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Sony VPL-VW1000ES Viewings - Page 2

post #31 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Its hard to believe but all I want to do is watch the game rather than watch how a particular projector displays the game. Anyone one of a variety of projectors I have currently on hand such as an Epson 5010, a BenQ W700, a Samsuna SP-A900B, a Vango, and a few others all fed by my Lumagen Radiance XS, will adequately light up my humongus (just kidding) 54 x 96 1.3 gain Studeotec 130. Pick a machine, I don't care. Nobody will be watching the projector display the game. For that night we all will be watching the game and not how the projector performs. The game is the event, not the projector. Your Sony VPL-vw95ES is one of the finest projectors around for displaying football. Don't regret for a moment that your 1000ES won't get there until after the game. The game will be preceded by the famous sung question, "Oh say can you see?"
We are all blessed with projectors that will let us see the gane better than anyone actually at the game. Just scream out a resounding YES and watch the game. GO NE!

You are definitely correct. I will not worry about the projector and will enjoy te game with my family an friends.
post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

You don't have approximately 13 people planning to come over and see it in person. To me that definitely says something. Especially since a few of them are driving around 4 hours!

Sure, but those are the AVS nuts like you and me. I think projectors like the JVC HD1/RS1 were game changing because they were such a jump in performance at an affordable pricepoint and knocked all their competitors for 6. JVC has never managed such a jump since then. How many people will really put money forwards of the kind needed to buy a 1000ES, I think will be a tiny tiny fraction.
post #33 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Not at its price I don't think so. I also think there just isn't much interest in 4K outside of the niche of these forums.

If you look at how much 3D has failed to be adopted generally, and that seems to be a far more "interesting" tech than 4k which only adds value on larger screens sitting very close-up.

But it is 4K ,with 2000 lumens and sequential contrast (with DI) of 1,000,000:1. That's a lot in one box at one time.

Art
post #34 of 64
Thread Starter 
Maybe if it were a JVC X1000 he'd be a little more excited.
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Maybe if it were a JVC X1000 he'd be a little more excited.

I would be even more excited if it were a LED based light source and 4K DLP!
post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I would be even more excited if it were a LED based light source and 4K DLP!

Yes, we all think that is years away and watch that show up in 2 years. The 1000ES will be an also-ran...

Its a darn good thing it is a BRIGHT projector, that might give it many more years than otherwise.
post #37 of 64
instead of criticizing Sony they should be applauded for pushing the envelope. this is their Corvette, Acura NSX it's a flagship product.
post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Not at its price I don't think so. I also think there just isn't much interest in 4K outside of the niche of these forums.

If you look at how much 3D has failed to be adopted generally, and that seems to be a far more "interesting" tech than 4k which only adds value on larger screens sitting very close-up.

Not sure I agree, the added resolution makes this competitive (who knows perhaps better?) in terms of sharpness with the most expensive DLP models out there. Add to that, the high native contrast and brightness and you have a pretty complete package.

If Runco, Sim2, DPI and Barco can all stay in business selling projectors upwards of 5 figures then I am sure a competitive product like this can sell well. A company the size of Sony could absorb price cuts over time pretty easily as well, it may take longer to hit lower price brackets but I think the VW1000 will have an impact on the market

Look at the view count for the original VW1000 thread, it may not translate to sales but a lot of people are looking at it.
post #39 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I would be even more excited if it were a LED based light source and 4K DLP!

Oh yeah.
post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Maybe if it were a JVC X1000 he'd be a little more excited.

Haha..I have no brand loyalty. I just meant game-changing products normally need to be affordable. This isn't. So while it is a very interesting product, I am not sure its that pivotal. The momentum for creating 4K products is already there and I suspect we will see many more 4K projectors next year anyway. But in the world of projectors, its removing the common bulb that is the next game-changer. And I am not criticising Sony at all....this is an exciting product for technofreaks like me.
post #41 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Haha..I have no brand loyalty. I just meant game-changing products normally need to be affordable. This isn't. So while it is a very interesting product, I am not sure its that pivotal. The momentum for creating 4K products is already there and I suspect we will see many more 4K projectors next year anyway. But in the world of projectors, its removing the common bulb that is the next game-changer. And I am not criticising Sony at all....this is an exciting product for technofreaks like me.

I wasn't picking on you just having fun. I am very hopeful that I will be playing with mine very shortly.
post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Haha..I have no brand loyalty. I just meant game-changing products normally need to be affordable. This isn't. So while it is a very interesting product, I am not sure its that pivotal. The momentum for creating 4K products is already there and I suspect we will see many more 4K projectors next year anyway. But in the world of projectors, its removing the common bulb that is the next game-changer. And I am not criticising Sony at all....this is an exciting product for technofreaks like me.

Again, I have to disagree, we tend to see people on the forum saying "just wait, next year they will all have this". We have had LED projectors and 3-chip 1080 DLP since 2009 and we haven't since any main stream manufacturers adopt either of these technologies or the price come down. If anything, the newer models have more features and the price goes up.

I think the most likely chance to find affordable 4K next year will be a second hand VW1000 rather a new native 4K Epson. Unless other manufacturers are putting serious money into 4K panels they will be licensing them from Sony anyway.
post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

...... I am very hopeful that I will be playing with mine very shortly.

Good thing I read that in the context of the AVS forum
post #44 of 64
This is the 2012 Qualia, next year will be the 2013 Ruby, priced sub $15K...the game changer.
post #45 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

This is the 2012 Qualia, next year will be the 2013 Ruby, priced sub $15K...the game changer.

I'm with you here. Especially since Sony is the one who opened the door, not someone like Sim2. I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year's CES has several 4K offerings, especially as more buzz over a pending 4K Blu-ray format start to take hold. If Sony wants to push for 4K software on Blu-ray, you can be damn sure they will have a projector at least half the cost of the 1000ES to justify it to the masses.
post #46 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

This is the 2012 Qualia, next year will be the 2013 Ruby, priced sub $15K...the game changer.

If this a true Q004 repeat we won't see the Ruby II until early 2014!
post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I'm with you here. Especially since Sony is the one who opened the door, not someone like Sim2. I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year's CES has several 4K offerings, especially as more buzz over a pending 4K Blu-ray format start to take hold. If Sony wants to push for 4K software on Blu-ray, you can be damn sure they will have a projector at least half the cost of the 1000ES to justify it to the masses.

That is exactly what I am expecting.

Do you think the VW1000ES is a risk from a 4K format standards perspective? It supports HDMI 4K 24p, but could there be anything else that means it would not be future proof for things like 4K blu-ray?
post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I'm with you here. Especially since Sony is the one who opened the door, not someone like Sim2. I wouldn't be surprised at all if next year's CES has several 4K offerings, especially as more buzz over a pending 4K Blu-ray format start to take hold. If Sony wants to push for 4K software on Blu-ray, you can be damn sure they will have a projector at least half the cost of the 1000ES to justify it to the masses.

I think this is precisely the point. Sony is cornering the home 4K market before any of it's competitors have a chance to react.
post #49 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

Good thing I read that in the context of the AVS forum

Love it!
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

That is exactly what I am expecting.

Do you think the VW1000ES is a risk from a 4K format standards perspective? It supports HDMI 4K 24p, but could there be anything else that means it would not be future proof for things like 4K blu-ray?

I have not read anything official on this, but Wolfgang and someone else (I think DonaldK??) reported that Sony has stated that not only is the 1000 firmware upgradeable to possible new input standards (lets say 48hz 3d input or something like that??), but that the whole input board is modular and designed to be able to be replaced if a whole new input comes out (who knows at what cost). Of course that doesnt mean they WILL bring a new board out... but if that is true that they COULD...that is very nice.

I agree that buying this projector at this price is a bad idea if you just want 4k. But while resolutions have certainly trickled down into cheaper projectors, there still arent any cheaper projectors at the calibrated brightness level this delivers, and I wouldnt expect there to be anytime soon. Then add the top notch optics, etc....
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I agree that buying this projector at this price is a bad idea if you just want 4k. But while resolutions have certainly trickled down into cheaper projectors, there still arent any cheaper projectors at the calibrated brightness level this delivers, and I wouldnt expect there to be anytime soon. Then add the top notch optics, etc....

Exactly.....

So even if Sony comes out with the "Ruby 2" at $10K next year it will only do 1000 lumens calibrated...if your lucky. And it will not have the same optics.

Yes this projector is expensive but it is still a game changer....There is no other projector that has the lumens this does and the CR it has at any price let alone 4K, 3D, etc.
post #52 of 64
Hifi, that was Wolfgang. The pixel size in this chip has already been reduced to 4 um (figure from the presentation at ISE), so wonder if there is any point in going smaller and therefor cheaper.
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

I think this is precisely the point. Sony is cornering the home 4K market before any of it's competitors have a chance to react.

Now how is TI going to reduce the current 1.34" 4K chip to something in the .65" size to reduce costs and bring them to HT level... Sony went from 1.55 to 0.64 if I remember correctly.
post #54 of 64
Thread Starter 
Future proof...
post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Future proof...

So you got it?!
post #56 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I have not read anything official on this, but Wolfgang and someone else (I think DonaldK??) reported that Sony has stated that not only is the 1000 firmware upgradeable to possible new input standards (lets say 48hz 3d input or something like that??), but that the whole input board is modular and designed to be able to be replaced if a whole new input comes out (who knows at what cost). Of course that doesnt mean they WILL bring a new board out... but if that is true that they COULD...that is very nice.

I agree that buying this projector at this price is a bad idea if you just want 4k. But while resolutions have certainly trickled down into cheaper projectors, there still arent any cheaper projectors at the calibrated brightness level this delivers, and I wouldnt expect there to be anytime soon. Then add the top notch optics, etc....

I have it from vey reliable sources that such a board will be produced and be available in the future. Its basically a question of waiting for the necessary chips or chip to be produced. The same thing happened with the Qualia which was intially limited by a cap of 1080p 24. Later an upgrade was made available to handle 1080 p 60. Sony has indeed future proofed it. I fully expect other manufacturers will have 4K chips available over the next few years and I would hope that TI will also make a consumer 4K DLP available also. If it will first come out in a three chip DLP, one could expect to be much more expensive than the Sony.

Of course we will see a sub $15K 4K projector next year, But it won't be of the Sony 1000ES quality. That mother is a flag ship with an expensive lens and lots of light and various types of high contrasts etc. Once 4K chips become available they will be put in cheaper machines. But cheaper machines will be of lesser quality even though they will display 4K. Cheaper machines will get more machines out there because more people can afford them and will grow the small 4K present market. But is that the issue? A great machine that will stand the test of time or a cheaper machine that won't be as good (lesser lens, lesser light) but that will display 4K. I vote with my meager dollars. I am buying one and it will last me for about 4 years or more. The Sony is a game changer. It is a statement piece and lesser machines will be built off the statement but those machines won't be statements. The other high end manufacturers have statement 1080p machines but they MSRP for twice or more times the Sony. The Sony is a bargain. That's my take as a consumer. Sure I sell them and sure I will buy it for a little cheaper than a non industry consumer but that has nothing to do with me buying it. It just makes the purchase a little but not much easier. It also hurts because I don't need it. I just want it.
post #57 of 64
The early adopters will pay to have this. The others will come along as lower priced units (likely with lower lumens and lower quality optics) appear which is totally consistant with the history of all of this.

It could happen that a higher quality unit would appear within a year giving buyers remorse to the first wave buyers but this does not have historical precedent.

Art
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

The early adopters will pay to have this. The others will come along as lower priced units (likely with lower lumens and lower quality optics) appear which is totally consistant with the history of all of this.

It could happen that a higher quality unit would appear within a year giving buyers remorse to the first wave buyers but this does not have historical precedent.

Art

Yes and I would contend that is more likely than Mark suggested in his post. I am an early adopter, and the number of times I have bought the "first" of something, only to find a year later, a product that does even more with no compromises for less money.

This Sony will be a fantastic projector, no doubt about it. But while I take a punt at the price level of a VW95 or an RS55, this is too much of a gamble for me.

I mean we talk here about keeping a projector for 4 years before the next upgrade because of the investment cost of this one? I find that hard to believe for most of the people I see talking about buying this one who are such technology enthusiasts. There will be "some" feature that comes along inbetween that will be irresistable, and hopefully one that signals the end of the UHP bulb. There is also the issue that projector panel ageing becomes a bit of an unknown with many hours clocked up. Both JVCs and Sony's in the past have suffered with gamma drift, that is not bulb related, but panel ageing related. Once the shift becomes significant, it becomes harder to pull it back into line without the risk of losing some on/off contrast. JVC still has this. I don't know if Sony still do, but it was believed to be a fundamental issue with LCoS technology. I still maintain the real game changer is a projector with a highly stable, consistent, non-consumable light source, with panels that don't suffer ageing and achieves a consistency and lifespan we see from modern flat panel displays.

I will invest in real 4K in the future, but once the cost of ownership comes down and there is actually some 4K material I can easily play on it!
post #59 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

So you got it?!

Not yet. Very soon hopefully. I will give an alert here and on Twitter before I start to open the box. I want to try and share this experience with whoever else wants to. Should be fun!
post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Yes and I would contend that is more likely than Mark suggested in his post. I am an early adopter, and the number of times I have bought the "first" of something, only to find a year later, a product that does even more with no compromises for less money.

This Sony will be a fantastic projector, no doubt about it. But while I take a punt at the price level of a VW95 or an RS55, this is too much of a gamble for me.

I mean we talk here about keeping a projector for 4 years before the next upgrade because of the investment cost of this one? I find that hard to believe for most of the people I see talking about buying this one who are such technology enthusiasts. There will be "some" feature that comes along inbetween that will be irresistable, and hopefully one that signals the end of the UHP bulb. There is also the issue that projector panel ageing becomes a bit of an unknown with many hours clocked up. Both JVCs and Sony's in the past have suffered with gamma drift, that is not bulb related, but panel ageing related. Once the shift becomes significant, it becomes harder to pull it back into line without the risk of losing some on/off contrast. JVC still has this. I don't know if Sony still do, but it was believed to be a fundamental issue with LCoS technology. I still maintain the real game changer is a projector with a highly stable, consistent, non-consumable light source, with panels that don't suffer ageing and achieves a consistency and lifespan we see from modern flat panel displays.

I will invest in real 4K in the future, but once the cost of ownership comes down and there is actually some 4K material I can easily play on it!

Have there been any real measurements on this panel aging problem? I am one of those people that while I don't post as much as some I am on this forum almost every day lurking for the next best thing. Given that, I do think I am willing to live with this projector for 5 - 6 years which is what I figure I will need to do. I tend to log about 700-800 hours a year on my projector which will put me at 4000-5000 hours. Are there any Sony Qualia owners out there that logged numbers like this? I can stand to loose some Onff over the life of the projector if it is not too significant. I would also like some assurance that the projector can be expected within reason to last this long. I was thinking since they come with 3 year warranties it should be reasonable to expect this kind of life out of the machine.
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