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LG 50PA6500 and LG 60PA6500 Plasmas - Page 38

post #1111 of 1288
Hi, I just got the 60" version a few days ago and like you, i was VERY concerned about the white screen being more light grey...but not to worry:

I use a home theater pc and do some web browsing as well on this tv and the white background on web pages certainly is darker than my previous sharp 46" lcd.

BUT I noticed that if i made the browser window smaller and smaller the white part got brighter and brighter. I also noticed when viewing any video content, there is plenty of brightness.

I have a theory that maybe the plasmas simply have a hard time displaying a full bright white screen - they were never intended to be used this way anyways. Also make sure you turn off all of the power saving eco green tree hugger settings - they ruin the picture imho.

so the white background is really only greyish when browsing the net...


Added bonus: i get tired earlier at night since getting this tv - maybe my lcd was too bright and keeping me awake - who knew, plasmas may be the cure for insomnia for some people.


ps: i agree going from 42" to 50" is not a big jump - maybe you should splurge and get the 60"! I can say that going from 46" to 60" for me looks to be a considerable upgrade.

I am overall quite happy with this tv - compared to my sharp lcd (purch 2007) this has way better black levels, and i can focus on the action.

Transformers dark side of the moon hd trailer was amazing, I could never focus on those darn robots with my lcd due to motion blur - I see so much more detail with the plasma.
post #1112 of 1288
Eco settings are off, and the Panasonic is also a plasma...but after doing a bit of research I see you are correct. Plasmas apparently have "auto brightness limiting" built-in that will have the effect you describe of bringing down the brightness as the bright areas take up more of the screen. Never heard of it until now and I find it terrible. Never noticed any problems with the old Panny as a result of it, apparently, NOT having ABL.

Would have loved the 60" but the 50" was at the sweet spot in terms of price. Also no room for a 60" in my current setup.
post #1113 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer69 View Post

Hi, I just got the 60" version a few days ago and like you, i was VERY concerned about the white screen being more light grey...but not to worry:
I use a home theater pc and do some web browsing as well on this tv and the white background on web pages certainly is darker than my previous sharp 46" lcd.
BUT I noticed that if i made the browser window smaller and smaller the white part got brighter and brighter. I also noticed when viewing any video content, there is plenty of brightness.
I have a theory that maybe the plasmas simply have a hard time displaying a full bright white screen - they were never intended to be used this way anyways. Also make sure you turn off all of the power saving eco green tree hugger settings - they ruin the picture imho.
so the white background is really only greyish when browsing the net...
Added bonus: i get tired earlier at night since getting this tv - maybe my lcd was too bright and keeping me awake - who knew, plasmas may be the cure for insomnia for some people.
ps: i agree going from 42" to 50" is not a big jump - maybe you should splurge and get the 60"! I can say that going from 46" to 60" for me looks to be a considerable upgrade.
I am overall quite happy with this tv - compared to my sharp lcd (purch 2007) this has way better black levels, and i can focus on the action.
Transformers dark side of the moon hd trailer was amazing, I could never focus on those darn robots with my lcd due to motion blur - I see so much more detail with the plasma.

I would calibrate the TV with energy saver feature off, but once calibrated, the auto intelligent sensor does a fine job of keeping the TV right brightness for the situation including pitch black. When you got to the movie theater/cinema, is it as bright as a TV? No, so when it's dark in the room, I want it the right brightness. All insults about tree-hugging crap aside, I want it the right brightness nor pay more on the electric bill just for it to be too bright. Also try "Flux" a free program for your computer that will help with your computer screen not being too bright at night automatically. Helped me get tired and sleep better after using the computer late.
post #1114 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Eco settings are off, and the Panasonic is also a plasma...but after doing a bit of research I see you are correct. Plasmas apparently have "auto brightness limiting" built-in that will have the effect you describe of bringing down the brightness as the bright areas take up more of the screen. Never heard of it until now and I find it terrible. Never noticed any problems with the old Panny as a result of it, apparently, NOT having ABL.
Would have loved the 60" but the 50" was at the sweet spot in terms of price. Also no room for a 60" in my current setup.

I think this is more on the older models that use significantly more power, like 700 watts, to limit power consumption as it was so high back then. I am not really noticing this effect on mine but maybe it's because I don't browse on it, only directly play Netflix and other video full screen off the computer.
post #1115 of 1288
I'm not browsing either, just watching tv and movies and playing games. It's terrible. It's like a really bad dynamic iris on a projector whenever a brighter scene comes on. If this is how all plasmas are these days, I don't get the appeal.
post #1116 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I'm not browsing either, just watching tv and movies and playing games. It's terrible. It's like a really bad dynamic iris on a projector whenever a brighter scene comes on. If this is how all plasmas are these days, I don't get the appeal.


If it really bothers you and you cant get past it, i'd be the first to say take it back if you can. I bought at Costco partly because i was very unsure about plasmas and if i decide i dont like it then will return it with no hesitation and go back to an lcd.(90 day return policy).


Here's how i look at it: (these are my opinions not statement of fact, please dont pick it apart and tell me im wrong)

Pro LCD:
-brighter whites
-better contrast in dark scenes
-power savings (my sharp lcd was about 300watts, lg plasma around 500)

Con LCD:
-banding &/or patchy uneven areas noticeable on dark scenes (some models - the banding on my sharp 46" lcd was really bad - grey stripes across the screen)
-terrible black levels (unless you pay $$$ for high end)
-motion blur can really degrade action movie & gaming experience (I really didnt know how bad my sharp was for this until i got the plasma)

Pro Plasma
-better black levels
-can focus on action (this was a huge deal for me, amazing difference without motion blur)
-sharper picture/better color reproduction (debatable, but these seem much better on my Lg 60" than on my sharp 46"
-lower cost (i saved over $500 vs comparable lcd)

Con Plasma:
-duller whites (not noticeable when viewing video for me, only when browsing net, so this is a minor issue to me)
-uses more power (was just kidding about tree hugger settings - i actually do care about the planet!)


So for me the pros of plasma outweigh the cons. That said i'm sure I'd be happy with a better lcd that has faster refresh, full array backlighting and local dimming - but at 4-5x the price it's just not in the budget....
post #1117 of 1288
"better contrast in dark scenes"

Really? I'd have thought plasmas would take this category.
post #1118 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I'm not browsing either, just watching tv and movies and playing games. It's terrible. It's like a really bad dynamic iris on a projector whenever a brighter scene comes on. If this is how all plasmas are these days, I don't get the appeal.

Maybe I'm not sure I know what you are describing. Have you calibrated the TV using the settings posted here or at least the Picture Wizard II set on Expert 1 or 2? I have been VERY impressed by absolutely every aspect of this TV except for when light hits it directly and causes glare...
Edited by danbfree - 12/31/12 at 2:00am
post #1119 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer69 View Post

If it really bothers you and you cant get past it, i'd be the first to say take it back if you can. I bought at Costco partly because i was very unsure about plasmas and if i decide i dont like it then will return it with no hesitation and go back to an lcd.(90 day return policy).
Here's how i look at it: (these are my opinions not statement of fact, please dont pick it apart and tell me im wrong)
Pro LCD:
-brighter whites
-better contrast in dark scenes
-power savings (my sharp lcd was about 300watts, lg plasma around 500)
Con LCD:
-banding &/or patchy uneven areas noticeable on dark scenes (some models - the banding on my sharp 46" lcd was really bad - grey stripes across the screen)
-terrible black levels (unless you pay $$$ for high end)
-motion blur can really degrade action movie & gaming experience (I really didnt know how bad my sharp was for this until i got the plasma)
Pro Plasma
-better black levels
-can focus on action (this was a huge deal for me, amazing difference without motion blur)
-sharper picture/better color reproduction (debatable, but these seem much better on my Lg 60" than on my sharp 46"
-lower cost (i saved over $500 vs comparable lcd)
Con Plasma:
-duller whites (not noticeable when viewing video for me, only when browsing net, so this is a minor issue to me)
-uses more power (was just kidding about tree hugger settings - i actually do care about the planet!)
So for me the pros of plasma outweigh the cons. That said i'm sure I'd be happy with a better lcd that has faster refresh, full array backlighting and local dimming - but at 4-5x the price it's just not in the budget....

I dunno, I am impressed with all but the glare from direct light hitting it vs. LCD... Have you calibrated your set yet?
post #1120 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

"better contrast in dark scenes"
Really? I'd have thought plasmas would take this category.

as mentioned, compared to my 5 yr old sharp 46" this is true....may not be a true rule for plasma vs lcd
post #1121 of 1288
I've run the wizard thing, and played around a lot with settings - mostly like it now where i have it.
post #1122 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer69 View Post

I've run the wizard thing, and played around a lot with settings - mostly like it now where i have it.

I was gonna say, once you tweak it some, it does have a good picture. Seriously, I only paid $779 for the 60" and I don't think spending at LEAST DOUBLE on anything the same size is worth it.
Edited by danbfree - 12/29/12 at 3:13am
post #1123 of 1288
I'm interested in how these compare to the Panasonic UT50B, ignoring the 3D and SMART functions which are of no real interest to me. The 50PA650T, which I understand is the UK version of this, is about £120 cheaper than the P50UT50B.

By all accounts the Panasonic sets are well regarded for black levels, etc but the 50hz bug that affects all their 2012 range (and previous years models) puts me right off them, seeing as I'll be using the inbuilt UK Freeview tuner which runs at 50hz! They've also used the remote with the dreaded N button (which resets all picture settings to default) with the UT50B.

So, in terms of picture quality, i.e. black levels, calibration controls (2-point grayscale, CMS, etc) how does this compare to the UT50B? I'm also a bit concerned about input lag as Panasonic are renowned for having lower lag than either LG or Samsung (although the 2012 Pannys are not quite as good as the previous years models) and I'll be using the TV for PC and console gaming.
post #1124 of 1288
Here's a youtube vid of the brightness limiter in action. In particular, watch as he resizes the window. The bigger it gets, the dimmer the screen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHndICrpxqs
post #1125 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Here's a youtube vid of the brightness limiter in action. In particular, watch as he resizes the window. The bigger it gets, the dimmer the screen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHndICrpxqs

Yep, that's it. There's no getting around it on a plasma - however, LG plasmas seem to be particularly bad.

ChadB recently took measurements using various pattern sizes/types on a Panasonic GT50 and posted the results here: ABL effects measured for comparison

I've taken similar measurements on my LG PM9700 and can state absolutely that LG's ABL implementation is far more aggressive (worse) than Panasonic's.
Edited by djams - 12/29/12 at 11:31am
post #1126 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Beefhead View Post

Finally decided to bring my 60PA6500 back to Costco. After hundreds of hours of breaking in and calibrating, the picture still looks noisy and just generally awful. I picked up the Vizio E701i-a3 and the jump in picture quality is just astounding. I know that a lot of people claim that plasma displays have a superior picture compared to LED backlit LCD, and that may be the case, but certainly not in the case of this particular plasma, at least in my opinion.
yeah I had the 50pa5500 side by side with a 55st50 for a day and there was a big difference especially with the noise you describe, or dithering. I know all plasmas do it but the lgs are very bad. In order to get rid of it, most of it anyway I had to lower brightness and that caused the background in dark scenes to be all black,the panny displays it all fine. And it was very noticeable from viewing distance on the LG, 8ft for me, and it was wavy which made it more annoying. And I had two sets, the first had a dead pixel, and both did it.
post #1127 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Device View Post

Mainly CNET reviews mentioned that the 60PA6500 suffered from noticeable image retention, several posts in this thread and on AVS forums also indicate that the 60PA6500 was having image retention for those individuals.

Then always leave the "Orbiter" function engaged. I now have 1742 hours on it and have no permanent IR. Perhaps they were complaining about the temporary IR which disappears after a minute or two.
post #1128 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ListedGuru View Post

We primarily watch HD cable with the occasional weekend BR. I sit about 8' from the screen while my wife's seating is between 11' and 12' on the couch. Is this 8' too close from this 60" LG for watching shows on HD cable? Will I see dithering from my seating position (my wife had great eyesight).

Also does this 60" LG put out much heat? It would be going in a corner where my thermostat is (same location my current plasma is).

You might be happier with an LED if you mostly only do TV viewing. (I recently saw "The Avengers" on a Samsung 50" or 55" LED TV and hated it - looked too much like a video tape.)

8' for a 60" is just about right. (1.62 x 60" = 8.13'). I like 1.62x, others like 1.5x, some others 1.2x. See http://www.hometheater.com/content/what-your-viewing-distance
Quote:
Diagonal measurement × 1.6 (corresponding to 30-degree viewing angle)

Viewing an HDTV from a position where the display occupies a 30 degree field of view is widely quoted as the SMPTE (or SMPTE 30) recommendation (equivalent to about 1.6263 times the screen size in a 16:9 TV). This recommendation is very popular with the home theater enthusiast community,[21][22] appears in books on home theater design,[23] and is also supported by a white paper produced by Fujitsu.[24] Although an article on research into setting the specification for the next evolution of HDTV, Ultra HDTV (or UHDTV), does support the premise that HDTV was optimized for a view angle of 30 degrees,[10] there seems to be no direct recommendation from SMPTE on the issue.

[edit] Diagonal measurement × 1.2 (corresponding to 40-degree viewing angle)

THX recommends that the “best seat-to-screen distance” is one where the view angle approximates 40 degrees,[25] (the actual angle is 40.04 degrees).[3] Their recommendation was originally presented at the 2006 CES show, and was stated as being the theoretical maximum horizontal view angle, based on average human vision.[26] In the opinion of THX the location where the display is viewed at a 40 degree view angle provides the most “immersive cinematic experience”,[25] all other things considered. For consumer application of their recommendations, THX recommends dividing the diagonal screen measurement by .84 to calculate the optimum viewing distance, for a 1080p resolution. This equates to multiplying the diagonal measurement with about 1.2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tv_viewing_distance

60/0.84=71.43"=5.95'. 1/0.84=1.19. The closer you are the more immersive the movie, the less distracting the back ground. (On a side note - if you have your LG mounted on the wall you may hear more "plasma singing" since the wall will amplify the power supply noise. You might as well put some sound absorbing material directly behind the TV but such that the material cannot be seen from the viewing seat.)

Here's the kicker: put on a WS movie where you see the upper and lower black bars. Now measure the diagonal.
On a 2.40 film that comes out to 57" on the 60PA6500.
Compare the 1.2x to the 1.62x distance.
57" x 1.62 = ~92" = ~7.7'.
57" x 1.5 = 85.5" = 7.125'
57" x 1.19 = ~68" = ~5.65'.
Split the difference and 80" may be ideal. For one single person.
For a couple you'll probably want to add a foot or two.
I'm about 84" away from screen centre to nose tip. But it's also because that is the distance where the black bars are under my bi-focal eye glasses line. Another big consideration is the exact centre of the screen relative to your seating height. If you can't adjust the height of the seat such that your eyes naturally focus at the exact or the TV is too high relative to the centre axis viewing line then you will have to move the seat further back. You wouldn't sit 8" away from the TV if it is mounted above the fireplace would you? No, you'd have to angle it down. And chances are that you would naturally angle it down such that the centre of the screen was square to your eyes, so the closer you are the greater the angle and the further away the less the angle. My TV stand is 22" high and I'm looking for one that is 18" high. So measure your cabinet/tv stand and multiply by 4. That should be your viewing distance. Easy wasn't it? biggrin.gif


When it starts to feel too warm in the room - turn on your ceiling fan.
post #1129 of 1288
Has anyone updated the firmware/software to 04.00.03?

My 60PA6500 is on 04.00.02 and working great so I'm locked in the struggle between "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and "ooh! new, shiny firmware".
post #1130 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonhern View Post

yeah I had the 50pa5500 side by side with a 55st50 for a day and there was a big difference especially with the noise you describe, or dithering. I know all plasmas do it but the lgs are very bad. In order to get rid of it, most of it anyway I had to lower brightness and that caused the background in dark scenes to be all black,the panny displays it all fine. And it was very noticeable from viewing distance on the LG, 8ft for me, and it was wavy which made it more annoying. And I had two sets, the first had a dead pixel, and both did it.

I'm just not seeing it on mine... We are talking one that wasn't even *made* until this month (12/12) and has 4.00.03 firmware on it... perhaps they have improved their manufacturing process? I still don't care for how dim plasma's are in general but even up close I'm not seeing much noise/dithering.
post #1131 of 1288
Yeah, noise and dithering is not an issue I'm having either.

I decided to keep the tv. I doubt I'll get a better price on a tv of this size or bigger and most of my gaming and all of my movies are done on the projector anyway.
post #1132 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

I'm just not seeing it on mine... We are talking one that wasn't even *made* until this month (12/12) and has 4.00.03 firmware on it... perhaps they have improved their manufacturing process? I still don't care for how dim plasma's are in general but even up close I'm not seeing much noise/dithering.
it was only noticeable on dark scenes and I did get rid of most of it at the expense of seeing the background in those really dark scenes. And it was not a deal breaker for me, I would have kept it had I not scored a crazy deal on an open box 55st50 at local shop's black Friday sale for the same price I paid for the LG 50pa5500 which was my budget. It did some things better too than the panny, like 1080 24p. And sound was much better on my LG LCD and plasma than the st50,mainly due to clear voice. I even got a Panasonic soundbar but that was not good ether so returned it, sounded great with bluray but poor while watching TV. But in terms of pq the Panasonic is noticeably better, I really did not know what I was missing until I had them side by side. Not to mention a lot less glare. But for the most part I was very happy with the set, and had I had to pay retail for the st50 I would have stayed with the LG as the price to quality ratio was great, much better than any led-lcds at that price range.
post #1133 of 1288
Wow, not sure what you got your 55st50 for, but that's a $1200 TV and smaller than the LG here that I only paid $779 for with a full 2 year warranty from Costco.... There is zero debate, that model is better period... but not worth it to me at MORE than double for the same size.
post #1134 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

Wow, not sure what you got your 55st50 for, but that's a $1200 TV and smaller than the LG here that I only paid $779 for with a full 2 year warranty from Costco.... There is zero debate, that model is better period... but not worth it to me at MORE than double for the same size.
yeah I know, that was my point. It was actually a price mistake, the Black Friday deal was the 55st30 for $499 as I later saw on there Facebook lol. Was wanting the 50in but when i got there the sales guy alerted me to the fact that the 55in was only $499. Considering what their prices were for their friends and family sale last week that was supposed to be their lowest prices ever, they had a 55gt30 $650 I am guessing mine was supposed to be at least $700. They only sell open box and inventory changes week to week so I lucked out, my set only had around 140 hours on it from being on display. But yeah if i had not gotten that deal I would have been happy with the LG, my main complaint was the dithering.
post #1135 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad720 View Post

Has anyone updated the firmware/software to 04.00.03?
My 60PA6500 is on 04.00.02 and working great so I'm locked in the struggle between "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and "ooh! new, shiny firmware".

Went ahead and did the update. Totally painless. No changes that I can tell.

Quick tip - don't forget the "_" in the "LG_DTV" folder you make on your flash drive. smile.gif
post #1136 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonhern View Post

yeah I know, that was my point. It was actually a price mistake, the Black Friday deal was the 55st30 for $499 as I later saw on there Facebook lol. Was wanting the 50in but when i got there the sales guy alerted me to the fact that the 55in was only $499. Considering what their prices were for their friends and family sale last week that was supposed to be their lowest prices ever, they had a 55gt30 $650 I am guessing mine was supposed to be at least $700. They only sell open box and inventory changes week to week so I lucked out, my set only had around 140 hours on it from being on display. But yeah if i had not gotten that deal I would have been happy with the LG, my main complaint was the dithering.

Nice job, I'd take that 55" as well but you must have had a bad set with the LG. If what you mean by dithering is distortion in the blacks from too much brightness or contrast, then I'm not seeing it at all...
post #1137 of 1288
Hey all... so I have an odd question on the set.

I've been noticing that on shows that have a lot of night scenes the backlight will turn off when it is all black on the screen and then turn back on almost a few seconds later once something is happening on the screen again.

This is extremely annoying. Is there any way to make it stay the same black color the entire show regardless of if the screen is all black or if it is only slightly dark? On my old LCD I think there was a setting that was like "auto backlight" that would make it not do that but I haven't been able to find anything.
post #1138 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckydan View Post

Hey all... so I have an odd question on the set.
I've been noticing that on shows that have a lot of night scenes the backlight will turn off when it is all black on the screen and then turn back on almost a few seconds later once something is happening on the screen again.
This is extremely annoying. Is there any way to make it stay the same black color the entire show regardless of if the screen is all black or if it is only slightly dark? On my old LCD I think there was a setting that was like "auto backlight" that would make it not do that but I haven't been able to find anything.

If you search through this thread you will see that setting brightness at least 52 then it won't happen... also make sure you have the latest firmware by checking the LG website.
post #1139 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by danbfree View Post

If you search through this thread you will see that setting brightness at least 52 then it won't happen... also make sure you have the latest firmware by checking the LG website.

Thanks for the reply. I actually had it at 51 so hopefully that is the fix (to be fair I did look briefly but this is a huge thread and without knowing what I was looking for it was tough...)

Unfortunately my model is the 60pa6500-UA which has not had a firmware update yet frown.gif
Edited by duckydan - 1/1/13 at 6:39am
post #1140 of 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckydan View Post

Thanks for the reply. I actually had it at 51 so hopefully that is the fix (to be fair I did look briefly but this is a huge thread and without knowing what I was looking for it was tough...)
Unfortunately my model is the 65pa6500-UA which has not had a firmware update yet frown.gif

65"? Really? Mine is actually a 6550, just warehouse club model # of a 6500, they use the same firmware, should be 4.00.03... Anyway, it IS a weird bug, let us know if brightness at 52 solves it... personally I use a 54 brightness most of the time anyway so I haven't noticed the problem personally.
Edited by danbfree - 12/31/12 at 10:55pm
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