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*Official* Pioneer N-50 Network Audio Player Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstav View Post

Well, not entirely true... Most radio stations operate through such servers.

After I installed MEZZMO, N.50 cooperated partially , but erratically as described through our exchanges.

Windows server 2008 is DLNA enabled.

WD live is having no problems whatsoever with the server...
My point was not to give a definitive list of what Windows Server 2008 is used for. The uses I mentioned were just examples to highlight its use being OUTSIDE the 'normal' home and 'radio station operation' is just another such example.
Of course you can get DLNA working on boxes that run this Operating System as it is same old flexible Windows we all know & love spending days configuring to get it as we want it (well some of us love to, but not all of the time). The problem is you need to know what you're doing or get help from someone who does, even more than you would for 'normal' Windows running on a desktop/laptop. It's why companies & government offices usually employ/contract someone, just for its day to day maintenance.
From my experience of working with Windows Server 2008 and the other 'server machine' editions of Windows, you ALWAYS expect some hands on fiddling especially after installing something new, even if it's just to check the system & application logs to be doubly sure everthing is working as it should. Plug n play has helped to simplify & speed up the installation process, but it has NOT removed the need for basic checks. I would not assume, for example, just because 'WD live is having no problems' after installation on the same system, that: it's not causing problems or side effects with anything else; it won't have any problems in the future; and any other new thing that I install similarly won't have any problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstav View Post

I must repeat that most of my issues are not server related, since after purchasing MEZZMO, JRIVER and Vuse, I got it to work, since it deslikes WMP which was built within Windows server 2008.

What upsets me is :

A) No radio
B) No artwork
C) No iPad app
D) Difficult upgrades- not always succesful..

I trust many users are having similar issues...

Lets hope Pioneer resolves them soon
A) No one else so far has reported the lack of internet radio problem, so this is curious. Have you established yet as to whether your N-50 has access rights and/or connection to the internet, as suggested by rupert1020? If the internet connection to the N-50 is ok, then it might having a problem connecting to the vTuner service that Pioneer have signed up to (provides the radio stations database for the N-50). Test to see if you can get www.vtuner.com or pioneer.vtuner.com on a web browser on the same network. If these sites are down, then possibly something is blocking them (firewall or even your ISP) or your DNS is not picking them up. What's is your location? - it's possible that it is a local regional problem. Sometimes the main vTuner server goes down, as it is a global and very popular service, but the designated Pioneer one should be more robust. However you'll need to register for your N-50 to be able to use it - just follow the instructions on the pioneer.vtuner site (press the 'accept' button after the Disclaimer). If none of this works then you'd best contact Pioneer about the problem as your N-50 may be faulty.

B) No artwork on the ControlApp is certainly a known issue. If however you are referring to artwork that should be appearing on the N-50's screen, then other than suggesting you make sure that it is embedded in the music track's data in the first place and can confirm it's there from a third party DLNA controller, I can't really help. Personally, I have not investigated what specific size of image, dimensions, image file type, etc, if any, that needs to part of the track data, for it to work. If the artwork is also not appearing on a third party controller, then it's not a problem with the N-50.

C) No iPad app - presumably that means it's no longer available from the apple store? Don't use one at home, myself. The Android app is certainly available from play, I installed an update recently.

D) Difficult upgrades. It's a shame that there's no auto-update via the internet, but I have not had any problem updating the firmware via USB stick. Admittedly I have only had the N-50 for a few months and have just done the one update. What's the actual problem? - is your N-50 having a problem reading the USB memory stick, for example?
Edited by Cebolla - 5/6/13 at 3:59pm
post #122 of 301
One really nice thing would be the possibility of using the next/previous buttons and the 0-9 buttons (what are they used for by the way?) to navigate from one favorite radio station to an other.
post #123 of 301
just got one of these to try out:

did a firmware update by downloading to USB stick: no issues

the Pioneer Control app is quite basic but it works: no artwork from FLAC files (title and artist show up OK) but it does stream playlists from my Olive 06HD

this is a nice unit:: still checking it out
post #124 of 301
Hey,
Since yesterday my N50 is rebooting each time I click on Internet Radio. Do you have that bug too?
Horrible!!
post #125 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexislg View Post

Hey,
Since yesterday my N50 is rebooting each time I click on Internet Radio. Do you have that bug too?
Horrible!!

no...mine works OK for internet radio
post #126 of 301
I made a full reset and it's working again. Of course I lost all my favorites radios... Maybe this was due to the 1.021 firmware update.
Guys from Pioneers are good for the sound qulity but there are neebes for IT ! I much prefer the Google type interfaces...
post #127 of 301
I've got both the vtuner website radio station favorites & box / remote control set up radio favorites lists and experienced no 'rebooting' problems, both before and after updating with the latest 1.021 firmware. The only thing I noticed after applying the1.021 firmware update was that the box set up favorites list had gone (but not the vtuner one). Which favorite list(s) did you have setup before you got the radio problems?
post #128 of 301
Of course in my case radio never worked....
post #129 of 301
Hi dstav,

Still no radio I see. How far did you get with those checks to help find out what your radio problem could be, in my last reply to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post

A) No one else so far has reported the lack of internet radio problem, so this is curious. Have you established yet as to whether your N-50 has access rights and/or connection to the internet, as suggested by rupert1020? If the internet connection to the N-50 is ok, then it might having a problem connecting to the vTuner service that Pioneer have signed up to (provides the radio stations database for the N-50). Test to see if you can get www.vtuner.com or pioneer.vtuner.com on a web browser on the same network. If these sites are down, then possibly something is blocking them (firewall or even your ISP) or your DNS is not picking them up. What's is your location? - it's possible that it is a local regional problem. Sometimes the main vTuner server goes down, as it is a global and very popular service, but the designated Pioneer one should be more robust. However you'll need to register for your N-50 to be able to use it - just follow the instructions on the pioneer.vtuner site (press the 'accept' button after the Disclaimer). If none of this works then you'd best contact Pioneer about the problem as your N-50 may be faulty.
post #130 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexislg View Post

I made a full reset and it's working again. Of course I lost all my favorites radios... Maybe this was due to the 1.021 firmware update.
Guys from Pioneers are good for the sound qulity but there are neebes for IT ! I much prefer the Google type interfaces...

Is your player still stable after the reboot? My N30 just started intermittently rebooting, but I most often use it to play files from my media server, and that's when it occurs.
post #131 of 301
This is the second Pioneer network player that's been reported as randomly rebooting in a matter of days.

Have a look at the relevant posts on the UK avforums site, starting:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/19175879-post59.html
Edited by Cebolla - 7/2/13 at 4:03pm
post #132 of 301
Thanks for the link. I never knew of the UK version of this site.

Well, so far, so good after the update and reset. If anything comes up, I'll def post it here.
post #133 of 301
Hi,

I've recently aquired a Pioneer N-50, and am quite pleased with the way it sounds. However I'm new to media servers, DLNA, and Upnp,and there's one thing I don't understand : how to improve the browsing tree. I usually listen to albums, so right now I go Music => Albums, which means I have to know the name of the album by heart and then go down the long list of albums which is really slow. How can I get a navigation tree that would allow to browse Artists => Albums or even Genre => Artist => Albums ?

Is is a problem with the N-50, or with my NAS (Iomega) or with DLNA standard ?

Thanks for anyone's help
post #134 of 301
The N-50, along with most of the mainstream hifi seperate streamers, only has access to the music files on the network indirectly, via UPnP/DLNA servers. Hence the browsing tree structure is completely governed by the media server itself and has nothing to do with the N-50, which just displays what it is given.

Hopefully, your media server is one that can be configured to provide a navigational structure with music categories more to your liking. There may be some here that can help you with configuring it, or at least point you in the right direction to obtain further information. What UPnP/DLNA server is it and on what network connected device is it running on? It's entirely possible that it's running on the Iomega NAS itself (I'm not familiar with Iomega ones), so it may also be useful if you could say which Iomega NAS model it is.

What music file types are you playing and how have you obtained them? The music category tag data is contained only in certain music file types, such as flac & mp3, and not in others, such as wav. You also need to be sure that the relevant tag data is there in the first place for the UPnP/DLNA server to automatically work out which categories a particular track belongs to.
Edited by Cebolla - 7/13/13 at 2:17am
post #135 of 301
Hello,

Thanks for your reply. I had a feeling the problem was on the media server side.

My Nas is the Iomega Home Media Network Hard Drive Cloud Edition

http://go.iomega.com/en-us/products/network-storage-desktop/home-network-hard-drives/home-media-cloud/?partner=4760#tech_specsItem_tab

I'm not sure what UPnP/DLNA server is running but I assume it's running on the Iomega Nas. Twonky Media was provided with it but my understanding was that Twonky was installed on a Windows PC to enable sharing the files on that PC. I deactivated starting up Twonky on my PC automatically because the N50 seemed to crash whenever Twonky was running on the PC.

I can't find any reference in the Iomega software "Storage Manager" to the "navigational structure" or "browsing tree". I suppose my next step should be to contact Iomega support (now Lenovo), unless another Iomega owner can help me.

Is it possible to install a better, more easily configurable music server on a NAS?

Or should buy a better NAS with better browsing capabilities (I'm still amazed how lousy this one is, it might work for people who have 20 albums or who like to listen to "songs" in random order, but not for the average music listener.)
What brands/models are good for music streaming ?

My files are mostly FLAC extracted from CDs using EAC, tagged automatically through freedb, some tags tweaked manually using MediaMonkey. I don't think the files/tagging are the problem. I can find all the music in the right place, but I need to be able to browse by genre or by artist before I get to the albums. Browsing by composer would be useful for classical music, but I can't see that anywhere on the N50, only in MediaMonkey from my PC.

Thanks again for your help.
post #136 of 301
A bit of research reveals that your Iomega NAS should be running a TwonkyMedia UPnP/DLNA server, as you suspected. I don't know what that version of Twonky provided for the pc is for, but that should be independant of the one actually running on your NAS. May be they are not intended to be operated at the same time, which may have led to the crashes you were experiencing with the N-50. The usual way to configure Twonky is to use a web browser to access its web user interface, via port 9000 - eg if the ip of the NAS is 192.168.1.xx, use http://192.168.1.xx:9000 in the browser's address bar.

If you have no luck with Twonky on the NAS and you don't mind running a media server on the PC, then I'd recommend the free music only server, MinimServer and the free version of Serviio (for all media, but small footprint). Both of these UPnP/DLNA media servers have useable default navigational structures and work well with the N-50 without much configuration after installation. All you need to do is make sure your music files are available to them via a network shared folder on the NAS. I would not recommend using the Windows provided media server via WMP/WMS, since it does not support some music file types, is not very configurable and is unreliable.

It may be worth persevering with your Iomega device, if you are willing to 'tweak' it and are not frightened by Linux, as there appears to be a decent community dedicated to doing this, see:
http://iomega.nas-central.org/wiki/Main_Page
This page outlines how to obtain root access rights for your particular NAS, for example:
http://iomega.nas-central.org/wiki/Root_access_enabling_%28Home_Media_CE%29
Hopefully there's some info there to help you run a decent media server on your NAS, if its current version of Twonky can't be improved.
Edited by Cebolla - 7/13/13 at 11:36am
post #137 of 301
Thanks again for taking time to reply and pointing me to the right direction. I shall look into tweaking Twonky and/or getting help from the iomega community.
post #138 of 301
Hi
I have problem to see folders containing FLAC files on my laptop using N-50 Music server connection.. I can see and play just MP3 files. Do you have the same experience? Any Idea what is a problem?
Thanks
post #139 of 301
I don't have the same problem but my files are on a NAS. Are your flac files properly tagged? Are the flac files in the same folder as the mp3 files? If not, is the folder with the flac files properly selected by your media server?
I'm no expert but those are the first questions that come to mind.
post #140 of 301
Hi
it seams I had solved the problem installing FLAC codec to Windows Media player. It looks Pioneer Music server is related to WMP somehow. Could you recommend a NAS working properly with N50,pls? I would like to exclude my laptop and use just N50 and NAS.
post #141 of 301
No, the N-50 has nothing to do with WMP. The Pioneer is not a 'music server', but a music player. WMP is actually the music server and the 'folders' that you are seeing on the laptop from the N-50 are NOT the latop's networked shared folders. They are part of the DLNA media folder structure that the WMP behaving as a DLNA server is itself presenting to the N-50 (and to any other DLNA player, for that matter). You are seeing it because it is the 'ready loaded' UPnP/DLNA server you have with your particular installation of Windows on your laptop. I've only just seen your post otherwise I could have forewarned you against using WMP as the DLNA server on your computer for audio files. This is because it does not automatically support all the audio file types and resolutions (you've now seen that for yourself with FLAC), it is not very configurable and it is unreliable.

However, you can still run a decent DLNA server on your laptop and don't need to have to have a NAS for that. Very good UPnP/DLNA music only servers such as MinimServer (free) & JRiver and also the free version of the Serviio UPnP/DLNA server (supports all media, not just music, but has a small footprint) all work well with the Pioneer network audio players. It's worth giving at least one of them a try first before going through the extra expense of a NAS. Also, you can run several media servers at once on your laptop, so you don't need to worry about running them alongside the WMP one, for example.
Edited by Cebolla - 7/26/13 at 11:45am
post #142 of 301
Hi Cebolla
thanks for explanation. Do I understand well, the MinimServer (free) & JRive is just soft server instead of WMP? Actualy I have my music files on WD My book[fortunately with out Ethernet port] so could you explain to me how to configure MinimServer (free) & JRive me to be able play files from WD via laptop using network interconnection,pls? All is fine when using USB IN connected to laptop, but I would prefer network solution.

Thanks
post #143 of 301
I have one more question,I do not understand how it is possible I can adjust level of played music on laptop [WMP,WINAMP] using USB interconnection to N50. This should be just data flow so how it is possible? USB driver has been installed.
post #144 of 301
Hi Cebolla
thanks a lot, it is working with MiniServer and its clear for me how it works. I suppose if I chose origin of files external HDD connected to laptop,miniserver will read them from there.

Regards
post #145 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by micmic View Post

I have one more question,I do not understand how it is possible I can adjust level of played music on laptop [WMP,WINAMP] using USB interconnection to N50. This should be just data flow so how it is possible? USB driver has been installed.
When you use the N-50's USB audio driver, to use it as an async USB DAC, Windows will attempt to use it as any other Windows audio driver, which means you have the 'option' to adjust the volume! The only way it can achieve this is by losing the data being sent to the N-50, resulting in a loss of sound quality and so is quite a useless feature for this purpose. Therefore, you must make sure that the driver's default volume settings are at maximum in the Windows Sound setup and also make sure any volume control of playback software you are using is also kept to maximum in order to preserve the original sound data. Just for further information the volume control can be useful for some applications, such as when the mixing of various music sources is required, but this is clearly not required for the normal streaming of a music file's data to a DAC, where you want to keep all the original data.

BTW, if you are planning on using the N-50 as a USB DAC for your computer, it might be best not to use WMP for that either! I can recommend the free Foobar2000 software for playback. Another one to try would be JRiver (yes it is also a media server). Funnily enough Foobar2000 has got a very good UPnP server option, via the free foo_UPnP plugin, but I did not recommend it to be used with the N-50 earlier, because the track pause function does not work with it.
Edited by Cebolla - 7/26/13 at 4:44pm
post #146 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by micmic View Post

Hi Cebolla
thanks a lot, it is working with MiniServer and its clear for me how it works. I suppose if I chose origin of files external HDD connected to laptop,miniserver will read them from there.

Regards
No worries. I'm glad you managed to work it out. Yes you need to configure MinimServer manually to tell it where the music files are. Some media servers do this automatically, especially ones that are running on NASs.

Please keep us posted with any further problems/questions.
post #147 of 301
Quick question on N30 vs. N50: Is the only difference that the N50 (with digital inputs) can serve as an external DAC converter, and otherwise these units are the same? Thanks.
post #148 of 301
The N-50 is sturdier in construction than the N-30, due to its extra rigid heavy base plate. It also has a seperate internal power supply transformer for the analogue section (the DAC board) and digital section, whereas the N-30 has only one internal power supply transformer for both sections. The N-50's DAC circuitry includes a couple of sound enhancing profiles/modes, that the N-30 lacks.

There don't appear to be any other differences apart from the ones you've highlighted, of course.
post #149 of 301
The latest iteration of BubbleUPnP is better than perfect for playback of FLACs from a music library to a decent renderer. However that Pioneer STILL refuses to provide real gapless is worse than a bad joke because it means that Bubble UPnP and any other third party controller can't be used for 50% of my library with the N-50!

Major progress needs to be made, but it seems abundantly clear to me that they are not interested.

They need to provide proper gapless so that any decent third party control point can be used.

They also need to make it so that the slider (for track position selection) can be used.

At the moment it remains a very poor control system IMO.
post #150 of 301
Hi Sorepinky, it's been a while!

You're quite right about the lack of gapless support when the N-50/N-30 is used as a DLNA renderer. I've got used to using the Pioneer Controlapp with its gapless support when I want to playback albums over the network as well use intenet radio, etc on the N-50 and the BubbleUPnP control point app for playlist network streaming. No big deal for me, as both apps are on my Android phone and easy to swap from one to the other.

Unfortunately, most similar <$1500 hifi seperate network audio players don't have gapless support in DLNA renderer mode either, well known streamers such as the Marantz NA7004, Cambidge Audio's NP30 & Stream Magic 6. I've even heard that the Denon DNP-720AE doesn't support gapless even with its own control app (gapless only via remote control / buttons on box)! Ironically the latest Denon hifi mini seperate streamer, the DNP-F109 has FULL gapless support (and so have the new Denon CEOL 'all in one' micro system models). It will interesting to see if any of non-full gapless support devices eventually get full gapless support.

I too would like Pioneer to do something about this situation plus bare minimum, like you, I'd really like to have random positioning within the music track. However, they're certainly not the only streamer manufacturer that has control system problems.
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