really hasn't been anything I've wanted that badly (I don't have any pay services).

But I have a friend who would really like some of those old silents, like off of Hub-D-Pub.

If they are public domain you should be able to download them from archive.org.

For instance, I got the entire Wonder Years series from Amazon, knowing that there is slim to no chance of it ever being released on DVD/BRD, because of the amount of music rights issues.

Recently I got a bunch of A&E Evening at the Improv episodes from Hulu that I havent seen in almost 20 years.

You mean back when A&E actually showed A&E, and not reality programming

Since I didn't see it in the first post I thought I'd mention that, although I don't know much about them, there are FTA PVR tuner boxes that have atsc recorders built in for the OTA crowd.

Here's a Google Shopping rundown:

https://www.google.com/search?q=fta+...1111l3-2.1l3l0


Also is it certain that the days of the Funai/Magnavox HDD models are over? I saw that JR.com is no longer selling the refurb models anymore which is disappointing...hopefully they'll come back.

Nothing is certain I guess. After being missing for a rather long time, J&R seems to have restocked the Panasonic DMR EH59, which I thought they wold not do again. They no longer LIST the 513/515 referbs, but if another batch show up, you can bet that the listing will reappear.

That is good news! I will hope!



Weird. For some reason that model didn't show up for me when I searched on the site for DVD Recorder but when i used the model number you gave it was there.

It's a shame the Europeans units don't include an atsc tuner in addition to the DVB-T for the North American market. You'd think it'd only add a couple bucks and would enable them to sell the unit in North America.

One or more of more onerous [DRM,Copyright,Patent] liabilities are probably why the land of the free and home of the brave gets fewer offerings.

I do a search for "DVD recorder hdd" and it found that model.

Adding that tuner would make a trivial cost increase to the hardware of the unit, but the software (firmware) would be a programming nightmare. Only one DVD recorder has managed to do it well, and that is the Magnavox 513 and 515 models.

For the sadly desperate videophile-

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...ampaign=DD1224

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...ampaign=EMC279

You created this thread for someone just like me and yes, we are out here.

I'm one of those 'stone-age' people who likes to record a show now and again to a dvd recorder so I can watch it when and where I'd like. Record a few movies off of the tv for my special needs son (specifically because they are edited for tv - many movies have too much crap I'd rather him not watch).

I currently have two dvd recorders; a 4/5 yr old Toshiba DR560 which works perfectly (except for the loud annoying squeal when turned off so it's left on all the time) and a 2 yr old refurbished Magnavox VCR/DVD recorder combo that I bought from J&R and which is now on the fritz on the dvd side.

I refuse to pay money to rent a dvr box from Comcast to record shows. I've mostly migrated to VOD or Hulu/sidereel sites (oh yes, I do miss megavideo) but there are times when 3 shows that I like are on at the same time and it's easy for me to record two of them (one on each recorder), watch the third then when that goes off I can go into another room and watch what I recorded. I'm not locked into multiply dvr rentals because I can just take my dvd into the next room. I don't understand why dvd recorders never really caught on the way the vcr recorders did. It's perplexing.

My question is . . . do I try and replace the fritzy dvd recorder? And with what? I've searched high and low and there is hardly anything out there. I did have my eye on the Magnavox DVR/DVD (513H) recorder from Walmart. It just went up $30 since yesterday (it's now $250) and $50 in the past 6 weeks or so. I probably should have bought it when it was cheaper but . . who knew? And will I pay $250 just to have the thing break in a few years . . just after the $30/3 yr extended warranty expires? Oh and the tv in our bedroom uses a dta (from Comcast, no On Demand box, just the cable channesl) that only has coax in/out, which means I have to find a dvd recorder with a tuner in order to record from the dta. Although I was wondering if I bought a non-coax recorder couldn't I just use the fritzy dvd recorder's coax in then rca out to the new recorder? I am a geek-less type but understand enough if its explained clearly. I did figure out how to record one show while watching another in our family room (all hail the a/b video switch!) but again, that recorder has a tuner and when that machines goes . . . Almost puts me into a panic and makes me want to go out and buy up like 5 dvd recorders while I still can! lol

Where do you all find a selection of dvd recorders? I look in the usual places . . . Walmart, Amazon, Target, Best Buy. I'm extremely reluctant to purchase another refurbished anything (like I did from J&R) because . . . two years? really? or am I expecting too much in thinking these things will last any longer than that? And in two years . . . will dvd players, let alone recorders, even exist?

Thanks for any not-too-technical-but-rather-in-simplified-laymens-speak advice/info anyone can offer.

It's a long story, but basically those cable DVRs you and the rest of us here despise were embraced by most of America. They have limitations, but most of those limitations are seen by us who use and appreciate DVD recorders, and aren't even on the radar for your average Joe who just wants to set the recording, watch it, and delete it.

Yeah, average Joe could have used a TVGOS DVD recorder, but he didn't. DVD recorders, while not that complicated, were incrementally more complex than VCRs (which were the only way to record when it was king.) DVRs were seen as "good enough" and DVD recorders were "HOW DO I WORK THIS BLASTED THING!?"


That might work. If you get video from it to a TV, a DVD recorder will also see it.


Two years is pretty much the norm for most electronics in this miserable age of planned obsolescence, with a couple of (expensive) exceptions. But most of the refurbed 513s and such aren't actually refurbs, they're just returns from people who couldn't figure them out. Lots of reports of new or near new units from J&R, who couldn't sell them as new since they were opened.


Yes, probably as Blu-ray players, but those have always played DVDs. Discs aren't going anywhere anytime soon, just the ability to record.