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Pixel format spontaneously changes - ATI - Page 2

post #31 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

There is no mechanism in EDID to report TVs video processor overscan state. So no it can't be programmed.

This is not what I'm saying at all. I'm not expecting Catalyst to know the overscan of a TV. What I want is for Catalyst to know that I want the same overscan compensation (or lack thereof) for every single refresh rate. This is feasible.
post #32 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Completely disagree. No idea how any of that is relevant for HTPC?

Show me some screenshots --- any screenshots --- that ATI is objectively better than the others.

And as demonstrated here and in numerous other ATI threads on AVS the ATI drivers are among the worst drivers for bugginess and reliability for HTPC and HDTV. I don't care what ATI/NVidia/Intel fanboys purport to be the best if I can't use the damn hardware because of horrible drivers.

There simply is no noticeable difference in PQ for Intel vs ATI vs NVidia for 1080p HD Video. For gaming - sure - but the vast minority on AVS game on their HTPC.

Spending it on the CPU? A G620 is $50 and the i3 2100 is $99 (and prices are dropping very soon).


Hey it's not AMDs fault users have trouble building and installing a PC and installing drivers in the RIGHT SEQUENCE.

You can blame AMD and Intel for not providing portal posts that are easy to get to for the latest chipset drivers. Thing is they want venders to provide these... but vendors post old versions and are slow to update their sites and FTP servers.
post #33 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Hey it's not AMDs fault users have trouble building and installing a PC and installing drivers in the RIGHT SEQUENCE.

You can blame AMD and Intel for not providing portal posts that are easy to get to for the latest chipset drivers. Thing is they want venders to provide these... but vendors post old versions and are slow to update their sites and FTP servers.

So you are calling AVS users out on not knowing how to install drivers?

Not likely. AVS users are some of the best and most educated PC users on the net.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the user and everything to do with the quality of the product.

Again, I am open to hearing your objective argument. Please post screenshots showing a clear improvement of ATI over everyone else. Otherwise the hassle just isn't worth it for many of us.
post #34 of 149
Those people with issues.

1. Install directX web installer
2. uninstall your video drivers
3. use driversweeper to cleanout old cat stuff
4. be sure to power cycle between those steps
5. INSTALL YOUR MOTHERBOARD CHIPSET DRIVERS!
6. Install video drivers

Intel chipset drivers download

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Deta...ility&lang=eng

AMD chipset drivers download

http://www2.ati.com/drivers/12-1_vis...7_32-64_sb.exe

Those are both updated and I bet 99% of you don't have the latest chipset drivers. This can have an affect specifically on Intel platforms as they have been working on the memory controller driver, Intel firmware hub device and Intel MEI.
post #35 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

So you are calling AVS users out on not knowing how to install drivers?

Not likely. AVS users are some of the best and most educated PC users on the net.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the user and everything to do with the quality of the product.

Again, I am open to hearing your objective argument. Please post screenshots showing a clear improvement of ATI over everyone else. Otherwise the hassle just isn't worth it for many of us.

With the advent of TMDS the difference isn't as large as it was back in the RAMDAC days. Matrox and ATI ALWAYS had better RAMDACs and BETTER PQ. Anyone that builds DAW/DCC etc workstations knows/knew this. At this point in the game the differences are in the video processing engines. In that regard UVD 3.x is unmatched.

Here is the white paper assassin.

http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://...H3QPUA&cad=rja
post #36 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post


So you are calling AVS users out on not knowing how to install drivers?

Not likely. AVS users are some of the best and most educated PC users on the net.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the user and everything to do with the quality of the product.

Again, I am open to hearing your objective argument. Please post screenshots showing a clear improvement of ATI over everyone else. Otherwise the hassle just isn't worth it for many of us.

A pixel by pixel comparison is in order here.. but from across the living room on my couch where all the pixels meld together to become a fabulous picture I'm not sure I'd notice the difference.

And right now I don't need 4k or even 3D for that matter because my AVR and HDTV don't support it. This i3 HTPC does everything needed right now. When I go to upgrade it'll be the whole system so that won't be for a while as I just went through all that over the last few years and am done for now.
post #37 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Those people with issues.

1. Install directX web installer
2. uninstall your video drivers
3. use driversweeper to cleanout old cat stuff
4. be sure to power cycle between those steps
5. INSTALL YOUR MOTHERBOARD CHIPSET DRIVERS!
6. Install video drivers

Intel chipset drivers download

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Deta...ility&lang=eng

AMD chipset drivers download

http://www2.ati.com/drivers/12-1_vis...7_32-64_sb.exe

Those are both updated and I bet 99% of you don't have the latest chipset drivers. This can have an affect specifically on Intel platforms as they have been working on the memory controller driver Intel firmware hub device and Intel MEI.

99%?

No idea what you are trying to do here.

Post in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&highlight=ati

400,000 views of people trying to solve ATI problems.
post #38 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Hey it's not AMDs fault users have trouble building and installing a PC and installing drivers in the RIGHT SEQUENCE.

You can blame AMD and Intel for not providing portal posts that are easy to get to for the latest chipset drivers. Thing is they want venders to provide these... but vendors post old versions and are slow to update their sites and FTP servers.

This is completely absurd. How would the average end user know that they need to uninstall their current drivers and all associated software, restart, run drivesweeper, restart, and then find an download the new drivers. There is absolutely nothing intuitive about this at all. First of all, the software should notify the user when an important update is available. How else is the user going to know that something more stable is available? Am I simply suppose to check ATI's website weekly? My Catalyst told me my software and drivers were up to date when they actually weren't. This is broken!

Secondly, if installing new drivers over top of old ones will completely break my system, then at the very least the installer should tell me "Hey you should do it this way in order to not break anything."

You should not have to be technically savvy to upgrade graphics drivers. 100% of computers in the world connected to a monitor have some sort of display driver. So, updating graphics drivers should be easy and intuitive! I don't have to go through some convoluted process every time there's a Windows update, so why should it be so hard to upgrade my graphics driver?
post #39 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

With the advent of TMDS the difference isn't as large as it was back in the RAMDAC days. Matrox and ATI ALWAYS had better RAMDACs and BETTER PQ. Anyone that builds DAW/DCC etc workstations knows/knew this. At this point in the game the differences are in the video processing engines. In that regard UVD 3.x is unmatched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

A pixel by pixel comparison is in order here.. but from across the living room on my couch where all the pixels meld together to become a fabulous picture I'm not sure I'd notice the difference.

And right now I don't need 4k or even 3D for that matter because my AVR and HDTV don't support it. This i3 HTPC does everything needed right now. When I go to upgrade it'll be the whole system so that won't be for a while as I just went through all that over the last few years and am done for now.

This is one of the most ridiculous threads in a while.

Some people just don't get HTPC (not you Sammy2) or what its about.

And I agree with what Sammy2 is saying. I have used all 3. No difference. If anything the Intel and NVidia PQ was slightly better to my eyes. And the horrible drivers from ATI made it an easy choice for me.
post #40 of 149
assassin are you willing to share with me your staging process in terms of sequence of drivers and support software that you install on your prefab HTPCs.

I'm very interested.
post #41 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

assassin are you willing to share with me your staging process in terms of sequence of drivers and support software that you install on your prefab HTPCs.

I'm very interested.

No.
post #42 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

99%?

No idea what you are trying to do here.

Post in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&highlight=ati

400,000 views of people trying to solve ATI problems.

What I'm trying to do is help people.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=ati#comp

agrees with what I'm saying even...
post #43 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

What I'm trying to do is help people.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=ati#comp

agrees with what I'm saying even...

Date:
Quote:


[2010/07/28]
post #44 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

This is one of the most ridiculous threads in a while.

Some people just don't get HTPC (not you Sammy2) or what its about.

Ridiculous to post useful info?

I don't get HTPC but I worked for ONE OF THREE tire 1 custom PC fabricators and engineered their HTPC solutions. And had friends on the HTPC dev team at HP.

huh

I guess I need to shoot you money to get your pdf so I can learn a thing or two.

post #45 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Ridiculous to post useful info?

I don't get HTPC but I worked for ONE OF THREE tire 1 custom PC fabricators and engineered their HTPC solutions. And had friends on the HTPC dev team at HP.

huh

I guess I need to shoot you money to get your pdf so I can learn a thing or two.


Post useful info.

Just don't insult peoples' intelligence in the process.
post #46 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

So you are calling AVS users out on not knowing how to install drivers?


Yeah I am... and the dude I'm helping just admitted doing so... (installing drivers over the top of existing ones)

Please lets be polite.
post #47 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Post useful info.

Just don't insult peoples' intelligence in the process.

So this comment is designed to tell me indirectly that I'm insulting people's intelligence and that I don't post useful info.

WHY are all the regulars here on AVS so...

__________

My help is a lot better than simply offering no real solutions and then damming an entire company. I guess you should join the cat dev team and show them how to create drivers properly ehh
post #48 of 149
I'm wrong about the Intel firmware hub device and Intel MEI but I'm certain the memory controller driver is new.

I sure wish intel would provide a driver changelog that's detailed. AMD is horrible in this regard as well.

Lets get off on a better foot assassin.

I'm most certain I could learn a lot from you. If I purchase your document are you willing to share staging insights?

BRB I'm going to update my chipset drivers as my are old too!

I guess I'm apart of that 99%

post #49 of 149
Not a problem. I like alternative viewpoints and always can learn something new.

You just came in here guns blazing.
post #50 of 149
README with the Intel chipset driver package.

Quote:


The Intel(R) Chipset Device Software installs Windows*
INF files to the target system. These files outline to
the operating system how to configure the Intel(R) chipset
components in order to ensure that the following features
function properly:

- Core PCI and ISAPNP Services
- PCIe Support
- IDE/ATA33/ATA66/ATA100 Storage Support
- SATA Storage Support
- USB Support
- Identification of Intel(R) Chipset Components in
the Device Manager


7. It is recommended that the Intel(R) Chipset Device Software
be installed onto the target system prior to the
installation of other drivers.
post #51 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Not a problem. I like alternative viewpoints and always can learn something new.

You just came in here guns blazing.

That's just my style assassin...

Seriously I'm a good guy! and I'm told I'm funny from peers at work. I love to needle people and that's all I meant with you.

Your contributions to HTPC are truly UNMATCHED in the community and for that I'll TIP MY HAT and order your pdf tonight.

seriously

I'm most certain I could learn a thing or two from that document and all the hard work put into it.
post #52 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

That's just my style assassin...

Seriously I'm a good guy! and I'm told I'm funny from peers at work. I love to needle people and that's all I meant with you.

Your contributions to HTPC are truly UNMATCHED in the community and for that I'll TIP MY HAT and order your pdf tonight.

seriously

I'm most certain I could learn a thing or two from that document and all the hard work put into it.

Its not a pdf. Its a group of guides with links, examples, etc.

All illustrated. All step by step.
post #53 of 149
BTW the Intel chipset installer is really STUPID and you might have to do the following to get it to update the bloody drivers.

************************************************************
* 9F. INSTALLING THE Windows 7* INF FILES AFTER
* OS INSTALLATION
************************************************************
Some Intel(R) chipset platforms already are supported by
Windows 7* so it may not be necessary to use the INF
files provided by this software to update Windows 7*.

The following steps describe the installation process of
the Windows 7* INF files. You may need to repeat these
steps to update all Intel(R) chipset devices not supported
by Windows 7*.

1. Copy the contents of the
\\XXXX\\Win7
directory to the root directory A removable media,
such as a USB flash drive (UFD) or floppy disk (A:\\).

NOTE:
XXXX is the directory name for the chipset
of interest. Refer to Section 8 for more details.

2. Close all programs currently running on the system.
3. Click on Start.
4. Select Settings.
5. Select the Control Panel.
6. Double-click on the System icon.
7. Click on the Hardware tab.
8. Click on the Device Manager button.
9. Select "Devices by connection" under the View menu.
10. Click on MPS Uniprocessor PC -OR- MPS
Multiprocessor PC.

NOTE:
Only one of the above items will be
displayed for a given system.

11. Click on PCI bus.
12. Right-click on the line containing the description
PCI standard host CPU bridge
-or-
PCI standard ISA bridge
-or-
PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge
-or-
PCI System Management Bus
-or-
Standard Dual PCI IDE Controller
-or-
Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller
(This line will be selected.)
13. Select Properties from the pull-down menu.
14. Click on the Driver tab.
15. Click on the Update Driver button.
16. Windows 7* will launch the Upgrade Device
Driver Wizard. Select Browse my computer for the driver software.
17. Enter "A:\\" in the Combo Box
18. Ensure that the Include Subfolders checkbox is checked
19. Select Next
20. The window Will Display the Device that was installed
21. Select Close
22. Reboot the system if prompted to do so.
post #54 of 149
OR

You can use the -OVERALL switch!

Anyway I hope my posts can help AVS readers because that's my real intent everybody...

to HELP PEOPLE and to LEARN from OTHERS.
post #55 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Some have many issues with ATI. Some have issues with NVidia and Intel.

It just seems like hanging around AVS there are more issues with ATI than the other in regards to annoying things like screen resolution changes (on its own), EDID problems, etc.

It's pretty simple really... ATI/AMD sell more graphics cards to HTPC users than the other vendors over the years. More product out there... more problems people will have.


Quote:


And the PQ quality thing is baloney. Completely subjective.

Yet... it's consistently better in PQ when reviewers compare vendors... review after review after review? That's not baloney. That's better PQ.
post #56 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

It's pretty simple really... ATI/AMD sell more graphics cards to HTPC users than the other vendors over the years. More product out there... more problems people will have.




Yet... it's consistently better in PQ when reviewers compare vendors... review after review after review? That's not baloney. That's better PQ.

For 1080p? Show me.
post #57 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

And as demonstrated here and in numerous other ATI threads on AVS the ATI drivers are among the worst drivers for bugginess and reliability for HTPC and HDTV. I don't care what ATI/NVidia/Intel fanboys purport to be the best if I can't use the damn hardware because of horrible drivers.

I call FUD. What card and graphics driver revision did you use? How long ago was that?


Quote:


There simply is no noticeable difference in PQ for Intel vs ATI vs NVidia for 1080p HD Video. For gaming - sure - but the vast minority on AVS game on their HTPC.

You better put "in my opinion" there... because time and time again reviewers (professional and amature) disagree with you on this point.
post #58 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

This is not what I'm saying at all. I'm not expecting Catalyst to know the overscan of a TV. What I want is for Catalyst to know that I want the same overscan compensation (or lack thereof) for every single refresh rate. This is feasible.

Geeze... AMD give you a *feature* and you cry about it?

Not that I'd have any use for it, but the ability to fine-tune every resolution to a specific overscan percentage could be useful, especially if you use analog video. And yes, there are plenty of people out there who still use analog video.
post #59 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

I call FUD. What card and graphics driver revision did you use? How long ago was that?




You better put "in my opinion" there... because time and time again reviewers (professional and amature) disagree with you on this point.

Not just my opinion unfortunately.

Again please post objective (or even subjective) reviews relevant to htpc (non gaming).
post #60 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

You should not have to be technically savvy to upgrade graphics drivers. 100% of computers in the world connected to a monitor have some sort of display driver. So, updating graphics drivers should be easy and intuitive! I don't have to go through some convoluted process every time there's a Windows update, so why should it be so hard to upgrade my graphics driver?



Why would the "average" user need to update their graphics driver? Answer? They don't. And the vast, vast, vast majority of AMD graphics users have no problem. Those in the gaming and HTPC realm do like to upgrade their graphics driver for better or worse. For gaming, I can see why... for HTPC... why would you need to update? If it's not broke, don't fix it.
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