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Room Corrected Optical Digital Out to External DAC?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Probably a strange question but I just bought an Integra 80.2 for dedicated HT to get XT32 with my multiple subs (and boy, is there an improvement there!). This frees up my older Onkyo 885 which I'm thinking about using in a 2-channel system. And since I already have a DAC in that system that I really like, I'm wondering if I can use the 885 to apply Audyssey to the bass issues in this open room and then feed the hopefully room corrected optical out to my DAC? Not sure if I'm even asking this correctly or if it makes sense. This system will be 2.0 or 2.1 only. Any feedback much appreciated...

John
post #2 of 26
That is not possible, I am afraid.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

That is not possible, I am afraid.

Thanks. Figured it wasn't but wanted to confirm...

John
post #4 of 26
Why wouldn't you run analog from the DAC to one of the processed analog inputs (ie not the multichannel) on the 885?
post #5 of 26
If the room corrected PCM stream can be output via HDMI then there's a way.
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightvet View Post

Why wouldn't you run analog from the DAC to one of the processed analog inputs (ie not the multichannel) on the 885?

The analog section of the 885 removes the last bit of transparency and resolution that the Hegel HD20 provides - not a big surprise as the DAC costs as much as the pre/pro. If memory serves me correctly, Kal's review of the corresponding Integra unit came to the same conclusion. So right now my choice is between digital processing to tame my living room's substantial bass boom or stay analog to get the sound that draws me into the music. I'd like to get the best of both...

John
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

If the room corrected PCM stream can be output via HDMI then there's a way.

Don't know that, at least with the 885, that it can. But if so, what would I do with it?

John
post #8 of 26
I'm afraid I don't know about the HDMI output question and indeed I've been thinking about something similar myself, in using the cheapest AVR with Aud XT32 for room correction only with HDMI out to another 'better' AVR. In other words treat the first AVR as a standalone Audyssey box.

Some people do connect their AVRs to TVs so I'd assume the HDMI audio out could be room corrected. If not then too bad. That brings me to your second point. Some TVs do take HDMI in and output 2CH audio via digital connection and there are other devices (HDMI audio de-embedder, external video processors) that can do that also. If all that sounds a bit cumbersome then there is a new HDMI DAC coming out.
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I'm afraid I don't know about the HDMI output question and indeed I've been thinking about something similar myself, in using the cheapest AVR with Aud XT32 for room correction only with HDMI out to another 'better' AVR. In other words treat the first AVR as a standalone Audyssey box.

Seems unnecessarily cumbersome.

Quote:


Some people do connect their AVRs to TVs so I'd assume the HDMI audio out could be room corrected. If not then too bad. That brings me to your second point. Some TVs do take HDMI in and output 2CH audio via digital connection and there are other devices (HDMI audio de-embedder, external video processors) that can do that also.

The de-embedder might be OK if non-HD multichannel audio is OK.

Quote:


If all that sounds a bit cumbersome then there is a new HDMI DAC coming out.

The NAD is stereo-only. Is there another?
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I'm afraid I don't know about the HDMI output question and indeed I've been thinking about something similar myself, in using the cheapest AVR with Aud XT32 for room correction only with HDMI out to another 'better' AVR. In other words treat the first AVR as a standalone Audyssey box.

Don't want to add another box to what is a quest to simplify my existing two channel rig. I'll probably just look for a pre/pro (or receiver to be used as such) with better DACs and a better analog section than the 885. Also would like to send DSD over HDMI from an Oppo DV80 and have the pre/pro decode that along with Bluray music in lossless form...

John
post #11 of 26
Not using your 885, but there is this:

Antimode 2.0 appears to do what you want.


"Anti-Mode 2.0 can be used also as a high quality USB or S/PDIF DAC, where a single output channels is being driven by Dual 6MHz oversampling multibit DACs. The output connectors consist of both gold-plated balanced XLRs and common RCAs. The new Anti-Mode can be used as a pre-amp with digitally controlled analog-resistor network volume controller (VSDVC). As any settings, the volume is controlled with remote controller. This implementation is beneficial and can accurately produce 120dB dynamics with minimal biasing error. In addition to the analog outputs, the unit supports Pure Digital mode in which it will take a digital stereo input (192kHz/24bit) and then output the room-corrected and processed signal into a digital output (Toslink S/PDIF)."

http://www.ak-soundservices.de/am2dualcore.html
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Seems unnecessarily cumbersome.

Not much more cumbersome than the obsolete Audyssey EQ box and possibly simpler (cable), better (Audyssey ver.) and more flexibility (input switching, when combined with a high-end non-mass market non-Audyssey AVR).
But is it at least feasible - room corrected MCH audio HDMI out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The de-embedder might be OK if non-HD multichannel audio is OK.

The NAD is stereo-only. Is there another?

I thought the OP was talking about a 2Ch system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Don't want to add another box to what is a quest to simplify my existing two channel rig.

Fine but I went on to show at least it's not absolutely impossible to do as you originally was told.
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfan View Post

Not using your 885, but there is this:

Antimode 2.0 appears to do what you want.


"Anti-Mode 2.0 can be used also as a high quality USB or S/PDIF DAC, where a single output channels is being driven by Dual 6MHz oversampling multibit DACs. The output connectors consist of both gold-plated balanced XLRs and common RCAs. The new Anti-Mode can be used as a pre-amp with digitally controlled analog-resistor network volume controller (VSDVC). As any settings, the volume is controlled with remote controller. This implementation is beneficial and can accurately produce 120dB dynamics with minimal biasing error. In addition to the analog outputs, the unit supports Pure Digital mode in which it will take a digital stereo input (192kHz/24bit) and then output the room-corrected and processed signal into a digital output (Toslink S/PDIF)."

http://www.ak-soundservices.de/am2dualcore.html

Interesting device. I couldn't find any reviews or info on availability other than "March 2012" but it certainly addresses much of my wish list and the approx $1K price is attractive...

John
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Not much more cumbersome than the obsolete Audyssey EQ box and possibly simpler (cable), better (Audyssey ver.) and more flexibility (input switching, when combined with a high-end non-mass market non-Audyssey AVR).

Agreed and, as soon as it was no longer advantageous (XT32), the Audyssey boxes went into mothballs.

Quote:


But is it at least feasible - room corrected MCH audio HDMI out?

Seems logical but I have learned that apparent logic is inadequate when dealing with HDMI.
post #15 of 26
If the Antimode 2.0 is as good as the 8033 for subs, it should prove an interesting 2 channel option for those seeking room correction in that mode. Perhaps my next upgrade to the living room 2 channel system I've just set up (though since I've just dropped a good chunk of change on speakers and a new AVR, it will be quite some time from now).
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Ovation, are you using the AVR in your two channel system? If not, what is your set up?

John
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Agreed and, as soon as it was no longer advantageous (XT32), the Audyssey boxes went into mothballs.

Seems logical but I have learned that apparent logic is inadequate when dealing with HDMI.

Kal, do you think there's a big market for HDMI DACs? I'm trying to understand the specific advantages as compared to USB/Optical/Coax...

John
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Kal, do you think there's a big market for HDMI DACs? I'm trying to understand the specific advantages as compared to USB/Optical/Coax...

Dunno. I don't see any big advantages except for multichannel and only then depending on the survival of disc media.
post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
Agreed. I'm probably in the minority in my desire to play things like lossless 2.0 bluray on a two channel system...

John
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Ovation, are you using the AVR in your two channel system? If not, what is your set up?

John

I bought a Yamaha RX-A1000 for my HT and moved my eight year old Integra DTR 6.4 to the living room. I also bought a pair of PSB Imagine Bs which are powered by the Integra. My Antimode 8033 plus YPAO in the HT work together well for room EQ. In fact, I found the 8033 so good that it allowed me to save money on an AVR (A1000 does not EQ the sub, so it costs less than the 2000--whose sub EQ, as far as I understand all the articles I've read, is inferior to the 8033) so that I could afford nicer speakers for my living room.

I may add a sub to the living room someday, though I'm quite pleased with my current bass response, and if I do, an 8033 would very likely be paired with it. Or, funds allowing, the anti-mode 2.0.
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Agreed. I'm probably in the minority in my desire to play things like lossless 2.0 bluray on a two channel system...

Mebbe. NAD has an HDMI DAC and ML showed a mock-up of a new one at CES. Both 2 channel.
post #22 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

I bought a Yamaha RX-A1000 for my HT and moved my eight year old Integra DTR 6.4 to the living room. I also bought a pair of PSB Imagine Bs which are powered by the Integra. My Antimode 8033 plus YPAO in the HT work together well for room EQ. In fact, I found the 8033 so good that it allowed me to save money on an AVR (A1000 does not EQ the sub, so it costs less than the 2000--whose sub EQ, as far as I understand all the articles I've read, is inferior to the 8033) so that I could afford nicer speakers for my living room.

I may add a sub to the living room someday, though I'm quite pleased with my current bass response, and if I do, an 8033 would very likely be paired with it. Or, funds allowing, the anti-mode 2.0.

Following a similar path. Bought an Integra 80.2 to replace my Onkyo 885, so the Onk and a Yamaha 663 are the 'in house" candidates for my two channel system, also in my living room. Currently using a pair of Def Tech STS on short stands so the bass response is plentiful - in fact, too much so given inflexible placement and resulting room modes. I listen to everything from streamed music to CDs/DVDA/SACD to Bluray on this so trying to figure out the most elegant and (cost) effective way to make it all work together...

John
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Following a similar path. Bought an Integra 80.2 to replace my Onkyo 885, so the Onk and a Yamaha 663 are the 'in house" candidates for my two channel system, also in my living room. Currently using a pair of Def Tech STS on short stands so the bass response is plentiful - in fact, too much so given inflexible placement and resulting room modes. I listen to everything from streamed music to CDs/DVDA/SACD to Bluray on this so trying to figure out the most elegant and (cost) effective way to make it all work together...

John

Sounds like you face similar challenges to mine. My speaker placement options in the living room are extremely limited (matter of inches, really). I too listen to streamed audio via iTunes (Airport Express) and CD/SACD/DVD-A via my now venerable Marantz DV6400. I also have a BD player for movies and concerts.

The PSBs are standmounts but given their placement I get a bass hump that is strong enough to warrant the use of the included port plug for one speaker (strangely enough, not the one in the corner).

Given my placement limitations, I'm frankly very pleasant surprised at the quality of the sound overall. Certainly enough to live with the current setup for a while (but you know how this hobby can be regarding "upgraditis").
post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Mebbe. NAD has an HDMI DAC and ML showed a mock-up of a new one at CES. Both 2 channel.

The NAD M51 is one of the reasons I felt that there wasn't much of a potential market for HDMI DACs. Seems like there's been little interest or buzz since its release...

John
post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

Given my placement limitations, I'm frankly very pleasant surprised at the quality of the sound overall. Certainly enough to live with the current setup for a while (but you know how this hobby can be regarding "upgraditis").

Same for me. I've gotten back into music after pursuing HT for 20 years and the enjoyment has motivated me to rip my CDs for easier access, a process I'd resisted for a while ...

John
post #26 of 26
I though external DACs is always a niche within a niche and possibly ever diminishing market. Advantages of HDMI 2CH DAC I can think of (not in any order):
1. when player is restricted to 48kHz or 96kHz via SPDIF;
2. 2CH SACD (as PCM, generally not possible via SPDIF);
3. connectivity to AVR HDMI out when SPDIF isn't an option
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