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Sharp Aquos 70" calibration

post #1 of 30
1/30/12 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
I recently purchased a Sharp Aquos 70" LED television ( LC-70LE734U ) and performed a calilbration on it. I didn't feel the colors were setup as well from the factory as was my Sharp 52". Flesh tones were poor at the lower light levels and shadows were too dark and the light areas were too bright. None of the AV modes or basic controls did much to correct the problems, so I decided to calibrate it.

Since I also had a 52" display I decided it would be worthwhile to buy an inexpensive meter and calibrate them both. I suppose the calibrations are only as accurate as the meter, but after performing the calibrations on them both, the pictures are much improved, at least to my eyes. Certainly now, when I use the standard test disks for brightness, contrast, color, tint, decoder accuracy, etc., both displays show that they are calibrated.

The Sharp displays have full CMS controls and two sets of gray scale adjustments, so it's possible to calibrate them fairly accurately. The 70" Sharp has a lot of rather goofy options that affect the setup and the resulting picture quality and deserve to be turned off. The Expanded gamut feature is a prime offender - you simply cannot calibrate the CMS with feature enabled.
Another surprise problem is with the Aquamotion 240 Motion Enhancement feature - it drops the Y of all colors considerably, making it hard to hit your target values. The x/y remains aligned, but the Y drops with Aquamotion on - weird. The standard 120 Motion enhancement didn't have that negative effect and worked fine, and along with shutting off their Film Mode and Digital Noise reduction options, I found motion on the display quite good (sports, etc).

I calibrated the Movie mode and the results were quite good. I had some small problems with Red CMS adjustment. The end result was a Red DeltaE of 5.6, with the remaining primaries and secondaries all under 2.6.

I used the X-Rite Eye-One Display 2 color meter and HCFR colormeter software along with the excellent GetGray calibration disk and also the AVS HD709 MP4 software patterns. I calibrated with the GetGray disk from my DVD player sourcing the three wire component input first, and then checked to see how close the calibration was when using an HDMI input from my laptop using AVS HD709 MP4 patterns. There were some small differences, but not enough for me to want to calibrate differently for different inputs or sources.

I used the GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES by Kal, Editor at CurtPalme.com and also the Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS by Tom Huffman to help with the calibration. I do own both DVE and AVIA, but the GetGray disk is so easy to navigate I chose to use it. It has all the patterns you need to calibrate.

I attach the chart results.

bruce
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post #2 of 30
1/30/12 at 11:50pm
I have been doing multiple calibrations on a Sharp 60LE632 and have also come across the Red issue, must be common across the current Sharp line.

Did you find that Y would shift when you adjusted x & y, mine did and this made it very time consuming and frustrating to get it as close as possible. I guess this shows the Sharps do not have a well implemented CMS, you can get close but certainly not right on.

Looks like you did a nice job there and mine came out about the same with Red being the usual suspect, my 6500k came out very nice with most being < delta 1 and even 10 IRE is < delta 3.

Did you also discover that all the factory color temps use too much blue? I ended up using LOW as it was easily the closest to 6500k across the range.

I did my cal in Game mode to avoid all the lag issues and as such it was a bit more of a challenge. You can easily detect the lag in every mode except Game by simply moving the mouse pointer around on screen.

Jason
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post #3 of 30
1/31/12 at 9:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Did you find that Y would shift when you adjusted x & y, mine did and this made it very time consuming and frustrating to get it as close as possible. I guess this shows the Sharps do not have a well implemented CMS, you can get close but certainly not right on.

Yeah, the Y shifted when adjusting the CMS x/y of most colors - some more than others. I found I could adjust the angle and distance from the reference point on the CIE chart for saturation and hue, but then the Y- Value (brightness) would be off, so I had to make a compromise.

My new 70" display was far better behaved in that regard compared to my 2 year old 52" Sharp model (LC-52LE700UN). They've obviously done some work on the CMS in the newer models I would think.

Quote:


Did you also discover that all the factory color temps use too much blue? I ended up using LOW as it was easily the closest to 6500k across the range.

The new 70" model had a temperature on LOW that was slightly high, in the 7500 range, and was easily corrected, but the 52" model was quite high in the 8500 range for the LOW setting. I really had to crank the temperature controls to bring it down to 6500 for the 52" model.


Quote:


I did my cal in Game mode to avoid all the lag issues and as such it was a bit more of a challenge. You can easily detect the lag in every mode except Game by simply moving the mouse pointer around on screen.

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed that the lag was greater on the new 70" compared to my 52". I would have thought that increased processing power would have corrected the lag problem. I suppose the Quattron screen may take extra time, plus all the extra features. I thought about doing my adjustments in the Game Mode, but felt the motion enhancement (at least 120Hz) was a feature I needed for sports.

Overall, I feel the new 70" model aligns better than my 2 year old 52" model. I can't say that the end result looks any better (although it sure is bigger). I especially like that when calibrating the new model that you can click enter on the adjustment and make the adjustment footprint on the screen smaller, and then click again and the adjustment reverts to a tiny footprint at the corner of the screen. This really helps. On the older model, the adjustment footprint covered a quarter of the screen and greatly affected the x/yY readout values, such that you had to adjust first and then exit from the adjustment screen to get a proper reading.

bruce
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post #4 of 30
2/7/12 at 4:01pm
When calibrating the brightness and contrast using the Disney WOW disc on my "733", I will adjust the brightness and contrast so that you can see the appropriate stars, checkers, etc. and everything looks great on the test pattern. As soon as I hit the “menu” button to exit the picture controls the brightness/contrast change and I can see too many stars, checkers, etc. on the test patterns. I have all of the usual settings (motion, OPC, film mode, etc.) turned off. I am using the Movie mode. Any ideas on why the picture is fluctuating once I exit the picture settings?
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post #5 of 30
2/7/12 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg. View Post

When calibrating the brightness and contrast using the Disney WOW disc on my "733", I will adjust the brightness and contrast so that you can see the appropriate stars, checkers, etc. and everything looks great on the test pattern. As soon as I hit the “menu” button to exit the picture controls the brightness/contrast change and I can see too many stars, checkers, etc. on the test patterns. I have all of the usual settings (motion, OPC, film mode, etc.) turned off. I am using the Movie mode. Any ideas on why the picture is fluctuating once I exit the picture settings?

This has been a fairly common issue over the years. Our older Mitsubishi CRT HDTV maxes out contrast when in the service menu. so you have to measure, go into the service menu, make adjustments, leave the service menu, measure again, etc.
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post #6 of 30
2/8/12 at 3:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg. View Post

Any ideas on why the picture is fluctuating once I exit the picture settings?

The large Menu footprint on the screen changes the average picture level, so you need to make the footprint smaller . Luckily for you, this model of Sharp offers this feature to make adjustments easier so you don't require service mode.

After you hit Menu and scroll down to Contrast (for example), hit Enter and the footprint will go smaller, then hit Enter again and the footprint will go even smaller so that the single contrast control will be down in the corner, and now it won't affect your setting. Hit Returns to back out of the small footprint.

bruce
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post #7 of 30
2/8/12 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce View Post

The large Menu footprint on the screen changes the average picture level, so you need to make the footprint smaller . Luckily for you, this model of Sharp offers this feature to make adjustments easier so you don't require service mode.

After you hit Menu and scroll down to Contrast (for example), hit Enter and the footprint will go smaller, then hit Enter again and the footprint will go even smaller so that the single contrast control will be down in the corner, and now it won't affect your setting. Hit Returns to back out of the small footprint.

bruce

I have been reducing the footprint down to smallest setting, yet the settings still change once they are set and I exit the menu.
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post #8 of 30
2/8/12 at 11:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I have been reducing the footprint down to smallest setting, yet the settings still change once they are set and I exit the menu.

I haven't used the Disney disk, so I don't know about stars, checkers, etc. It's hard to comment, but I haven't noticed any difference after I do a setup and then exit the setup mode. I use both the GetGray disk and the AVS HD709 disk.

Be sure that all features are shut off (I know you said you did). No Active Contrast, Power Saver mode off, Aquamotion off, Film mode off, OPC off.

bruce
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post #9 of 30
2/9/12 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg. View Post

I have been reducing the footprint down to smallest setting, yet the settings still change once they are set and I exit the menu.

Is your set still in STORE mode by chance?

On the initial setup there is a choice between Store mode and Home mode, you need to be in Home mode.

Hope that's it.

Jason
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post #10 of 30
6/5/12 at 2:23am

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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:20am
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post #11 of 30
6/5/12 at 4:15am

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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:20am
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post #12 of 30
6/5/12 at 5:21am

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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:20am
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post #13 of 30
6/12/12 at 9:34am
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:20am
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post #14 of 30
6/12/12 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfull View Post

Can anyone post the actual values they input to get the flat response curves?
I don't have the equipment to do it myself.......Is anyone following this thread anymore?...
From the "sticky" threads section above:

'Sharing display menu settings?'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906
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post #15 of 30
6/12/12 at 10:58am
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:20am
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post #16 of 30
6/12/12 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfull View Post

OK, but my very specific question regards the high-white setting. It looks like raw white LED in color composition.
I realize that it is not -- it's a composite of the LED shown through 4 filters and recombined. But it's lifeless and gray.
Is there a way to effect the high-white? Someone said that the curve from warm values to blue is steep on these sets.
Does that mean that there is no way to adjust some warmth into the high-white setting? Thanks from an amateur...

What color temperature setting are you using? You want to use the warmest be it warm, warm 1 or warm2.. not sure what this set has for choices. If you are using normal or cool then you are going to be way blue.

Took a quick look at the users guide. Page 27
Color Temp.
(Color Temperature)
For a better white balance, use color temperature correction.
High: White with bluish tone
Mid-High:
Middle:
Mid-Low:
Low: White with reddish tone

Assuming these are available presets.. try low or mid low.
Edited by airscapes - 6/12/12 at 11:29am
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post #17 of 30
6/12/12 at 12:07pm
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:19am
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post #18 of 30
6/12/12 at 12:21pm
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:19am
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post #19 of 30
6/13/12 at 2:50pm
this is interesting. in the 70'' 847 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397140/official-sharp-aquos-lc-60le847u-lc-70le847u-owners-thread/930), I posted my results from calibration. On my set, 70C8470U costco version of the 847, it was blue that could not be tamed. red, green, cyan and magenta all fell into place quite easily once I figured out how the controls worked.

For grayscale, no color temp preset could be adjusted to account for the excess of blue except for the lowest one. the single grayscale adjustment was good enough to get decent delta E's without using the 10 step one.
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post #20 of 30
6/15/12 at 2:05pm
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:19am
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post #21 of 30
6/18/12 at 9:56am
I've spent more time with my 70C8470U (costco version of the 845). I'll start with a summary of my calibation attempts:

for all results below, white point and black point are set correctly using AVSHD disc. Dial in color gamut (as best as i can) using CMS, set grayscale using LOW color temp and single point. Automagic settings are disabled like OPC. sharpness was set to 0, no tweaks to gamma. I left the 120Hz/240Hz setting at whatever the default was for that mode. I'm using Calman 4.x, and a brand new OEM D3 meter I just got from SpectraCal (I also have a DTP-94 and the two meters are producing similar results).

MOVIE MODE: peak light output is 20ftL (this was with the backlight set at 0. increasing it up to the max of +10, only increased peak light output by maybe 1 or 2 ftL. Blue was impossible to get accurate (from memory delta E was was 7-8). Grayscale from 20-100% stimulus was less than 2 units off, and gamma tracked flat at my target of 2.2.

GAME MODE; with the backlight set to 0, I got about 30ftL. Again, increasing it to the max didn't increase it by more than 1-2 ftL. In this mode, it was Green that could not be tamed. with delta E around 10. Low % stimulus were pushing blue (blue control (on 30% stimulus pattern, blue lo at the minimum still had too much blue), so I just balanced red and green with it and had to live with the errors. Fortunately the overall delta E was less than 2 over the 10-100% range.

I haven't tried the Standard or User Modes yet.

My questions are:

* why does the backlight not seem to have much affect on overall light output?
* is there some trick to control an oversaturated color? I'd prefer the GAME mode due to the higher level of light output. The overstaturated green is not objectionable, I'm just hoping to do better.
* what is MOVIE mode doing to restrict the overall light output? i.e. is there some control that I can adjust to to undo Movie Mode restriction?

Thanks,
jeff
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post #22 of 30
6/19/12 at 10:56am
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:19am
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post #23 of 30
6/19/12 at 12:08pm
Hi John,
What mode are you using? I'd like to hear what your peak light output is on a 100% white screen/field. I'm finding I need about 30ftL and right now, Movie mode just isn't doing it. When I use Movie mode, I reset color gamut so standard, not expanded. I also have the backlight set to 0 on either Movie or Game (the two modes I've calibrated so far). Tonight I'm gonna look at user and standard. I'll post back results.

when using the 10 point color temp control (in the lowest color temp), do you just balance r g b, even if it means that they are not dialed in at "zero" (calman 4.x has you shoot for 0, rather than 100% for r g and b). I just could not get blue down to zero at 30%stim.

Best,
jeff
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post #24 of 30
6/19/12 at 4:05pm
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:19am
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post #25 of 30
6/19/12 at 4:44pm
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:18am
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post #26 of 30
6/19/12 at 7:53pm
]Thanks John,

I broke calman and the d3 out again tonight. I checked the gamma on game mode which I've already calibrated as best I can and it is crazy. Flat up to about 30% then dips down to about 1.5 up to about 80%. Because of this I will discard it and go back to movie mode. I found that by increasing contrast to 33 out of 40 I can get to nearly 30ftL. Gamma is still flat, but I had to recalibrate the gamut and grayscale. All the colors are tameable now. I'll post screen shot from results.

Overall I'm very happy, flat gamma at 2.2. Colors tamed.

sharpmoviemode.pdf 286k .pdf file
Edited by greeno - 6/19/12 at 10:46pm
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post #27 of 30
6/20/12 at 9:33am
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:18am
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post #28 of 30
6/20/12 at 10:41am
Great John. I forgot to add that I've put my settings used to generate the above plots in the xx847 master owners thread in the LCD forum, here:
LINK
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post #29 of 30
6/20/12 at 1:10pm
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417923/sharp-lc-70le845u-overcoming-the-blues-on-the-70-edge-lit-3d-quattron
Edited by johnfull - 7/4/12 at 5:38am
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post #30 of 30
6/22/12 at 1:13pm
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Edited by johnfull - 7/2/12 at 11:18am
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