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Anyone still mess with VCRs?

post #1 of 59
2/2/12 at 4:13pm
Thread Starter 
There is no section for VCRs (for obvious reason) but are there still people using it? The reason why I asked is because I picked up a pair of Panasonic VCRs and a controller that controls both units from the local university. I barely paid anything for it and the model of the VCR is AG-5710. I googled the model and found out that they're marketed towards studios and broadcast systems and are quite expensive back in the day (I think they are made in the late 80s). It all works except the display is a bit dim on the two VCRs, I've never seen such a clean video signal from a VHS tape.

Does anyone here knows a thing or two about these VCRs?
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post #2 of 59
2/2/12 at 8:49pm
I've been doing videography since the 1980s and have used many of the AG series VCRs. They were Panasonics industrial/professional VCRs and generally have a better picture and are more robust than consumer models. The big AG-7500-7750 series editing decks are really nice.
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post #3 of 59
2/2/12 at 9:37pm
The DVD recorder section is used for VCR threads.

I've been working in broadcast and production since the early eighties although at work I don't have much VHS experience as I'm used to working with analog Betacam, digital Betacam and now some of the tapeless formats.

As a hobbyist I've been playing with VHS and S-VHS since the eighties. If you plan on selling your units to consumers - one thing to watch out for is many of the professional VHS units will only playback consumer tapes recorded in the SP speed, which of course is the superior speed. Another thing is that some of the cheap consumer VHS recorders recorded in SP/EP but used only two narrow heads for both speeds - those tapes recorded in SP may play very noisy (video distortion) on the SP only wide head professional VHS decks. Older consumer SP only decks used wide heads and those tapes should play OK. Most consumer 4-head recorded tapes should play really nice because most 4-head consumer VHS decks use wide SP heads and tapes recorded on those decks should produce - as you said, a very clean signal on the professional decks.

Maybe Lonely Suffer will know if your pro decks are SP speed only decks - which is most likely.

Congratulations on your low cost purchase sounds like a great deal.
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post #4 of 59
2/2/12 at 10:05pm
According to this link
http://reviews.cnet.com/vcrs/panason...7-6898535.html
The AG-5710 is a 4-head SP/EP deck meaning all consumer tapes should play good on this deck.
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post #5 of 59
2/3/12 at 3:08pm
One of the biggest uses for VCRs is for people wanting to play their VHS tapes and record them to DVD(or maybe a HDD). Probably not too many people actually recording on VHS anymore, I think they stopped production of VHS tapes a few years back but of course their is still old stock.
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post #6 of 59
2/3/12 at 6:28pm
Thread Starter 
MODs please move this thread into the DVD Recorder section if that's the appropriate spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

According to this link
http://reviews.cnet.com/vcrs/panason...7-6898535.html
The AG-5710 is a 4-head SP/EP deck meaning all consumer tapes should play good on this deck.


Yep the dude was recording and playing in EP mode when he was demoing it. I felt like a video tape jockey (do they exist?) when I was controlling both VCRs with one controller, it makes a cool noise when you turn it on too. Here's a pic of them...



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post #7 of 59
2/4/12 at 6:18pm
I have a normal one (4 Head) since 1992..still working perfectly in another room with a crt !



I use High quality tapes and the pq is awesome

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post #8 of 59
2/5/12 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 
So looks like there are different type/quality of recordable tape? VCRs are part of my childhood so now I feel like I should start some kind of VCR/VHS collection.

The next thing I wanna buy is that mini vhs to vhs adapter, I think my friend has one...
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post #9 of 59
2/5/12 at 3:01pm
weister42 and ertoil

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

IIRC, 800x600 is the recommended limit for a picture...

EDIT: Those of us with 1024x768 screens cannot read rxheaven's, or the folks that have to QUOTE *ENTIRE* posts, post without scrolling back-and-forth horizontally for EACH line.

gastrof, that was EXTREMELY considerate of you to reduce it from 1024x576 to 640x360! Thanks!
*IF* the others would please update their LINKs, that would be terrific.

You could also consider ATTACHing LINKs to the photos to the post, like Digado does , and vBulletin will automatically create Thumbnails
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by weister42 View Post

    ...Here's a pic of them...

    .
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by ertoil View Post

    I have a normal one (4 Head) since 1992..still working perfectly in another room with a crt !
    PIC #1
    PIC #2

    I use High quality tapes and the pq is awesome
    PIC #3
    PIC #4

Thanks in advance for your consideration and cooperation!
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post #10 of 59
2/5/12 at 3:44pm
That explains it I was wondering why I had to scroll left and right in this thread and now I know why. It looks like the photo is 1600x1200 (which is actually what I used years ago when my eyes were better) then for a while I used 1280x1024 but now I'm down to 1360x768, damn eyes
Oh and weister42, tape came in many different grades but I believe only one formulation. Unlike audio tape which came in IV different types.
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post #11 of 59
2/6/12 at 1:18am
I still have 3 DVHS decks that will record and playback analog VHS, SVHS and digital both in SD and up to 1080i HD. The majority of use comes from playing back tapes to dub to DVD. I also use them to playback my 10 or so DTheater tapes and HD recordings I made before DVRs were available.
LL
LL
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post #12 of 59
2/6/12 at 2:12am
weister42, I own four Panasonic AG-5710 vcrs myself and have posted about them several times in threads devoted to various VCR questions. I can tell you that the obscure AG5710 was the little-known "twin sister" of the popular AG1980: any question you might have regarding the AG-5710 will find answers if you google the AG1980 instead.

They are exactly the same VCR for all practical consumer purposes today. Fifteen years ago when they were still current, the AG5710 was a specialized "pro" version sold directly to TV stations and post-production studios at roughly $2299, double the already-exorbitant price of the semi-pro AG1980. For the huge price premium, the 5710 loses features that would have been vital for home use and gains features that were absolutely worthless for home use:

The AG5710 lacks the "consumer" analog broadcast tuner of the AG1980: the AG5710 records from line input only. The AG5710 also lacks the secondary set of convenience line inputs found on the AG1980 front panel.

The AG5710 has no IR receiver for standard Panasonic consumer remote controllers. The AG1980 does, and can be operated with any random Panasonic VCR remote or universal remote. The AG5710 is not compatible with the standard (i.e., affordable to consumers) wired edit controller AGA95 that was used with the AG1960, AG1970 and AG1980.

The AG5710 was meant to be installed in professional-format video edit bays controlled by specialized computer editing software via the old PC multi-pin serial port interface. If used as a standalone VCR off-site or in the home, the only remote control option was the wired serial-interface edit controller seen in your picture: you were very lucky to get that in your package deal. This controller AG-A571 looks and works like the more common AG-A95 but does not fit the more popular AG1980 vcr.

Last but not least, and the reason the AG5710 cost a bloody fortune back in the day: it includes a special separate built-in control-track signal generator that could sync the VCR with the overall systems in pro edit suites. By flipping a switch, you replace the normal linear audio track at the edge of the tape with this additional control track, making your VHS and SVHS compatible for interformat editing with 1", BetaCam and other pro video gear. The AG5710 was the only VCR under $4000 to have this feature aside from the JVC SR-S365U (which was much flimsier, based on an old consumer VCR chassis with no TBC/DNR, and marketed primarily to security firms for surveillance systems recording).
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post #13 of 59
2/6/12 at 3:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

weister42 and ertoil

Thanks in advance for your consideration and cooperation!

Yep I will do that next time!



Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

weister42, I own four Panasonic AG-5710 vcrs myself and have posted about them several times in threads devoted to various VCR questions. I can tell you that the obscure AG5710 was the little-known "twin sister" of the popular AG1980: any question you might have regarding the AG-5710 will find answers if you google the AG1980 instead.

They are exactly the same VCR for all practical consumer purposes today. Fifteen years ago when they were still current, the AG5710 was a specialized "pro" version sold directly to TV stations and post-production studios at roughly $2299, double the already-exorbitant price of the semi-pro AG1980. For the huge price premium, the 5710 loses features that would have been vital for home use and gains features that were absolutely worthless for home use:

The AG5710 lacks the "consumer" analog broadcast tuner of the AG1980: the AG5710 records from line input only. The AG5710 also lacks the secondary set of convenience line inputs found on the AG1980 front panel.

The AG5710 has no IR receiver for standard Panasonic consumer remote controllers. The AG1980 does, and can be operated with any random Panasonic VCR remote or universal remote. The AG5710 is not compatible with the standard (i.e., affordable to consumers) wired edit controller AGA95 that was used with the AG1960, AG1970 and AG1980.

The AG5710 was meant to be installed in professional-format video edit bays controlled by specialized computer editing software via the old PC multi-pin serial port interface. If used as a standalone VCR off-site or in the home, the only remote control option was the wired serial-interface edit controller seen in your picture: you were very lucky to get that in your package deal. This controller AG-A571 looks and works like the more common AG-A95 but does not fit the more popular AG1980 vcr.

Last but not least, and the reason the AG5710 cost a bloody fortune back in the day: it includes a special separate built-in control-track signal generator that could sync the VCR with the overall systems in pro edit suites. By flipping a switch, you replace the normal linear audio track at the edge of the tape with this additional control track, making your VHS and SVHS compatible for interformat editing with 1", BetaCam and other pro video gear. The AG5710 was the only VCR under $4000 to have this feature aside from the JVC SR-S365U (which was much flimsier, based on an old consumer VCR chassis with no TBC/DNR, and marketed primarily to security firms for surveillance systems recording).



Thank you for the info! So the tapes recorded on this machine will work in a batamax machine if I select that option? Cause that's pretty cool. Also, do you happen to know the value of these things just in case if I want to sell them?
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post #14 of 59
2/6/12 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by weister42 View Post

So the tapes recorded on this machine will work in a batamax machine if I select that option?

He actually said BetaCam, not Betamax. And I think he meant circumstances where you hook a Betacam camcorder into the machine. Betamax and VHS tapes had different cassette housings, so you couldn't pop the other format into either VCR.


Quote:


VCRs are part of my childhood so now I feel like I should start some kind of VCR/VHS collection.

I still use mine from time to time. The VHS tapes I have were never released on DVD/BD (well, one recently was, but I haven't gotten around to buying it yet.) I guess I could dub them over to DVD, but meh.
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post #15 of 59
2/6/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

.... Betamax and VHS tapes had different cassette housings, so you couldn't pop the other format into either VCR.....

Not only different housing but different way of recording things. About the only thing the same between the two is they are both 1/2" wide.
They also use a different method to stop the tape after a rewind or FF. Beta used a metal leader while VHS used a clear leader and light. When the clear leader got between the light and photocell it shut down the motors. When tape were between the two it blocked the light and allowed the motors to work.
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post #16 of 59
2/6/12 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by weister42 View Post

So the tapes recorded on this machine will work in a betamax machine if I select that option? Cause that's pretty cool.

Sorry if I was unclear: no, as jjeff and Tulpa mentioned, Beta and VHS are completely different recording systems and no VCR of one format can play the other. BetaCam was the professional TV version of BetaMax: it used the same cassette but the tape inside was a different much more expensive formula allowing much higher quality recording from video cameras.

I mentioned BetaCam in relation to the Panasonic AG5710 to try and explain its special time code feature. Consumer formats like VHS and BetaMax typically have a consumer-grade control track embedded on the edge of the tape to keep the frames synchronized with the simple tape counters they use. Professional TV and studio VCRs like BetaCam, 1", M2 and so on used a more rugged and versatile time code track, which had a whole universe of supporting hardware that depended on it. Integrating consumer VHS and SVHS into such production suites was difficult, because they could not synchronize with the "pro" time code system. The Panasonic AG5710 and JVC SR-S365 were developed to fill this very specific need, by adding an extra recording head and circuitry to embed pro time code and sync tapes with the rest of a pro suite.

Quote:


Also, do you happen to know the value of these things just in case if I want to sell them?

The special time code feature of the AG5710 is near-worthless today, long after all pro suites have converted to digital video, so it does not add any extra value to it over a comparable AG1980. Check both decks and the edit controller remote to be sure they work properly. If in good working order, each AG5710 is worth $99-199 on eBay depending on demand the particular week you offer them for sale. The AG-A571 remote is worth about $49. They would be easier to sell as separate items instead of a package.
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post #17 of 59
2/13/12 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Nice! I think I'm just going to keep it and let it sit in my future av rack.


It is interesting to hear about the top of yesterday's equipment, I know I definitely want a laserdisc player in the future so I can remember how my palm is almost not big enough to hold the laserdisc with one hand without touching the surface.
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post #18 of 59
2/13/12 at 1:34pm
LaserDisc is a whole other kettle of fish: with these, you need to figure out if you seriously want to regularly use a player with a variety of discs, or you just want to have one in your personal "museum of video tech past" for old times' sake. Each studio mfr'd the discs differently from the others, and hardly any of the players were universal: you'd always end up not being able to reliably play your favorite discs on the player you sank your money into. Curiously they also followed the 2005 DVD recorder paradigm: the higher the quality of the LaserDisc player, the more likely it was to be fussy and fragile.

Most people swear by the Pioneers, and they were the LaserDisc standard for most of the format's run, but they can be picayune about playing particular discs. The handful of consumer-line Sonys would play anything, they were very tolerant, but had ongoing bugs with the tray mechanism failing quickly. Panasonic made some nice sturdy LD players, but they were controversial for reasons I don't quite remember (sporadic PQ quibbles or compatibility issues). Mitsubishi had some decent LD players, and almost any that were rebranded by audio companies were very good (Denon, Yamaha, Marantz).

The most robust player ever made was the one I had for about 20 years: the Sony LDP-2000. Loads of these "industrial-grade" players were churned out in the mid-80s, used mostly as the core of arcade video games and automated kiosks. They weigh a ton, and have more computer connections on the back panel than a Star Trek console. Total tanks: nothing ever breaks, they were designed to run 24/7 non-stop for months on end. They play virtually any laserdisc, no matter how off-spec the pressing. Unfortunately for the "videophile" they have three killer drawbacks. They were produced before the advent of digital audio tracks, so will only play the analog. The PQ is not top rank: no NR, so all but the latest discs will look pretty grainy. And the wireless remote is unobtainium: you have to run it by the front panel buttons (or a PC with old serial port). The LDP-2000 turns up regularly for under $30, many are offered for free if you'll just pick it up (they measure 20" x 20" x 10" and weigh on the order of 32lbs). Really fun to own if you have the shelf space (and your shelves can support the weight).
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post #19 of 59
2/13/12 at 3:59pm
I always preferred Panasonic Units because of their ability to record in LP speed which was perfect for sports
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post #20 of 59
2/13/12 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by weister42 View Post

Nice! I think I'm just going to keep it and let it sit in my future av rack.

It is interesting to hear about the top of yesterday's equipment, I know I definitely want a laserdisc player in the future so I can remember how my palm is almost not big enough to hold the laserdisc with one hand without touching the surface.

I got my first LaserDisc player back on 1988. It was a Yamaha CDV1100. It was the lower end Yamaha LD player, no bells and whistles but it played every disc I ever thrown at it, including any 12 inch or smaller CLV or CAV disc in NTSC format. It played every CD and CD-R I thrown at it. It played CDV video discs as well.

Although they were still very expensive in the late eighties I got the player for four reasons that in my mind justified the high cost.

1) I could save my VCR from playing abused rental tapes and instead rent LDs without worrying about clogging VCR heads and tape path.

2) The quality of rental movie playback on LD was much higher then VHS/Beta rentals.

3) I could dub LDs to my SuperBeta and later SVHS and still retain higher quality dubs then original VHS/Beta tapes. (Personal copies only of course)

4) I needed a good CD player.

My Yamaha CDV1100 had the original 2 channel analog audio with CX noise reduction for the discs that were encoded with CX. It also had uncompressed 2 channel PCM audio for newer discs that were recoded with digital sound. I tell you; even the analog audio of laser disc was very high quality.

My Yamaha CDV1100 lasted from 1988 to about 2006 playing each and every disc I thrown at it. My deck was a store demo with lots of hours of usage prior to my purchase. Back in 2006 when it started acting finicky I dubbed the few LD concerts I owned to SVHS-ET. (I bought a few concerts on LD on sale when LDs were starting to be replaced by DVDs)

A while back I found a free working Magnavox WRV-100 LaserDisc player that someone put in the recycling bin near my complex. Works fine, I borroweed a couple LDs to confirm. My only reason for keeping it is if I find any rare concerts not released on DVD dumped at eBay for real cheap.

If you need any specific info on a particular LD player that none of here own(ed), I'd suggest posting your Q at the DVD player forum as many folks still using LD on a regular basis post over there.
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post #21 of 59
2/13/12 at 7:08pm
My Philips LD player, purchased in 1989, still works fine. But, I did have to have the belt that opens the tray replaced a couple of years ago. It has played everything, except discs with laser rot.
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post #22 of 59
2/13/12 at 7:29pm
I remember the days when video stores would demo big screen tv's with star wars on vhs on rear projection tv's. No, it did not look good. It looked like really bad vhs. Considerably worse than broadcast tv.

I never did understand the vhs craze at all. PQ was horrendous.

If there is content that you absolutely must have that you can't find elsewhere, it's understandable, though.
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post #23 of 59
2/13/12 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio/videoman View Post

I never did understand the vhs craze at all. PQ was horrendous.

Most people back then had 19" CRTs or smaller. VHS wasn't stellar, but it worked for most. Plus, paying $40 for a laserdisc catalog title was a bit rich for most. Fewer places rented LD, too. No one in my hometown ever had them, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio/videoman View Post

If there is content that you absolutely must have that you can't find elsewhere, it's understandable, though.

Yeah, that's the main reason I hung onto my VCR. I have a couple of cult movies that never got a DVD release. Even if I were to dub them to DVD, it'll still be VHS quality.

I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to get an old format unless it had content I couldn't get anywhere else. Main reason why I don't have LD or Beta; haven't come across anything exclusive to them to bother.
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post #24 of 59
2/13/12 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio/videoman View Post

I remember the days when video stores would demo big screen tv's with star wars on vhs on rear projection tv's. No, it did not look good. It looked like really bad vhs. Considerably worse than broadcast tv.

I never did understand the vhs craze at all. PQ was horrendous.

If there is content that you absolutely must have that you can't find elsewhere, it's understandable, though.

Back around 86-87, my High School English/drama teacher owned the best stereo store in town. "Einstein's audio/video."

I remember walking in for the first time. "Top Gun" laserdisc on a pioneer rptv and dolby surround sound. (This was before any flavor of pro logic, so there were 2 front stereo speakers and 2 rear limited frequency mono speakers with no "steering", purely passive.) At the time, it was beyond cool. First person I knew with a CD player in his car.

After a school play, he had us to his home for a cast party. He had a similar system at home, and must have had 500+ LD's. We watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit after, a few of us real A/V geeks hung around, and we watched Blade Runner, I was hooked!
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post #25 of 59
2/14/12 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

LaserDisc is a whole other kettle of fish: with these, you need to figure out if you seriously want to regularly use a player with a variety of discs, or you just want to have one in your personal "museum of video tech past" for old times' sake.

I mentioned this a couple of years ago. My big problem with my LaserDisks is/was () that I was a purist videophile. That means that I purchased most of my LD titles in the letterboxed format. During my dubbing project (VHS to DVD) I had a sub-project of transferring my LD titles to DVD as well. The issue was, and turned out to be, that in order to preserve the aspect ratio, I was given two options, neither of which was good, or even acceptable. The first was to "postage stamp" the image. The video stream was recorded letterboxed on the laser disk, so I had to watch it in the 3:4 format that it was made for, to preserve the aspect ratio, thus pillarboxing it along with the original letterboxing. Ugh! The second option was to expand the image, and that resulted in a really poor video quality, worse than VHS in some ways. Again Ugh. I ended up purchasing the DVDs of most of my laserDisk titles for that reason. (yet again) $Ugh$.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio/videoman View Post

...I never did understand the vhs craze at all. PQ was horrendous.

If there is content that you absolutely must have that you can't find elsewhere, it's understandable, though.

Well, where I came from, VHS was the only viable option for recording. If your choices are VHS or nothing, you simply had to choose VHS. The rental stores had maybe 50 Beta titles to rent, but 1000 VHS titles.

It wasn't so much a craze, as an only resort. If you wanted to record, and we all did, then that was what you used. After you had even a small library of titles, recorded or purchased, the inertia against changing formats for what was perceived as a really small quality increase, was too great. Even when I would leave my small town and go to a really big electronics store in downtown Minneapolis, they had four or five Beta units, and literally a wall of VHS units from a dozen manufacturers. The forces for VHS were overwhelming, despite the inferior quality of the format. VHS eventually DID bury Beta.
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post #26 of 59
2/14/12 at 5:00pm
Most laser disc arcade games from 1983-1984 used the Pioneer LD-V1000 (the most common, used in Dragon's Lair), and the Pioneer LD-1100. A few games used a Philips player. Most laser disc arcade machines from the early 90s (such as mad Dog McCree) used the Sony LDP1450. For more information about the fascinating world of arcade laser disc games, check out www.d-l-p.com . This website is called Dragon's Lair Project. I am on the message board there also.
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post #27 of 59
3/1/12 at 5:47am
I use VCR's a lot, I have my Hitachi Nicam deck hooked up to my freeview box, I got quite a collection of units stacking up here now lol I got a Panasonic S-VHS deck I bought back in 1996 which is fantastic as it's what I use to transfer my important tapes to my computer, I got a normal nicam Panasonic unit, a couple of Sony nicam units and about 3 Hitachi nicam sets but the Hitachi units are the ones I prefer to use because they are so quick, a tape is loaded and recording in a matter of seconds and with super rew and FF it's fine for me not to mention picture quality on Hitachi is really good.

I have very little patients with stuff that's to slow eg I own a sony DVD recorder I bought back in 2003 but it just gets on my tits because it's so slow and it's a high end one too.

So at the moment I still use VCR and intend to keep using it for a long a poss, I like tapes always have done because it's great going back over an archive of tapes you've recorded from yesteryear and think wow I don't remember recording that or that's going back a bit lol, I couldn't care less about HD and all this blue ray crap, as long as the picture is watchable and the sound it listenable then I'm happy.
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post #28 of 59
3/2/12 at 11:25pm
I have a bought a fair few VHS tapes lately 9/10 are really rare and obscure which were never released on DVD pr Laserdisc and they all look excellent on my little 14 or 15" CRT. If the tapes are in good condition the picture is not that bad i find. And thats not even using a top shelf VHS or S-VHS player either. I actually want to get back into VHS a bit too. I get an 'old skool cool' vibe about it. Starting to buy some blank tapes again. its just a great format for when you need to record something just to watch it and not miss your show and you dont want to keep it so it does not matter if its in SD. However, now that i have digital TV, recording onto VHS is even way better than the analog TV days. I have plans to buy 1 or 2 really good S-VHS decks some time down the track. I also want a Laserdisc player but cant find a good deal on one yet. I need one that plays CLV, CAV and is NTSC/PAL compatible. Just waiting for one of those auctions to come up saying '1 elderly owner, hardly used, works like new, from a smoke free/pet free home'

I have been buying a few brand new laserdiscs lately too which i had plans to send to the UK as there is a guy there who specilazes in Laserdisc transfers to DVD and 1080p conversions of films. Apparantly he has got one of the most expensive/best machines in the world for that. I recall the word 'telecine'? not sure what that means, but apparantly this guy put his life savings into getting the best available machine to work with films. I was refered to him by a VHS transfer specialist. When i asked about doing laserdiscs he said 'contact this guy'
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post #29 of 59
3/3/12 at 8:24am
Are these laserdiscs exclusive material only released on the format?
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post #30 of 59
3/3/12 at 6:05pm
Ummm, yes and no. Some i have bought because they are only on Laserdisc or they are also available on VHS but i obviously want the better version on LD. Sometimes the LD versions have a few different things too.
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