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Samsung Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 5

post #121 of 288
2/17/12 at 7:18pm
Thanks, Zoyd. I relish the adventure. Reminds me of the first time years ago when I opened a CPU to upgrade RAM and swap out a hard drive. There were glistening boards that looked like a city in miniature. I still have the anti-static wrist strap.
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post #122 of 288
2/18/12 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Have you tried 50Hz signals with it? I know the European sets handle both 60Hz and 50Hz. If that doesn't work you could put a European mainboard in it and that should work.

My plasma is USA model that support only 60 Hz.
Can i made it support 50 Hz without replacing the main board by modifing the
main board?
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post #123 of 288
2/18/12 at 1:48am
Zoyd

Probably a long shot but those of us with 59" + units that have no yrr pots on y scan board. Would it be feesable to replace the y scan board from a 51 inch model?

Thanks

David
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post #124 of 288
2/18/12 at 3:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuria View Post

My plasma is USA model that support only 60 Hz.
Can i made it support 50 Hz without replacing the main board by modifing the
main board?

I don't know think so but you might want to ask in the D series forum at samygo.tv

@bold1342 no, that would not work, sorry.
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post #125 of 288
2/18/12 at 3:53am
I was pleasantly surprised to find this thread. Nice work zoyd! I think 2012 is looking like a 51E7000 + pot tweak for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by bold1342 View Post

Probably a long shot but those of us with 59" + units that have no yrr pots on y scan board. Would it be feesable to replace the y scan board from a 51 inch model?

You shouldn't need to; the 59" have good black level already.
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post #126 of 288
2/18/12 at 5:23am
Not true. The black level plain sucks on my 59D550.
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post #127 of 288
2/18/12 at 5:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by assm0de View Post

I was pleasantly surprised to find this thread. Nice work zoyd! I think 2012 is looking like a 51E7000 + pot tweak for me



You shouldn't need to; the 59" have good black level already.

I would check the y-board layout before buying the 51E7000 to make sure the analog trims are still there.

BTW: If anyone one is interested in upgrading their D6xxx or D7xxx to a D8000 it looks like replacing the mainboard will do it. Replacing this board is not too hard, the ZIF connectors can be finicky though.
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post #128 of 288
2/18/12 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I would check the y-board layout before buying the 51E7000 to make sure the analog trims are still there.

Of course, I plan on waiting till other owners confirm it is tweakable

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

BTW: If anyone one is interested in upgrading their D6xxx or D7xxx to a D8000 it looks like replacing the mainboard will do it.

Is there anything to be gained by doing that as opposed to simply changing the model in the service menu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

Not true. The black level plain sucks on my 59D550.

Hmm. You should have about 0.007ftL on that model, which is quite good (~5000:1 contrast). Are you sure brightness is not set too high? Are you judging its black level with ambient light in the room? Because any lighting infront of the screen will destroy the black level on that display due to its lack of screen tint. I know because I have the 450 and its the same. Black level will be poor unless you are really careful with room lighting (i.e dim lights off to the side).
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post #129 of 288
2/19/12 at 8:57am
I'm about to apply this mod to my 51d8000. I just have a few questions. Does the TV need to be recalibrated after the mod is performed or does it just take the calibrations and just help with darker black?

I just applied the fbr fix, and wanted to spend the day tweaking with my set. I want to adjust the base values with the avs slides and also apply this mod. What would be the best way in accomplishing this.

Thanks
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post #130 of 288
2/19/12 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by assm0de View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

Not true. The black level plain sucks on my 59D550.

Hmm. You should have about 0.007ftL on that model, which is quite good (~5000:1 contrast). Are you sure brightness is not set too high? Are you judging its black level with ambient light in the room? Because any lighting infront of the screen will destroy the black level on that display due to its lack of screen tint. I know because I have the 450 and its the same. Black level will be poor unless you are really careful with room lighting (i.e dim lights off to the side).

I don't have a meter but I've been dissapointed with the blacks ever since if got it. In complete darkness is when I notice the poor blacks the most. The TV glows a dim grey with an all black signal (complete dark room).
I turn brightness down to the lowest it doesnt matter the blacks only go so low, (not very low). I always set the brightness level so 17 black is lsightly visible with a few dancing rgb pixels, and 16 black has none. If i lower the brightness further (even all the way down), the 16 black gets no darker, but of course I crush out 17+.

In other words, it's not my settings its my panel. I was kinda under the assumption that mine is the same as all others. I really have no other standard to compare to, I'm coming directly from CRT.
Perhaps my TV is worse than the norm, and I should get a service call.
I wish I had a meter.
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post #131 of 288
2/19/12 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post


I don't have a meter but I've been dissapointed with the blacks ever since if got it. In complete darkness is when I notice the poor blacks the most. The TV glows a dim grey with an all black signal (complete dark room).
I turn brightness down to the lowest it doesnt matter the blacks only go so low, (not very low). I always set the brightness level so 17 black is lsightly visible with a few dancing rgb pixels, and 16 black has none. If i lower the brightness further (even all the way down), the 16 black gets no darker, but of course I crush out 17+.

In other words, it's not my settings its my panel. I was kinda under the assumption that mine is the same as all others. I really have no other standard to compare to, I'm coming directly from CRT.
Perhaps my TV is worse than the norm, and I should get a service call.
I wish I had a meter.

This is the reason I returned the C590 after 3wks and got the C7000. Much better blacks and picture in general. The other thing was that I was constantly having to adjust the picture size to get it to look right. Never believed that going up in a tv line's hierarchy made a difference until I did it.
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post #132 of 288
2/19/12 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

I don't have a meter but I've been dissapointed with the blacks ever since if got it. In complete darkness is when I notice the poor blacks the most. The TV glows a dim grey with an all black signal (complete dark room).
I turn brightness down to the lowest it doesnt matter the blacks only go so low, (not very low). I always set the brightness level so 17 black is lsightly visible with a few dancing rgb pixels, and 16 black has none. If i lower the brightness further (even all the way down), the 16 black gets no darker, but of course I crush out 17+.

I wish I had a meter.

Hello, the blacks only go so low because of the minimum luminance level of your tv. This is considered the darkest the black will look on your set once the proper brightness setting has been set, if you turn black much lower then the correct setting , the black of the panel will not get darker but you will crush black detail ie. stripe 17 and up. Unless you try the new found method to lower your minimum luminance level which could make your black level appear darker then it currently is , this requires going into the back of your tv set and adjusting trim pots. Also getting a tv with better minimum luminance is the other option to darker , deeper blacks....kuro is your best bet, too bad they are no longer available or rare to come across.
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post #133 of 288
2/19/12 at 10:14pm
So has anyone confirmed that this works/doesn't work with the 59 D550?

What exactly is plasma misfire? I saw that in the thread but not really sure what it is.. is it something you can visually see or is it something you have to measure with some device?

Another question I have -- with almost every plasma, I see what I like to describe as snow in the picture when you're up close . Regular viewing distance isn't noticeable, but up close it looks like there's little bits of snow (tiny white dots that dance around) -- it's more noisy and visible in dark areas... What is the official term for this? Even my old 2006 model Panasonic had this.. tho i noticed when the scene was a certain brightness the noise stopped appearing in black areas (black bars for example)....
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post #134 of 288
2/20/12 at 3:47am
Thread Starter 
No reports on whether the 59" d550 has the Yrr trim or not. Plasma misfire is when the pixel doesn't light up when it's supposed to.

The snow you see is called dithering which happens when displaying the first few video levels of plasma displays.

@Brad: no recalibration needed after tweaking other than resetting brightness and maybe gamma.
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post #135 of 288
2/20/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

No reports on whether the 59" d550 has the Yrr trim or not. Plasma misfire is when the pixel doesn't light up when it's supposed to.

The snow you see is called dithering which happens when displaying the first few video levels of plasma displays.

@Brad: no recalibration needed after tweaking other than resetting brightness and maybe gamma.

Thanks zoyd. My final question is does this change the white level at all? I wanna do this mod and then get it calibrated, however I would really like to get white whites vs the almost yellowish tint I get now. I'm hoping its just a calibration and not something across the board with plasmas. I might need to calibrate a mode with cool vs warm2. Thanks for your support, not sure if you saw in the other post but you give better support than Samsung! Kudos!
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post #136 of 288
2/20/12 at 9:52pm
My ps59d550 doesnt have a YRR pot. But I changed VA and Vscan, seems to have a made a differnce but I will have to check tonight in the dark and I will also measure with my I1 LT. Also applied the FBR fix and changed the model to d7000. Thanks for all the info Zoyd
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post #137 of 288
2/22/12 at 8:46pm
This is probably a really stupid question, but someone please humor me... when changing the voltage from 205 to 199, how do I know how much I'm changing it? Do I need like a voltage meter or something? Sorry, I'm not too techy and I just want really good black levels. Thanks!!

Edit: Just wanted to add that Zoyd is the man!!!
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post #138 of 288
2/23/12 at 10:35am
Yes, it would be better to use a volt meter. But you can try it without and use the advises from zoyd in the first post.
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post #139 of 288
2/23/12 at 11:59am
Here's a dumber question... what do I attach the volt meter to? I did step 3 with the YRR and noticed a huge change, but for step 1 I'm stuck on the Vs. There are no numbers or markings to know where 199v is.

Had a Panasonic P50GT30 for almost a month, but it had several problems and the Comedy Central logo somehow got burnt into the screen. Saw some good reviews of the PN51D6500 and decided to try it. Everything was awesome at first, but I couldn't get over how much higher the black level was verses the GT30... after tweaking the YRR, my 6500 black level is as dark or darker than the GT30!! THANK YOU, ZOYD!!!
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post #140 of 288
2/24/12 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM23 View Post

Thanks zoyd. My final question is does this change the white level at all? I wanna do this mod and then get it calibrated, however I would really like to get white whites vs the almost yellowish tint I get now. I'm hoping its just a calibration and not something across the board with plasmas. I might need to calibrate a mode with cool vs warm2. Thanks for your support, not sure if you saw in the other post but you give better support than Samsung! Kudos!

No, peak white levels are the same. warm2 is closest to the proper color temperate and may look yellowish to you if you are used to blue/white displays. reference white is D65 @6500K which warm2 comes closest too, you'll need a meter to get any closer.
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post #141 of 288
2/24/12 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldoviera View Post

Here's a dumber question... what do I attach the volt meter to? I did step 3 with the YRR and noticed a huge change, but for step 1 I'm stuck on the Vs. There are no numbers or markings to know where 199v is.

Had a Panasonic P50GT30 for almost a month, but it had several problems and the Comedy Central logo somehow got burnt into the screen. Saw some good reviews of the PN51D6500 and decided to try it. Everything was awesome at first, but I couldn't get over how much higher the black level was verses the GT30... after tweaking the YRR, my 6500 black level is as dark or darker than the GT30!! THANK YOU, ZOYD!!!

Sounds like you got a good result without bothering with the voltages so I would leave it there. If you want to measure them there are copper test pads near each adjustment and you put your positive probe on that and your negative probe you can use one of the screws holding the board down. Be careful you don't slip off the pad and short something out.

I also had a GT30 at first and my D8000 now has better blacks.
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post #142 of 288
2/26/12 at 5:42pm
zoyd:

One of your initial quotes was:
Quote:


Models without the Yrr pot might be adjustable via logic board register.

I would appreciate it if you could further explain or describe how this can be done. I have a samsung PN50B450 and I removed the rear panel to see that this model does not have the Yrr pot.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

As always,

Vincentfam
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post #143 of 288
2/26/12 at 6:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfam View Post

zoyd:

One of your initial quotes was:

I would appreciate it if you could further explain or describe how this can be done. I have a samsung PN50B450 and I removed the rear panel to see that this model does not have the Yrr pot.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

As always,

Vincentfam

Everything I know about possible logic board tweaks for non-analog Yrr adjustments is posted here.
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post #144 of 288
3/8/12 at 4:40pm
Thread Starter 
Just remeasured black levels and they are rock solid after 6 weeks.

mll = 0.0055 +/- 0.0003 ftL 3-sigma
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post #145 of 288
3/8/12 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Sounds like you got a good result without bothering with the voltages so I would leave it there. If you want to measure them there are copper test pads near each adjustment and you put your positive probe on that and your negative probe you can use one of the screws holding the board down. Be careful you don't slip off the pad and short something out.

I also had a GT30 at first and my D8000 now has better blacks.


Awesome, thanks!! The blacks are looking good but if I can get them better, I'm all in. I've got an issue with green and red dots dancing around in dark areas of the screen regardless of the input or material being played, and I read that it could be remedied by lowering the voltage. Picking up a multimeter tomorrow...
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post #146 of 288
3/11/12 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

nope, IMO the tweak is worth it even if you can't measure the final mll. You'll see the difference immediately on the 51"ers. Just rotate Yrr CW until you see patches of misfires in the scrolling grey pattern (under menu->system->screen burn protection) and then back off a bit until it clears up.

You are the man zoyd!! I'm going to give this a try as well. I also have the 51d8000. I don't have any tools ether but you've answered my concern.
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post #147 of 288
3/12/12 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbm30 View Post


You are the man zoyd!! I'm going to give this a try as well. I also have the 51d8000. I don't have any tools ether but you've answered my concern.

I did mine today. It is a lot blacker then before but I do see specks popping around the tv in bright scenes. Not a lot tho. I have my yrr set where's yours is at on the picture. Any advice you can give me zoyd I'm all ears.
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post #148 of 288
3/12/12 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
Enjoy! If the misfires are too often/noticeable you'll have to back off a tiny bit on the adjustment.
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post #149 of 288
3/12/12 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Enjoy! If the misfires are too often/noticeable you'll have to back off a tiny bit on the adjustment.

Ok. Thanks again!!
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post #150 of 288
3/13/12 at 12:24pm
I got a question guys, I am opening my set now but I am having a hard time with the top side of the backpanel when I try to pull it out the front panel is coming with it. Any tips on how to pull it out?
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