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The cloud goes Hollywood - Page 2

post #31 of 76
Given the mentality of the studio CEOs I wouldn't expect them to jump on lower priced VODs any time soon.
post #32 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

The reason VOD has not ever become a prefered rental medium is the price .. and the price includes the cost to aquire and a markup .. as I said, the studios could price actually slightly higher than a VOD today and make more money than they are currently making as well as lower the price to the consumer .. voila, same or better profit margin ..

I don't thing anything is (that) simple. Take delivering a package. Try delivering a package several thousands miles yourself for less than what UPS and FedEX charges. Outsourcing often saves money as shown by nowadays virtually none of the AV companies build anything themselves. Rather they contract a third-party.

Focusing on VOD the ability of pushing a button on your cable remote to watch the latest release offers untold marketing, convenience and other advantages. Offering instant access to your content to 85% of households via pay-TV versus whatever percentage you could reach via your own delivery method is reason alone not to upset the apple cart anytime soon. Once again I'm not so sure VOD pricing is off course. I can't believe they haven't done enough to know their sweet spot (where lower prices don't bring increased profits).
post #33 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

STARZ suffers the financial loss .. not a good choice, IMO ..

There 19 million subscribers of Starz programming via traditional outlets. If you were managing Comcast or Warner or DirecTV or Dish Network, etc. what would you do if you knew Starz was proving access to their content to another party (Netflix) for a fraction of the price you were paying. IIRC, Starz also demanded that Netflix offer their content on a separate tier.

Starz should generate about 2.736 billion a year from traditional outlets. IMO, they are not going to allow about the same number of subscribers (Netflix) access to their content for a small fraction of the price that traditional outlets pay.
post #34 of 76
Until more and more people wake up and stop paying the exorbitant fees for premium channels or for cable period.
post #35 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Until more and more people wake up and stop paying the exorbitant fees for premium channels or for cable period.

Last numbers I saw the average cellphone bill was higher than the average pay-TV bill.
post #36 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Last numbers I saw the average cellphone bill was higher than the average pay-TV bill.

The very cheapest plan from AT&T is $39.99/month for a single smart phone with a mandatory Data Plan, the cheapest being $20.00/month. For Unlimited minutes it goes to $69.99/month and if you select DataPro that is $50.00/month. So for the cheapest plan you payout $60.00 a month plus taxes and other fees. Sure seems a lot for a single cell phone.
post #37 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

There 19 million subscribers of Starz programming via traditional outlets. If you were managing Comcast or Warner or DirecTV or Dish Network, etc. what would you do if you knew Starz was proving access to their content to another party (Netflix) for a fraction of the price you were paying. IIRC, Starz also demanded that Netflix offer their content on a separate tier.

Starz should generate about 2.736 billion a year from traditional outlets. IMO, they are not going to allow about the same number of subscribers (Netflix) access to their content for a small fraction of the price that traditional outlets pay.

My point was, STARZ passed on the NF offer .. thus, nothing from nothing leaves nothing .. and no one has stepped up to meet the STARZ expectations ..
post #38 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

My point was, STARZ passed on the NF offer .. thus, nothing from nothing leaves nothing .. and no one has stepped up to meet the STARZ expectations ..

I read they are going to start (up) their own streaming service...

Starz President Chris Albrecht said at an investor presentation in New York on Thursday that his network would launch an HBO Go-like application to allow subscribers to watch its content on a variety of digital devices.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ente...deal-ends.html

Albrecht called the decision to cut ties with Netflix "a big boy choice" that will benefit his company in the long term. "We would have eroded...our core business," Albrecht said at the investor conference for his channel's parent company, Liberty Media. "Within two to three years the Netflix deal would have been a drag on Starz's earnings."
post #39 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

My point was, STARZ passed on the NF offer .. thus, nothing from nothing leaves nothing .. and no one has stepped up to meet the STARZ expectations ..

If they took the 300 million from Netflix and it resulted in a loss of 400 million in revenue from other sources would mean a net loss of a 100 million.
post #40 of 76
I don't see new releases going under 3.99 except for specials. I refuse to pay more than $4 for a rental from vudu or any of these other places. They will do whatever they can to stop red box except match them on price. We rent some things from amazon. If you buy it may not always be available in the cloud depending on what deal they have with the studio. So for that reason I'm not into the whole cloud idea for my movies unless you can buy them for not much more than a rental or they give it to you free with the physical copy. Have you ever looked at prices for tv shows? Sometimes you can get a season deal but standard price is 2.99 for a episode in hd even for network shows.

You would eventually have your stuff scattered all over the place with so many cloud services. I think streaming / online rentals are great but "owning" something in the cloud doesn't feel right unless I can download a drm free digial copy of the file.
post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediSpork View Post

I don't see new releases going under 3.99 except for specials. I refuse to pay more than $4 for a rental from vudu or any of these other places. They will do whatever they can to stop red box except match them on price. We rent some things from amazon. If you buy it may not always be available in the cloud depending on what deal they have with the studio. So for that reason I'm not into the whole cloud idea for my movies unless you can buy them for not much more than a rental or they give it to you free with the physical copy. Have you ever looked at prices for tv shows? Sometimes you can get a season deal but standard price is 2.99 for a episode in hd even for network shows.

You would eventually have your stuff scattered all over the place with so many cloud services. I think streaming / online rentals are great but "owning" something in the cloud doesn't feel right unless I can download a drm free digial copy of the file.

All I can do is share my experience on owning films in the cloud....I have been a VUDU customer since it started as a P2P based service.....I currently own over 300 HDX movies that are stored in the cloud with them...I have never had an issue with access to my library at any time......The licenses do not expire, and movies are downloadable to certain devices, including PC's and laptops(in SD only)......A DRM-free digital copy will never happen IMO.....If the DRM is transparent, allows me to do what I want with the movies I purchase, protects Fair Use rights, then I'm ok with it.....Ultraviolet is promising this and more, but the jury is out on it.....We shall see.....
post #42 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediSpork View Post

I don't see new releases going under 3.99 except for specials. I refuse to pay more than $4 for a rental from vudu or any of these other places. They will do whatever they can to stop red box except match them on price. We rent some things from amazon. If you buy it may not always be available in the cloud depending on what deal they have with the studio. So for that reason I'm not into the whole cloud idea for my movies unless you can buy them for not much more than a rental or they give it to you free with the physical copy. Have you ever looked at prices for tv shows? Sometimes you can get a season deal but standard price is 2.99 for a episode in hd even for network shows.

You would eventually have your stuff scattered all over the place with so many cloud services. I think streaming / online rentals are great but "owning" something in the cloud doesn't feel right unless I can download a drm free digial copy of the file.

what donthetech ...

And, I believe the goal is a one website portal / combining the various studios offerings .. this is really not just a cloud issue .. the issue is "Buy the Disk / Get a free cloud copy" .. as well as having a la carte buying on the stream, etc ..
post #43 of 76
When I had some credits on amazon I was looking through the movies and a few of them had a note saying that if you purchase this movie you have to download it to your computer by a certain time because it would no longer be available in the library. Glad to hear you haven't had those issues on vudu.

I think drm is ok at times as long as its implemented properly. I wouldn't put up with it on music though. I use amazon for all my music purchases and its stored in the cloud for free and I can also download a drm free copy anytime I want. I purchase all my games through steam. It would be interesting to have a single services for all your online video purchases. I wonder can you at least store a copy offline and still view if your not connected to the internet? I think some game services allow you to do this as long as you do periodic check ins to the net.

Also what if one of these cloud services gets hacked and your purchases are wiped out? Probably a good idea to keep a receipt. I'm open minded as long as the prices are fair and we have some protection on our purchases.

Edit: Another article about ultraviolet

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/st...ies/52495788/1
post #44 of 76
I love vudu for their free trial movie and high quality trailers, but they have yet to get any cash from me.
post #45 of 76
I couldn't get Netflix last night after 8 PM (Amazon worked fine) on either my WD TV Live or Roku XD and it was supposedly down for a few hours which points to one of the potential failings on media in the cloud.
post #46 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by donthetech View Post

I currently own over 300 HDX movies that are stored in the cloud with them

Snippets from the VUDU TOS:
Quote:


VUDU reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Service in its sole and absolute discretion.

VUDU reserves the right in its sole and absolute discretion to change how it operates the VUDU Service and the Website. You should not consider any description of how the VUDU Service works to be a representation or obligation with respect to how the VUDU Service will work in the future.

These Content Providers may designate limited periods of time when VUDU is prohibited from renting, selling and/or streaming certain Content to you, including Content that you have previously purchased.

We reserve the right to terminate your VUDU Account and/or your use and access to the VUDU Service at any time with or without cause.

The provision of the VUDU Service is subject to the availability and the operational limitations of the requisite equipment and associated facilities. You understand and agree that temporary interruptions of the VUDU Service, including VUDU's ability to stream rented or purchased movies to you, may occur as normal events in the provision of the VUDU Service and that VUDU is not liable for such interruptions.

I would wager that if VUDU folds up shop you will lose access to all those titles you purchased you will not have any legal recourse to gain access to the license that you purchased.
post #47 of 76
Thread Starter 
Which essentially holds true for any service of this type / as well as warrantees on real physical CE goods, etc .. it's the standard disclaimer ..
post #48 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Which essentially holds true for any service of this type

Yea, I know. IIRC, Microsoft left many people holding the bag when they got out of the music business. Because of the backlash they did extend DRM support for three years.

I have ZERO DRM items other than Amazon Prime that requires me to be connected in order to use it. And I have been connected a long time (BBSs from the mid 80's, CompuServe late 80's to mid 90's, internet early 90's to present).
post #49 of 76
Thread Starter 
As a former ZUNE owner, I still think it was the best device of it's kind .. but, MS was just not prepared for the long haul, I guess ..
post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Which essentially holds true for any service of this type / as well as warrantees on real physical CE goods, etc .. it's the standard disclaimer ..


I have music cd's that are close to 30 years old that still play and sound great. How many high profile music dl/streaming services have closed down in the last decade? I can think of at least three. MS, Yahoo and Wal-Mart for sure.
post #51 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

I have music cd's that are close to 30 years old that still play and sound great. How many high profile music dl/streaming services have closed down in the last decade? I can think of at least three. MS, Yahoo and Wal-Mart for sure.

Yep, it's hard to beat the physical media .. I am in the middle of digitizing my LP collection of several thousand 33 RPM's (which I hope to finish in my lifetime) .. and they still sound great as well ..

To be fair, though, as long as you download a DRM free track and back it up a few times, the closing of the provider should not be an issue .. at least on a music track ..
post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Yep, it's hard to beat the physical media .. I am in the middle of digitizing my LP collection of several thousand 33 RPM's (which I hope to finish in my lifetime) .. and they still sound great as well ..


I've digitized around 100 lps with about another 300 to go. It's pretty time consuming, but worth it. The project is on hold for the next few years though because I've gone back to college. Same one my oldest son attends!
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Snippets from the VUDU TOS:


I would wager that if VUDU folds up shop you will lose access to all those titles you purchased you will not have any legal recourse to gain access to the license that you purchased.

I am well aware of the VUDU TOS, I read it from top to bottom before I made any purchases...All I can say is I have had no problem accessing my films any time I want to...That being said, downloading to local storage is an important issue for me due to some of the reasons you cite......Ultraviolet is supposed to offer this functionality and the ability to play your movies offline......There is risk in any activity one does, so far all is good......I don't know, if people lose their money because VUDU folds up, I think there is a lawyer out there smart enough to to protect the consumer's rights......I ran the TOS by one that I know and he seems to think its all boilerplate.......
post #54 of 76
Thread Starter 
I believe that even in a worse case VUDU shutdown, which I don't see happening, Walmart will step up with some sort of compensation ..
post #55 of 76
The Ultraviolet web site has essentially the same language as Vudu's. In fact, purchasing an Ultraviolet title gives one only an iron-clad guarantee of 1 year of viewing. Anything beyond that may incur additional fees. This language for Ultraviolet applied to every scenario I could think of. They left nothing to chance.
post #56 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

If they took the 300 million from Netflix and it resulted in a loss of 400 million in revenue from other sources would mean a net loss of a 100 million.


That would be a pretty big assumption though. I really doubt that many people getting Starz from a pay-tv provider would drop it in favor of Netflix. Especially if pq was important to them. And Starz is standard in many providers upper tiers where HBO/Cinnemax/Showtime aren't. IMO, after getting Starz for free from Dish this past year, Starz is over-valueing themselves.
post #57 of 76
Thread Starter 
The NF/Starz deal died more from the fact that Starz wanted pricing as a tier level on NF .. likely due to pressure from their other partners .. particularly Sony and Disney ..
post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by donthetech View Post

I don't know, if people lose their money because VUDU folds up, I think there is a lawyer out there smart enough to to protect the consumer's rights

and what rights would that be. In effect you have none, you agreed to that when you signed onto the service. You agreed they could change the TOS anytime and without any recourse.

Its very simple, if you want to play you pays your quarter and takes your chance. Ever been to Vegas?
post #59 of 76
Thread Starter 
Although Wendell is correct, it's not quite like rolling the dice .. VUDU is owned by Walmart .. not some start up / thinly capitalized outfit ..
post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Although Wendell is correct, it's not quite like rolling the dice .. VUDU is owned by Walmart .. not some start up / thinly capitalized outfit ..

That does not mean anything, Walmart has already shown they will abandon certain ventures. I am not trying to imply they are about to shut down VUDU, I am saying if they determine VUDU to be a drag on them then they will sell it or shut it down in a heartbeat.
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