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Edogg's Dual LMS AIY (Assemble It Yourself) Build - Page 6

post #151 of 577
3/23/12 at 12:57pm
You can go smaller than 4 cubes but it is hard to get there while leaving adequate space behind the deep driver so the pole vent has a decent amount of room to breath. Making it smaller to run more power may increase your chances of overheating the coil for not much more benefit IMO.
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post #152 of 577
3/23/12 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You get that low in space, your going to need to give it a WHOLE lot of power, 4 cubes has proven to be a great excursion limiting sized box where it will get you below 10hz and will keep the driver protected.

I'll be powering it with the LG FP14K... So 4400 watts at 4 ohm. Or I could bridge it and give it the full 14K...

Might just to do that until I can get the second LMS 5400... That should be adequate power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

And even back then, your appreciation for a fine speaker was born!! haha, i bet that yamaha system wasnt moving 3 inches peak to peak at the time Otherwise you might be as far from this forum as possible!

I really do think that was the beginning. Funny how you pick things up so young. My love for LFE and absoulte hatred for spiders started at like 3 years old...
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post #153 of 577
3/23/12 at 4:59pm
You only need a single channel for a 5400.
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post #154 of 577
3/23/12 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

You can go smaller than 4 cubes but it is hard to get there while leaving adequate space behind the deep driver so the pole vent has a decent amount of room to breath. Making it smaller to run more power may increase your chances of overheating the coil for not much more benefit IMO.

Is that 4 cubes before driver displacement and bracing or after?
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post #155 of 577
3/24/12 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

Is that 4 cubes before driver displacement and bracing or after?

The way the ED site is set up, you choose what sub (their brand of course) and it calculates the displacement of that sub. Bracing is an option on the site, so I would have to assume that it is accounted for in the design. With that being said, no I haven't made the calculations to accommodate the Ultra. When it comes time to order I'll be sure to give Brett Bell or one of the other guys at ED a shout to fill him in on what I want done. They built four for Edogg so I'm sure I could find someone with firsthand knowledge building a box for the Ultra(s).

Yo Edogg, you didn't leave any "headroom" in your thread title for expansion... It needs to be revised to Edogg's "Quad" LMS AIY. Keep us updated!

Man, this forum is going to cause me some major marital strife... Mentioned to the wife that I was thinking about selling my current sub and she was not happy... Why can't they ever understand? I just want to get to a point where I feel I no longer have the need to upgrade... That isn't too much to ask, is it?
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post #156 of 577
3/24/12 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

The way the ED site is set up, you choose what sub (their brand of course) and it calculates the displacement of that sub. Bracing is an option on the site, so I would have to assume that it is accounted for in the design. With that being said, no I haven't made the calculations to accommodate the Ultra. When it comes time to order I'll be sure to give Brett Bell or one of the other guys at ED a shout to fill him in on what I want done. They built four for Edogg so I'm sure I could find someone with firsthand knowledge building a box for the Ultra(s).

Yo Edogg, you didn't leave any "headroom" in your thread title for expansion... It needs to be revised to Edogg's "Quad" LMS AIY. Keep us updated!

Man, this forum is going to cause me some major marital strife... Mentioned to the wife that I was thinking about selling my current sub and she was not happy... Why can't they ever understand? I just want to get to a point where I feel I no longer have the need to upgrade... That isn't too much to ask, is it?

Well they built 4 cabs for me, but I when I called to place the order they had already built a few of them before. They have all the specs on hand. I'm sure if you need the cabs to be modified a little bit that it wouldnt be a problem.

I tried changing the title to QUAD build but it wouldn't let me.

Just do what you gotta do and save your apologies for later.
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post #157 of 577
3/25/12 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

Is that 4 cubes before driver displacement and bracing or after?

It can be 4 cubes before of after, It won't make enough of a difference to worry about.
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post #158 of 577
3/25/12 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Just do what you gotta do and save your apologies for later.

haha, easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, a motto I live by
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post #159 of 577
3/28/12 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

2nd pair of cabs ordered! Should be here in about a week and a half.

Now to save up for another pair of LMS's. UGH! lol

Yo edogg! We're counting down the days with you my friend. How long is it going to take for you to save up for the LMS's? Oh, and did you already buy the second FP14K?

In the mean time, can you post a pic (if it's not too much trouble) of the back of your current clone? I know it's a hell of a good product, but to bide my time I'd like to study it vs. the original.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

haha, easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, a motto I live by

Tried that once... Can only use that card like a once every two years or so. Used my last card when I went out and paid cash for my (her) car. Luckily she liked it and got over it quick.

Not sure how much she would like me dropping anymore money on LFE in our theater. "She" is satisfied and doesn't see the need for more and we're technically on a budget to buy a home in AZ.

Might have to pull the card here soon though. I'm itching for some sub-20Hz fun.
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post #160 of 577
3/28/12 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Yo edogg! We're counting down the days with you my friend. How long is it going to take for you to save up for the LMS's? Oh, and did you already buy the second FP14K?

In the mean time, can you post a pic (if it's not too much trouble) of the back of your current clone? I know it's a hell of a good product, but to bide my time I'd like to study it vs. the original.



Tried that once... Can only use that card like a once every two years or so. Used my last card when I went out and paid cash for my (her) car. Luckily she liked it and got over it quick.

Not sure how much she would like me dropping anymore money on LFE in our theater. "She" is satisfied and doesn't see the need for more and we're technically on a budget to buy a home in AZ.

Might have to pull the card here soon though. I'm itching for some sub-20Hz fun.

Here ya go bro!


I originally wasn't planning on adding the next pair till the end of summer, but we'll see how it goes.

Cabs should be here end of next week.
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post #161 of 577
3/28/12 at 9:11am
^^ Sorry but where does the receiver connection go?
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post #162 of 577
3/28/12 at 9:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

^^ Sorry but where does the receiver connection go?

Into the balanced XLR inputs.

If your AVR doesnt have XLR outputs you'll need an RCA to XLR adapter.
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post #163 of 577
3/28/12 at 12:28pm
Went to Eric's place to check these bad boys out...damn they look hawt! And if I remember correctly he plans on getting 2 more? double stacked? You gotta run them hot if you're going to do that! hahaa
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post #164 of 577
3/28/12 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks bro! And yes, 2 more! Matter of fact here are the pics eD just sent me. I should have them sometime next week.



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post #165 of 577
3/28/12 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Into the balanced XLR inputs.

If your AVR doesnt have XLR outputs you'll need an RCA to XLR adapter.

Thanks.
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post #166 of 577
3/28/12 at 4:18pm
Been lurking this thread for awhile. Those are awesome cabs. ED does great work. With their CNC machines, you couldn't build a cab of equal build quality. Well, you COULD, technically, but the work involved and the time involved....easier and better end result to have them build it. The price is absolutely fair. The grills are classy and are the icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.
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post #167 of 577
3/30/12 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Here ya go bro!

I originally wasn't planning on adding the next pair till the end of summer, but we'll see how it goes.

Cabs should be here end of next week.

Thanks man!

Hey, am I seeing the pic right? Is this a 220V(240V) version?

I saw in not's original post about the clone that it can be specified between 110V or 220V, but I don't have 220 ran to my theater. If it's 220 then why did you specifiy that and what benifit do you see?

I ask because in our next home we have built I will work with my contractors to build a dedicated theater space from the ground up. Just wondering if I should plan for some 220V runs for some heavy duty electrical loads vs using the standard 110V (or "120V"--whatever).
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post #168 of 577
3/30/12 at 6:06am
Edogg,

One other thing... Are you using banana plugs, bare speaker wire or did you get fancy and use the speakon connectors?

Guess the speakon wouldn't be to terribly necessary unless you were constantly having to move/relocate/transport (etc...) the equipment, as is the case with professional audio.

Not trying to stray too much off topic here. Just inquisitive to see if everything (including the speakon connections) function as they should and what provides the best connection. 4400watts per channel (up to 7K) is A LOT of power to manage.
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post #169 of 577
3/30/12 at 8:11am
The main benefit of running 220 vs 110 is lower amperage through the power wire and less load on the breaker. Double the voltage, halve the amperage.

Some pro audio gear can run 110-240v. Having 220v available in the HT means you have the option of running that gear at the more efficient higher voltage. I'm no electrician but I've had some experience with 220v gear.

I lived in Europe for awhile and having a water heater and electric stove that plugged into a normal wall outlet with a skinny cord was pretty awesome. We ran a dishwasher, electric kettle and oven off the same breaker. Try that with 110v.

I play bass and I did a few jams while living overseas. A whole FOH amp rack for a 500-person club barely got warm running all night. 220v is the way to go.

That said, I don't know how difficult it would be to source 220v power amps here in the states. I see that this "clone amp" is 220v but I don't know about getting 220v versions from Crown, QSC etc.

Side note: Can someone give me info on that clone amp pictured below? Linkage would be great. Thanks.
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post #170 of 577
3/30/12 at 8:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Edogg,

One other thing... Are you using banana plugs, bare speaker wire or did you get fancy and use the speakon connectors?

Guess the speakon wouldn't be to terribly necessary unless you were constantly having to move/relocate/transport (etc...) the equipment, as is the case with professional audio.

Not trying to stray too much off topic here. Just inquisitive to see if everything (including the speakon connections) function as they should and what provides the best connection. 4400watts per channel (up to 7K) is A LOT of power to manage.


My clone is the 110v version. It's running by itself on its own 20amp line with zero problems. I havent tripped a breaker yet, even while running some high SPL low FR sine sweeps. I do plan on having another 20amp line installed when i order the 2nd amp though.

My cabs have some heavy duty binding posts installed. I use banana plugs on both the amp and subwoofer ends. The speaker wire im using is your standard 10ga from Blue Jeans Cable.
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post #171 of 577
3/30/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

My clone is the 110v version. It's running by itself on its own 20amp line with zero problems. I havent tripped a breaker yet, even while running some high SPL low FR sine sweeps. I do plan on having another 20amp line installed when i order the 2nd amp though.

My cabs have some heavy duty binding posts installed. I use banana plugs on both the amp and subwoofer ends. The speaker wire im using is your standard 10ga from Blue Jeans Cable.

Nice...

Do you think the FP14K is stable at 2 ohm? Has anyone tested it? Technically you could wire the VC's of two subs in parallel (1 ohm per sub) then series them together for a 2 ohm load... You would get full utilization of your amp that way, but at the same time it would definitely be working harder. Obviously it would be a bit easier (and cleaner) if you had a setup like not's with two subs per cabinet vs having to do the series wiring externally to the box. You did say you were stacking them though, correct?

I guess when it's all said and done the clone is under $800, so it would be optimal to drop coin to pick up another one. Then again, that $800 might mean the difference between you affording your extra pair of Ultras early summer vs. late summer!

Seems like everything I've researched the Ultras will tap out before the amp. I'd like to hear from someone that gave the amp a through workout. If not you, then I guess I'll have to pioneer the effort when I get mine... =)

3,500 watts per sub (compared to 4400) should still be more than adequate to push the Ultra based on the published specs.
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post #172 of 577
3/30/12 at 9:31am
Your build is fantastic! Your lines, man, just great! I've never heard ribbons and have always wondered how they would compare to domes and bending waves. Thing is though, if you weren't A-B ing them in the same room it's tough to say one is better than the other . All properly executed lines that I've heard sounded great! It's interesting that you've decided to stick with a center channel. I put in a fairly hefty center for about a day before going back to phantom. Above reference it just couldn't keep up and since the lines image from front center even if you're a bit off center they just creamed the center channel. Anyway, great enclosures for your LMS's too! What a steal! You could park a cement truck on those boxes
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post #173 of 577
3/30/12 at 9:32am
Dont give it a 2 ohm workout then :/ The clones are very unstable below 2.3 ohms and youll have a dead amp on your hands pretty quickly. I think after shipping I paid $825 or so for my 14k, so it is still a HECK of a deal.
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post #174 of 577
3/30/12 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Nice...

Do you think the FP14K is stable at 2 ohm? Has anyone tested it? Technically you could wire the VC's of two subs in parallel (1 ohm per sub) then series them together for a 2 ohm load... You would get full utilization of your amp that way, but at the same time it would definitely be working harder. Obviously it would be a bit easier (and cleaner) if you had a setup like not's with two subs per cabinet vs having to do the series wiring externally to the box. You did say you were stacking them though, correct?

I guess when it's all said and done the clone is under $800, so it would be optimal to drop coin to pick up another one. Then again, that $800 might mean the difference between you affording your extra pair of Ultras early summer vs. late summer!

Seems like everything I've researched the Ultras will tap out before the amp. I'd like to hear from someone that gave the amp a through workout. If not you, then I guess I'll have to pioneer the effort when I get mine... =)

3,500 watts per sub (compared to 4400) should still be more than adequate to push the Ultra based on the published specs.

I think Notnyt said the amps will fully drive the LMS at low frequencies without clipping but they are on the verge of clipping in higher frequencies, but he also said it's uncomfortable to be in the room when doing so. I've also seen on his YouTube page that the FP specs out extremely close to (maybe the same as) the real McCoy.
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post #175 of 577
3/30/12 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Dont give it a 2 ohm workout then :/ The clones are very unstable below 2.3 ohms and youll have a dead amp on your hands pretty quickly.

Ok, thanks for weighing in beast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I think after shipping I paid $825 or so for my 14k, so it is still a HECK of a deal.

Agreed! I'm totally fine with it not being 2 ohm stable. That and lack of network capability (firmware updates, etc...) are small compromises to make for a product with comparable power output of the original at roughly 14% of the MSRP!
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post #176 of 577
3/30/12 at 10:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

Your build is fantastic! Your lines, man, just great! I've never heard ribbons and have always wondered how they would compare to domes and bending waves. Thing is though, if you weren't A-B ing them in the same room it's tough to say one is better than the other . All properly executed lines that I've heard sounded great! It's interesting that you've decided to stick with a center channel. I put in a fairly hefty center for about a day before going back to phantom. Above reference it just couldn't keep up and since the lines image from front center even if you're a bit off center they just creamed the center channel. Anyway, great enclosures for your LMS's too! What a steal! You could park a cement truck on those boxes

Thanks man! Funny you mention the center channel as i actually just sold it a few days ago. Im gonna try the phantom center thing for a while and see how things go. Though I will say that the GR N3s i was running was ABSOLUTELY fantastic!!!
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post #177 of 577
3/30/12 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Ok, thanks for weighing in beast.



Agreed! I'm totally fine with it not being 2 ohm stable. That and lack of network capability (firmware updates, etc...) are small compromises to make for a product with comparable power output of the original at roughly 14% of the MSRP!

Like Beast said, 2ohms is a no no.
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post #178 of 577
3/30/12 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Thanks man! Funny you mention the center channel as i actually just sold it a few days ago. Im gonna try the phantom center thing for a while and see how things go. Though I will say that the GR N3s i was running was ABSOLUTELY fantastic!!!

I'm sure it sounded great, but you've got at least 8X the driver in those lines, and they do such a nice job of imagining from the center. I think you'll like it. Are your lines power tapered?
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post #179 of 577
3/30/12 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

Are your lines power tapered?

Not that i know off??
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post #180 of 577
4/1/12 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

I'm sure it sounded great, but you've got at least 8X the driver in those lines, and they do such a nice job of imagining from the center. I think you'll like it. Are your lines power tapered?

Thread killer! lol...
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