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Edogg's QUAD LMS AIY (Assemble It Yourself) Build - Page 17

post #481 of 603
Yep, I decided to forego the LMS's cause of the stock issue. Just so I can get more info, I called TC Sounds, left a voicemail message, e-mailed them (through 2 of their addresses) and got nothing confused.gif
post #482 of 603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Check out my dream design.
I showed my wife this yesterday and she was not amused...
LMSUltraWall.jpg
One can dream...
At this rate it would take 4 years just to get the subs from Parts Express... I'm only getting two in the near term, but MAN does it suck having approval to buy only for the only supplier to be out of stock for a another full month... Ridiculous...

Now how can you go wrong with 32 LMS's??? Better call the electrician bro! biggrin.gif
post #483 of 603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopaddiction View Post

Yep, I decided to forego the LMS's cause of the stock issue. Just so I can get more info, I called TC Sounds, left a voicemail message, e-mailed them (through 2 of their addresses) and got nothing confused.gif

The stock situation definitely sucks man. frown.gif What driver are you going to use instead??
post #484 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

The stock situation definitely sucks man. frown.gif What driver are you going to use instead??

I ended up getting a SubMersive HP, and will add another one in a year or so (this is for the parents btw.) I'm very happy with the results, even in an extremely large and open living room.

I checked off on the LMS sub due to a variety of reasons, the main one being the stock issue. I considered a Funky Waves 18.0 but the price for a single one shipped to America is a little high. I also shot Jeff from JTR an e-mail and a voicemail for a Captivator S2 but didn't receive a response until a week after. He seems to be a really busy guy...and by that time I had already ordered a SubM.

Anyways, i'm planning on doing what you did with 2 LMS's and a clone amp for my own personal use, sometime in the near future hopefully.
post #485 of 603
Thread Starter 
Very nice sub! I finally got the chance to audition one about a month ago and it was great! I was very impressed with it despite the lack of setup on it. It was basically thrown in a corner and fired it, and it still performed very nicely. I'm sure your parents will be very happy with it (them).

Good luck with your future LMS build. smile.gif
post #486 of 603
Check out the new home for my Ultra's
IMG_2610.jpg

Home for the Clone...
IMG_2612.jpg

Hopefully only a few short weeks left before I'm up an running...
post #487 of 603
Very nice. smile.gif
post #488 of 603
Thread Starter 
Nice!!! I'm REALLY diggin the super wide screen! cool.gif
post #489 of 603
Thread Starter 
So fast forward about 5 months and I finally got the opportunity to do some measuring. Using an Omnimic (v2) and a little tweaking with the SMS-1 I came up with this response. Two questions for you guys.

1. Im not too familiar with a DCX and what it can do vs. the SMS when it comes to boosting the low end. Do you guys think making a swap to a DCX would help with the under 10hz stuff??

2. How accurate are these OM when it comes to the ULF's?? Reason I ask is that I've talked to several members now and we all seem to have a VERY similar roll-off point, just seems a little strange.

post #490 of 603
Looking great edogg! I was told the omnimic is accurate to 7hz or so.

Now the important question - how does it sound? biggrin.gif
post #491 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

So fast forward about 5 months and I finally got the opportunity to do some measuring. Using an Omnimic (v2) and a little tweaking with the SMS-1 I came up with this response. Two questions for you guys.
1. Im not too familiar with a DCX and what it can do vs. the SMS when it comes to boosting the low end. Do you guys think making a swap to a DCX would help with the under 10hz stuff??
2. How accurate are these OM when it comes to the ULF's?? Reason I ask is that I've talked to several members now and we all seem to have a VERY similar roll-off point, just seems a little strange.

the DCX has a HPF of 20hz built in. You can run a few filters to lower it to about 15hz but thats about it. You'll need a minidsp or similar to get into the very low single digits.
post #492 of 603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Looking great edogg! I was told the omnimic is accurate to 7hz or so.
Now the important question - how does it sound? biggrin.gif
Thanks mang! It sounds GREAT!! biggrin.gif

But you see thats the strange part. When I play certain scenes that I know contain some under 10hz stuff you can most definitely feel it. I mean you feel the pressure on your body, the waves of bass are there, my PJ and sceen shake like crazy! Point is it seems like the OM might be off compared to what im hearing/feeling. Unless im doing the measuring wrong. lol
post #493 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

the DCX has a HPF of 20hz built in. You can run a few filters to lower it to about 15hz but thats about it. You'll need a minidsp or similar to get into the very low single digits.

No sir, not built in. Well, you can add one if you want, but here is it's measured response out of the box:



That is about -3.6dB at 4 hz?

Here is my actual response using OM as well, strangely at the same spot, I have about the same rolloff and have had the same measured rolloff there with other systems as well.



FWIW I have taken the DCX out of the chain and it still remains
post #494 of 603
I'm pretty sure it's built in at 20hz unless they have some other firmware to correct it. It was a huge discussion a while ago when people started buying them.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1225896/dcx-2496-high-pass-filter-setup
post #495 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I'm pretty sure it's built in at 20hz unless they have some other firmware to correct it. It was a huge discussion a while ago when people started buying them.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1225896/dcx-2496-high-pass-filter-setup

AH I see where you are confused now. The DCX doesnt have a HP built in, but what they were trying to do was set a high pass BELOW 20hz. The DCX only allows you to create filters down to 20hz, not below. So for example if you wanted to boost 3db at 10hz, you couldn't do it. or create a 12db HP at 7hz, you couldnt do it. There are workarounds, to create these things, such as, I boost 6 dB's at 20 hz, and then at 25hz I cut it back 6 dB's so I I effectively get a little boost from 20hz down and it doesnt adversely affect the above 20hz response.
post #496 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

AH I see where you are confused now. The DCX doesnt have a HP built in, but what they were trying to do was set a high pass BELOW 20hz. The DCX only allows you to create filters down to 20hz, not below. So for example if you wanted to boost 3db at 10hz, you couldn't do it. or create a 12db HP at 7hz, you couldnt do it. There are workarounds, to create these things, such as, I boost 6 dB's at 20 hz, and then at 25hz I cut it back 6 dB's so I I effectively get a little boost from 20hz down and it doesnt adversely affect the above 20hz response.

Sorry, the bottom is 20hz for any type of EQ's unless you mess with filters, though it pretty much is built in as thats as low as the HPF will go without manipulation. biggrin.gif thats the only problem with the DCX. If Eric wants to mess with 10hz stuff, the DCX is not for him.
post #497 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Sorry, the bottom is 20hz for any type of EQ's unless you mess with filters, though it pretty much is built in as thats as low as the HPF will go without manipulation. biggrin.gif thats the only problem with the DCX. If Eric wants to mess with 10hz stuff, the DCX is not for him.

You are correct if you are wanting to set a HPF! Edogg doesnt need to, nor do I. Therefore I am not running one, and please refer back to post 493 to see the natural rolloff of the DCX, you can clearly see there is no rolloff until past 10hz and even at 5hz, it is still VERY minimal. That is the measured rolloff of the DCX, directly from our guy Josh Ricci
post #498 of 603
I agree that the DCX is handcuffed for EQing below 20hz, or asking it to set a HPF any lower than 20hz, and this is where you would benefit with the Mini, but for this thread, the question is more why his OM measurements, as well as mine and several others show the drastic rolloff right above 10hz, while others, like Gorilla get good measurements down to about 7hz or so.
post #499 of 603
Well Eric asked if the dcx would give better results for boosting the under the 10hz stuff over his SMS and it won't, that was really my only point. Since you can't set anything lower than 20hz, this is not what he's looking for. Minidsp would be where I'd go. I have one on it's way as we speak. I'm wondering what it can do with the under 20hz stuff myself.
post #500 of 603
The reason you often see a drop off below 10hz is probably because of the stack up of electronics roll off from all the equipment in the chain. The receiver, the EQ unit, the amp, etc...take that DCX measurement. That's actually a fairly decent extension only 3DB down at about 4.5Hz. Now consider if the receiver also has the same roll off...Now you are down 6dB. Lets assume the amp also rolls off the same so add another 3dB to that and we are now down 9DB at 4.5Hz. It adds up quick and acts like a high pass filter for <10Hz. It takes some effort to get a signal chain that is not down 10dB at 5Hz. My own drops off a cliff below 6 or 7 Hz which doesn't bother me enough to try and do anything about it. Anyway I suspect that is what you see in the omnimic graphs.
post #501 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

The reason you often see a drop off below 10hz is probably because of the stack up of electronics roll off from all the equipment in the chain. The receiver, the EQ unit, the amp, etc...take that DCX measurement. That's actually a fairly decent extension only 3DB down at about 4.5Hz. Now consider if the receiver also has the same roll off...Now you are down 6dB. Lets assume the amp also rolls off the same so add another 3dB to that and we are now down 9DB at 4.5Hz. It adds up quick and acts like a high pass filter for <10Hz. It takes some effort to get a signal chain that is not down 10dB at 5Hz. My own drops off a cliff below 6 or 7 Hz which doesn't bother me enough to try and do anything about it. Anyway I suspect that is what you see in the omnimic graphs.

Here is a good visual for that: courtesy of bosso



9db's down at 4.5hz is ok, but seeing Eric and my graphs, it still seems strange that others with almost identical signal chains and just as capable systems can measure flatter, lower. Just sayin. I tried the exact same signal chain as Not and stil had the same rolloff. The denon 4311, LG clone, and nothing else, very little rolloff in that chain, and even with the DCX, you arent down as far as our graphs show. I dont want to chase sub 7hz, and frankly don't care or are even "OK" with the rolloff falling hard at that point, but I would really like to get flat to that point before it falls off hard like I am seeing.
post #502 of 603
Eric, if you want to test a dcx, let me know. I got on laying around collecting dust. Was going to use with my ati1506 + seos + 2226h. But I'm going can that project now.
post #503 of 603

I've had very good results with Omnimic and eD's EQ.2. If you can find one, the EQ.2 let's you tweak down to 10hz.

 

The omnimic is accurate down to 5hz.

 

post #504 of 603
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info fellas!! That's one thing I overlooked, the roll-off of each component. In my case it goes Oppo-93 > 4311ci > SMS-1 > Clone, which I think I've seen others use similar signal chains and being flat into single digits. Another interesting thing is the owner of the OM has a dual submersive setup and his roll-off is pretty much at the same point. Coincidence?? Hhmmmmm.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

Eric, if you want to test a dcx, let me know. I got on laying around collecting dust. Was going to use with my ati1506 + seos + 2226h. But I'm going can that project now.

What's up bro? How things going on the other side of Fontucky??biggrin.gif I'd love to give it a go and see how it does vs. the SMS if you dont mind. If things don't improve much I think a MiniDSP might be the next step.
post #505 of 603
My bad for not hollering back at you last night! Got your text, but was doing a lil entertaining for an out of town friend.

So, we've seen the raw response of the DCX...Anyone have access to the same for the SMS-1? Or is it burried somewhere deep in the massive miniDSP thread?

miniDSP is in my future as well, but I really do love the remote functionality of the SMS-1, so I'd perfer to keep it in the chain if at all possible.

Dizzel, if you get ahold of that DCX and make the time, it would be nice to see what kind of response you are getting with DCX + SMS-1 and DCX standalone. If anything, just to gauge how much the SMS-1 is CB'ing the infrasonics.
post #506 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

So fast forward about 5 months and I finally got the opportunity to do some measuring. Using an Omnimic (v2) and a little tweaking with the SMS-1 I came up with this response. Two questions for you guys.
1. Im not too familiar with a DCX and what it can do vs. the SMS when it comes to boosting the low end. Do you guys think making a swap to a DCX would help with the under 10hz stuff??
2. How accurate are these OM when it comes to the ULF's?? Reason I ask is that I've talked to several members now and we all seem to have a VERY similar roll-off point, just seems a little strange.

Eric,

I could hear you running those sweeps from OK. Killer set up and I can thank you for my now quad UXL set up. biggrin.gif
post #507 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

My bad for not hollering back at you last night! Got your text, but was doing a lil entertaining for an out of town friend.
So, we've seen the raw response of the DCX...Anyone have access to the same for the SMS-1? Or is it burried somewhere deep in the massive miniDSP thread?
miniDSP is in my future as well, but I really do love the remote functionality of the SMS-1, so I'd perfer to keep it in the chain if at all possible.
Dizzel, if you get ahold of that DCX and make the time, it would be nice to see what kind of response you are getting with DCX + SMS-1 and DCX standalone. If anything, just to gauge how much the SMS-1 is CB'ing the infrasonics.

If I have time, I will perhaps run a loop through of the sms-1 before I put it up for auction, then we can really see what it's rolloff is as well.

I dont know how easy it would be to run a loop-through from the start of my chain in the player through the denon, dcx, and then finally the amp just to see what kinda rolloff I have. might be worth it to give it a try tho.
post #508 of 603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Thanks for the info fellas!! That's one thing I overlooked, the roll-off of each component. In my case it goes Oppo-93 > 4311ci > SMS-1 > Clone, which I think I've seen others use similar signal chains and being flat into single digits. Another interesting thing is the owner of the OM has a dual submersive setup and his roll-off is pretty much at the same point. Coincidence?? Hhmmmmm.........
What's up bro? How things going on the other side of Fontucky??biggrin.gif I'd love to give it a go and see how it does vs. the SMS if you dont mind. If things don't improve much I think a MiniDSP might be the next step.

No worries man. Just don't let it happen again. biggrin.gif

So according to this the SMS roll-off isn't all that bad right?

http://velodyne.com/media/support/SMS%202point1point3%20Release%20Notes.pdf
post #509 of 603
Doesnt seem too bad, -3dB's at 8hz is a little high, but still not aweful
post #510 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

So fast forward about 5 months and I finally got the opportunity to do some measuring. Using an Omnimic (v2) and a little tweaking with the SMS-1 I came up with this response. Two questions for you guys.
1. Im not too familiar with a DCX and what it can do vs. the SMS when it comes to boosting the low end. Do you guys think making a swap to a DCX would help with the under 10hz stuff??
2. How accurate are these OM when it comes to the ULF's?? Reason I ask is that I've talked to several members now and we all seem to have a VERY similar roll-off point, just seems a little strange.

Eric, aren't you using a HPF on your LMS-U system? I thought I remember having a conversation about this back when you were building them. I tried to convince you not to use one but you were worried about damaging your drivers. That would certainly account for being 10dB down by 10hz with a system like yours.
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