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Wii U - Page 11  

post #301 of 1142
Honestly I think the marketing is focusing too much on the 'asymmetric' gameplay elements (though let's be clear...non-gamers, who make non-insignificant number of the Wii's customer base, may be new to the idea). The gamepad is clearly the order of business here, and I think it can be put to good use. So many games feature map-screens, customization systems and so forth that it automatically would succeed with that alone. The ability to move content down to the device on some games is also a big deal that I think could be a system seller in some circles. For families that have one living room TV, being able to let the kids keep playing when dad wants to watch the game or mom wants to watch Ellen could be a major selling point.
post #302 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Nah, he's not a straight up troll, but there's a nasty, condescending edge to his posts that I don't appreciate. This is AVS, it's supposed to be civilized. There are plenty of other forums where letting the beast out is tolerated, even encouraged.
Pretty much. He's no troll. He's just got a bad attitude. I'm generally pretty tolerant, but he's been especially angry and nasty lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizarDru View Post

Honestly I think the marketing is focusing too much on the 'asymmetric' gameplay elements (though let's be clear...non-gamers, who make non-insignificant number of the Wii's customer base, may be new to the idea). The gamepad is clearly the order of business here, and I think it can be put to good use. So many games feature map-screens, customization systems and so forth that it automatically would succeed with that alone. The ability to move content down to the device on some games is also a big deal that I think could be a system seller in some circles. For families that have one living room TV, being able to let the kids keep playing when dad wants to watch the game or mom wants to watch Ellen could be a major selling point.
Yup. "Asymmetric" gameplay has been a part of gaming for a long time. Hell, even Combat on the Atari 2600 had "asymmetric" multiplayer. So did a few other Atari games IIRC, and many console games in the intervening years. Seems like a surefire way to unnecessarily confuse your audience with a clunky word.

Maybe Nintendo thought that they'd already talked enough about the GamePad at last year's E3, so there was no need this year. But if you're approaching launch, it seems you would want to emphasize your biggest "hook." Also, it's crazy that people (like mainstream journalists) still think the Wii U is a peripheral for the Wii. Something clearly went wrong with Nintendo's messaging. eek.gif
post #303 of 1142
I think they're doing the best they can with what little they have. They can't have clear messaging if they don't have a clear strategy or an exciting product.
post #304 of 1142
Finally a spot of good news: Reportedly, Nintendo expects all first-party games (at least) will be 1080p. And Nintendo's not one to ding frame rate at the cost of beauty, either, so I'd expect 30fps minimum.
post #305 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think they're doing the best they can with what little they have. They can't have clear messaging if they don't have a clear strategy or an exciting product.
But it is an exciting product. The GamePad could be brilliant. Focusing on anything else is just a distraction.

The problem N is now facing is that they lost sense of what audience they're after. They built another family-friendly console, and they're trying to sell it to hardcore gamers. Makes for confused messaging.
post #306 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think they're doing the best they can with what little they have. They can't have clear messaging if they don't have a clear strategy or an exciting product.

They had the same problem with the Wii. Then once people got to play it, people liked it and bought it. Similar to how people were disappointed with the Wii U after the e3 conference, but liked it after playing it on the show floor. Maybe it's just time for you to move on from Nintendo. You are consistently looking for some silly reasons to hate on them.
post #307 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think they're doing the best they can with what little they have. They can't have clear messaging if they don't have a clear strategy or an exciting product.
But it is an exciting product. The GamePad could be brilliant. Focusing on anything else is just a distraction.

The problem N is now facing is that they lost sense of what audience they're after. They built another family-friendly console, and they're trying to sell it to hardcore gamers. Makes for confused messaging.

Is the gamepad really family friendly though? I was able to play the wii with my mother in law, who has never played a game in her life. She was able to handle tennis just fine, but struggled a bit with bowling, the way you had to hold a single button down and release it. A single button! If I showed her the gamepad, she'd probably recoil in horror.

I think they genuinely want it to be great for hardcore and casual gamers....but I don't think any platform can serve one audience well without alienating the other. No matter how high minded we want to be about who is or isn't a gamer....these distinctions exist, and they matter. Perhaps it's not fair to say its not an exciting product....but I think it is fair to say that the product itself is confused. I don't think it's merely a matter of messaging/marketing.
post #308 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think they're doing the best they can with what little they have. They can't have clear messaging if they don't have a clear strategy or an exciting product.

They had the same problem with the Wii. Then once people got to play it, people liked it and bought it. Similar to how people were disappointed with the Wii U after the e3 conference, but liked it after playing it on the show floor. Maybe it's just time for you to move on from Nintendo. You are consistently looking for some silly reasons to hate on them.

I don't remember there being a ton of skepticism with the Wii. I remember incredible excitement, lines to play it dwarfing everything else at e3 2006. Mainstream media tripping over themselves to feature it. This really doesn't have the same feel as the original Wii.
post #309 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I don't remember there being a ton of skepticism with the Wii. I remember incredible excitement, lines to play it dwarfing everything else at e3 2006. Mainstream media tripping over themselves to feature it. This really doesn't have the same feel as the original Wii.

You're talking about two different things. Nintendo did a poor job with the Wii before people got to try it. It was messages about not focusing on powerful hardware and how they could potentially alienate third parties with their new design. They showed the console without the wiimotes before showing the control scheme.

Certainly the Wii U isn't the revolutionary concept the Wii was, but it's similar in that the hands-on impressions are better than what Nintendo has given us.

As a side note, the Wii U showed up on Amazon.de

647
post #310 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I don't remember there being a ton of skepticism with the Wii. I remember incredible excitement, lines to play it dwarfing everything else at e3 2006. Mainstream media tripping over themselves to feature it. This really doesn't have the same feel as the original Wii.

You're talking about two different things. Nintendo did a poor job with the Wii before people got to try it. It was messages about not focusing on powerful hardware and how they could potentially alienate third parties with their new design. They showed the console without the wiimotes before showing the control scheme.

Certainly the Wii U isn't the revolutionary concept the Wii was, but it's similar in that the hands-on impressions are certainly better than what Nintendo has given us.

What I've heard from the journalists I trust that went hands on is very guarded praise. You get that with most previews to begin with. I haven't seen much gushing or genuine excitement, what ive read was more along the lines of "hey, this is neat, could be fun". None of it really changed my opinion from the press conference.

Mario looked like another 2D Mario, pikmin looked like another pikmin, nintendo land looked like a solid mini game collection. None of it looked bad, but it didn't seem like there was anything amazing lurking under the surface. Unless I missed something?
post #311 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I don't remember there being a ton of skepticism with the Wii. I remember incredible excitement, lines to play it dwarfing everything else at e3 2006. Mainstream media tripping over themselves to feature it. This really doesn't have the same feel as the original Wii.
Gaming media and players were incredibly skeptical and dismissive. IIRC mainstream media didn't care until just before launch (mostly thanks to a massive media blitz by Nintendo).
post #312 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What I've heard from the journalists I trust that went hands on is very guarded praise. You get that with most previews to begin with. I haven't seen much gushing or genuine excitement, what ive read was more along the lines of "hey, this is neat, could be fun". None of it really changed my opinion from the press conference.
Mario looked like another 2D Mario, pikmin looked like another pikmin, nintendo land looked like a solid mini game collection. None of it looked bad, but it didn't seem like there was anything amazing lurking under the surface. Unless I missed something?

They said it was fun. Considering it's a video game console, that's all that really matters. Reaching this status of "amazing" isn't really a core requirement. If you don't like Nintendo franchises, then there probably isn't anything there for you.
post #313 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What I've heard from the journalists I trust that went hands on is very guarded praise. You get that with most previews to begin with. I haven't seen much gushing or genuine excitement, what ive read was more along the lines of "hey, this is neat, could be fun". None of it really changed my opinion from the press conference.
Mario looked like another 2D Mario, pikmin looked like another pikmin, nintendo land looked like a solid mini game collection. None of it looked bad, but it didn't seem like there was anything amazing lurking under the surface. Unless I missed something?

They said it was fun. Considering it's a video game console, that's all that really matters. Reaching this status of "amazing" isn't really a core requirement. If you don't like Nintendo franchises, then there probably isn't anything there for you.

I am a Nintendo fan. You want a list of my fanboy credentials?

Honestly, you don't think they could have done a lot better? What is it that you saw that makes you want to run out and buy a new console?
post #314 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monger View Post

They said it was fun. Considering it's a video game console, that's all that really matters. Reaching this status of "amazing" isn't really a core requirement. If you don't like Nintendo franchises, then there probably isn't anything there for you.
If I want fun I'll get a SNES emulator. Amazing is a requirement for anything over $100.
post #315 of 1142
I'm kinda on board with bd2003 here. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do remember everyone being skeptical of the Wii--that is, until the controller was unveiled and then demonstrated, at which point it seemed like a true game-changer. I don't think anyone (including Nintendo) predicted the smash hit it would become for the next three or four years, but I think excitement was pretty high that we were getting something new and different, and possibly landscape-changing. (If anything, much of the pre-launch criticism was focused on the name.)

By contrast, the Wii U doesn't seem anywhere near as revolutionary, and seems more an evolution of existing ideas. Unlike its predecessor, it seems novel or neat, rather than exciting. I've said it before, but I believe people "bought" the Wii, in every sense of the word, because it felt like THE FUTURE. Reaction to the Wii U, meanwhile, is more "eh, maybe it could be interesting." I think part of the problem is that the Wii U carries the psychological baggage of the original Wii--notice how people are far less charitable to Nintendo Land than they were to Wii Sports. We've bitterly learned that such tech demo minigame collections will just lead to more tech demo minigame collections, not deeper experiences.

More than that, the Wii U feels desperate. The original Wii was no less desperate a bid, but that (coupled with the DS) still managed to feel like an honest effort to take gaming someplace more interesting than slightly shinier graphics every five years. The Wii U, though, feels like damage control, catch-up, that (coupled with the 3DS) feels overly reliant on a gimmick to stand out.

Or is it just me that sees things this way?
post #316 of 1142
Nintendo has already achieved one thing w/ WiiU...guys like us are talking about it. Maybe not gushing with total fanboy gusto...but we are at least intrigued & want to know more.

I'd imagine another info dump on WiiU is due soon - and I think that some self-reflection on the big N's part regarding this year's E3 presenation will occur & likely lead to more of the stuff "we" want to know featured in future announcements/demos.

Have I reserved a WiiU already? No. But even at this point, I do see myself possibly getting one. That possibility will be firmed up one eay or the other as we learn more about the system, its cost and what not. I know that from what my kids have seen, they think it's pretty cool.

One hope I have is that all that Rock Band DLC I bought over the years on the Wii can be played on WiiU - I mean, those tracks are considered Wii Shop purchases that are delivered via Ninty's servers, so why the hell not?
post #317 of 1142
I feel like the difference between the Wii U and previous Nintendo consoles, is that the hardware isn't really an object of desire in and of itself. It's more of a barrier to entry. I don't see the future in it, I see the past. And their current software lineup mirrored that.

I'd still be willing to jump that hurdle with the right enticement on the other side, whereas previously I'd leap out of blind faith.
post #318 of 1142
Oh, I'm definitely going to buy one, I know I will. Most likely at launch, even it it looks like it's going to completely tank. I mean, I want to play Pikmin and Mario, possibly Zombie U, and whatever Zelda and Metroids, etc. come out (and I want to finish Xenoblade Chronicles, if nothing else). I just wish I felt more excited about it, or even optimistic. So far I'm not finding much of a reason.
post #319 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo View Post

I'm kinda on board with bd2003 here. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do remember everyone being skeptical of the Wii--that is, until the controller was unveiled and then demonstrated, at which point it seemed like a true game-changer. I don't think anyone (including Nintendo) predicted the smash hit it would become for the next three or four years, but I think excitement was pretty high that we were getting something new and different, and possibly landscape-changing. (If anything, much of the pre-launch criticism was focused on the name.)
By contrast, the Wii U doesn't seem anywhere near as revolutionary, and seems more an evolution of existing ideas. Unlike its predecessor, it seems novel or neat, rather than exciting. I've said it before, but I believe people "bought" the Wii, in every sense of the word, because it felt like THE FUTURE. Reaction to the Wii U, meanwhile, is more "eh, maybe it could be interesting." I think part of the problem is that the Wii U carries the psychological baggage of the original Wii--notice how people are far less charitable to Nintendo Land than they were to Wii Sports. We've bitterly learned that such tech demo minigame collections will just lead to more tech demo minigame collections, not deeper experiences.
More than that, the Wii U feels desperate. The original Wii was no less desperate a bid, but that (coupled with the DS) still managed to feel like an honest effort to take gaming someplace more interesting than slightly shinier graphics every five years. The Wii U, though, feels like damage control, catch-up, that (coupled with the 3DS) feels overly reliant on a gimmick to stand out.
Or is it just me that sees things this way?

No. I pounced on them after their e3 conference. I think they were trying too hard to push Nintendo Land as the next Wii Sports when it's not. It will be a fun collection of games for the family, but it's not on that same level.

I don't think they are desperate though. They must feel good because they are still keeping a lot to themselves. Many third parties won't talk about what they have coming. Nintendo hasn't shown us anything from their big studios past launch. We don't have much for details of online play. It's obvious companies don't care about e3 anymore as much as we think they should. All Nintendo had to do is throw up a quick demo of Zelda, 3d Mario, or whatever Retro is working on and then the whole conversation would have been different.
Edited by Monger - 6/21/12 at 10:42am
post #320 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I feel like the difference between the Wii U and previous Nintendo consoles, is that the hardware isn't really an object of desire in and of itself. It's more of a barrier to entry. I don't see the future in it, I see the past. And their current software lineup mirrored that.
I'd still be willing to jump that hurdle with the right enticement on the other side, whereas previously I'd leap out of blind faith.
I see what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree...but I also think that Nintendo is trying to please all parties this time out, which is something of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' proposition. A lot of people took Nintendo to task for launching the Wii without a Mario game in the 'launch window' (a term I'm really growing to hate, btw). So now they're launching one, but in doing so they're being derivative. Sure, you can be innovative AND do that, but the wiggle room is much smaller in the audience's eyes.

The Wii U is NOT setting the world on fire the way the original Wii did...and that's partly because the marketing message is so mixed, this time out. The choice of Wii U for a name alone is, IMHO, a mistake. But then, it was widely assumed the name 'Wii' alone would be a signal to failure last time out. I don't think Nintendo was so surprised that the Wii was a success, either. Remember all that talk of 'Blue Ocean Strategy'? Nintendo was very specifically targeting an audience that, in 2006, was underserved. They were working to restoring the video game console to the family room where everyone could play it. In a way, they were recapturing the whole notion of Pong....it was something virtually everybody had (or knew someone who had) and it appealed across generations.

We all got excited about the Wii originally because it promised games that couldn't be played any other way...and it created an experience that was DIFFERENT. Rock band did something similar. And it got people to play the games who hadn't been interested in doing so. The Wii U, however...well, it suggests a lot of neat gameplay functions, but only ZombiU really suggests a more sophisticated use of the controller. Nintendo has a LOT of hurdles to clear, here: an online presence that actually doesn't suck, hardware that can compete two years after launch, compelling third-party games and so on.

What's most frustrating is when Nintendo makes these boneheaded moves that seem nonsensical to us, because they have a different plan than we do. Stuff like Friend Codes. Stuff like making a console in 2012 that suggests a power level of 2009. Stuff like NOT MAKING LUIGIS MANSION ON THE WII USING A GODDAMNED CONTROLLER LIKE A FLASHLIGHT/VACUUM CLEANER WHICH WAS THE MOST OBVIOUS THING IN THE )(*$#)#(*$#*($#_)((*%

Sorry, lost it there. You get my point.
post #321 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizarDru 
What's most frustrating is when Nintendo makes these boneheaded moves that seem nonsensical to us, because they have a different plan than we do. Stuff like Friend Codes. Stuff like making a console in 2012 that suggests a power level of 2009. Stuff like NOT MAKING LUIGIS MANSION ON THE WII USING A GODDAMNED CONTROLLER LIKE A FLASHLIGHT/VACUUM CLEANER WHICH WAS THE MOST OBVIOUS THING IN THE )(*$#)#(*$#*($#_)((*%

Sorry, lost it there. You get my point.

I couldn't agree more! Having said that, I hope you played the Ghostbusters Wi game... I've played through it so many times now I can recite lines like I can from the movies (I am, indeed, a GB nerd), but it reminds me how much Ninty could/should have done with 'Weegie if they had just tried a bit. And I do mean quite literally, a bit. Just port the damn game to Wii, it can't have be that hard...


Another thought, relevant to the topic: What happens if Nintendo -in their quest to keep WiiU's retail price attractive- doesn't pack in a game, or a second controller/Wiimote, etc? Think the value of the system drops when would-be customers have to shell out $49.99 for a game just to turn the thing on and do anything? Or is the Wii's massive (albeit declining) base going to accept the wallet drain willingly and just be happy they can use their pile of Wiimotes, balance boards, classic controllers, etc.?
post #322 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoozen View Post

Another thought, relevant to the topic: What happens if Nintendo -in their quest to keep WiiU's retail price attractive- doesn't pack in a game, or a second controller/Wiimote, etc? Think the value of the system drops when would-be customers have to shell out $49.99 for a game just to turn the thing on and do anything? Or is the Wii's massive (albeit declining) base going to accept the wallet drain willingly and just be happy they can use their pile of Wiimotes, balance boards, classic controllers, etc.?

I can't imagine for a second that the Wii U won't come with a pack-in game (almost certainly NintendoLand). Nintendo has always launched with a game and I see no reason to expect they'd stop now. They may end up selling the Wii U at a loss (in fact, I'd wager they almost certainly will), but they would never sell it naked. I think the only console that ever launched without a bundled game was the Xbox 360, right?
post #323 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizarDru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoozen View Post

Another thought, relevant to the topic: What happens if Nintendo -in their quest to keep WiiU's retail price attractive- doesn't pack in a game, or a second controller/Wiimote, etc? Think the value of the system drops when would-be customers have to shell out $49.99 for a game just to turn the thing on and do anything? Or is the Wii's massive (albeit declining) base going to accept the wallet drain willingly and just be happy they can use their pile of Wiimotes, balance boards, classic controllers, etc.?

I can't imagine for a second that the Wii U won't come with a pack-in game (almost certainly NintendoLand). Nintendo has always launched with a game and I see no reason to expect they'd stop now. They may end up selling the Wii U at a loss (in fact, I'd wager they almost certainly will), but they would never sell it naked. I think the only console that ever launched without a bundled game was the Xbox 360, right?

The n64 and GameCube didn't launch with a pack in. Nor did any portable but the original gameboy + tetris. Neither did any Playstation, or any Xbox.

Pack-ins are still the exception, not the rule, even for Nintendo.
post #324 of 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The n64 and GameCube didn't launch with a pack in. Nor did any portable but the original gameboy + tetris. Neither did any Playstation, or any Xbox.
Pack-ins are still the exception, not the rule, even for Nintendo.

Agreed. Except:

Everything that plays games on the market today comes with a game off the bat, or free downloadable games by the X,000's.

And this is trying to compete.

with Apple. And touchscreens.

And Kinect, 360, PS3, 3DS, Vita bundles.
post #325 of 1142
Yeah...they should def bundle nintendo land, and a wiimote, so everyone can experience their asymmetric MP.
post #326 of 1142
With how successful Wii Sports turned out to be in selling consoles and consumers coming to expect a pack-in (Or even two) when buying a Nintendo console thanks to the Wii, I can't imagine this not being bundled with a game. Bet WizarDru ends up correct and it's bundled with Nintendo Land.
post #327 of 1142
Next to Nintendoland, the only other pack-in possibility would be New Super Mario Bros U. Everything else is either too niche (Pikmin 3), requires a peripheral (Wii Fit U), or is a third-party title.

As much as I'd rather see NSMBU as the pack-in, Nintendoland can't stand on its own two feet without a console to go with it.
post #328 of 1142
I'd put money on Nintendoland being a pack-in and a Wiimote not. This is the same company that will not be including an AC adapter with the 3DS XL under the reasoning that most buyers already have an adapter from the original 3DS. The Wii U will likely already be sold at a loss, so they'll cut costs where they can. Besides, Wiimote support on the Wii U mostly seems to be a concession to attract/placate the millions of current Wii owners who might otherwise feel burned by a mid-cycle console launch; it's not a big selling point to totally new customers so including it in the box seems unnecessary.

Really, anyone who thinks this thing is gonna come packed with a Gamepad, Wiimote, nunchuck and pro controller is dreaming. Since the N64 days, it's sort of been an unspoken rule that as long as a system offers a complete single-player experience out of the box, consumers can't complain. It's understood that if you want to play with multiple people, you'll have to cough up the cash for extra controllers. And yeah, the Wii U is same-room multiplayer-centric, but I'm sure Nintendoland will offer enough pass-and-play multiplayer to cover that angle. The Wii U will come with Nintendoland, one Gamepad, and that's it.
post #329 of 1142
Concur w/ Mongo...NIntendoLand seems like a pack in title. But outside of it & the GamePad, I doubt anything else comes in the initial WiiU box. And let's face it...there a re A LOT of Wiimotes out there in the wild. I'd bet the vast majority of WIiU buyers in the beginning will be existing Wii owners.
post #330 of 1142
Yeah, I agree with everyone else. Nintendoland makes perfect sense as a pack-in. It introduces people to franchises which may be new to them, shows off miiverse and introduces people to Nintendo's new control scheme.

There is really no reason to include a wiimote. It would just add to the cost of the console unnecessarily. There are over 130 million sold worldwide with over 65 million in the US. The few people who buy the Wii U but don't have them will have to buy extra controllers like every other console. Games that require them will put it on the back of the box like they've been doing forever. Retailers will try to push them like they do all accessories. The only way I could see it happening is if they did different skus and have one include a hd and wiimote or something along those lines.
Edited by Monger - 6/27/12 at 12:19pm
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