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Help me prevent "Buyer's Remorse"

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Good day,

First I Must apologize that In my first post I ask so much, but I need another set of thoughts other than my own (with the side effect of the likelihood that you all know abit more about the ups and downs of "Sound" than I do).
That said I am semi-fully versed in the ins and outs of audio. This is only due in part to my expansive research and "googleing" skills. So much reading!!

After much research I (thought) I chose the Yamaha YSP-5100 due to it being an active sound bar (meaning I won't need to buy an Av Receiver and I save a power outlet) and it apparently gives off the best "surround sound" effect of any sound bar currently on the market. Also HDMI... I <3 HDMI ('Cus 7.1 is BOSS).

Along my net search I came across the B+W Panorama and the Polk SurroundBar 6000 , and while they look and review quite nice they didn't seem to have all the up to date components I'm looking for (more on that in a moment). That said, since this is a SOUNDbar the way the sound sounds is Important and so this is one place where I am getting hung up on. (F.Y.I I am using "a soundbar" for everything. Music [Mostly Trance...and Queen >_>], Blue-Ray Movies, and Video Games)

The thing is that these sound bars came out around 2009-ish. This is where my concern comes in. With the sheer EXPENSE some of these units have, even today, I need to be absolutely sure (as far as a consumer can at the very least) that If I buy "Soundbar" that they won't have a new and improved unit 6-months from now that I somehow missed. For that I defer to you all.

So there are my concerns to start off with. More to say as per reply.

(F.Y.I-2 Dream Best Case For a Small Room: Looking for a Active Soundbar with DTS-HD Master Audio/Dolby TrueHD/PCM capability (so HDMI) with the best "surround sound" effect possible. Would prefer it to somehow have the ability for a wireless subwoofer. Truly a HTiB .)

Thoughts?
post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post

Good day,

First I Must apologize that In my first post I ask so much, but I need another set of thoughts other than my own (with the side effect of the likelihood that you all know abit more about the ups and downs of "Sound" than I do).
That said I am semi-fully versed in the ins and outs of audio. This is only due in part to my expansive research and "googleing" skills. So much reading!!

After much research I (thought) I chose the Yamaha YSP-5100 due to it being an active sound bar (meaning I won't need to buy an Av Receiver and I save a power outlet) and it apparently gives off the best "surround sound" effect of any sound bar currently on the market. Also HDMI... I <3 HDMI ('Cus 7.1 is BOSS).

Along my net search I came across the B+W Panorama and the Polk SurroundBar 6000 , and while they look and review quite nice they didn't seem to have all the up to date components I'm looking for (more on that in a moment). That said, since this is a SOUNDbar the way the sound sounds is Important and so this is one place where I am getting hung up on. (F.Y.I I am using "a soundbar" for everything. Music [Mostly Trance...and Queen >_>], Blue-Ray Movies, and Video Games)

The thing is that these sound bars came out around 2009-ish. This is where my concern comes in. With the sheer EXPENSE some of these units have, even today, I need to be absolutely sure (as far as a consumer can at the very least) that If I buy "Soundbar" that they won't have a new and improved unit 6-months from now that I somehow missed. For that I defer to you all.

So there are my concerns to start off with. More to say as per reply.

(F.Y.I-2 Dream Best Case For a Small Room: Looking for a Active Soundbar with DTS-HD Master Audio/Dolby TrueHD/PCM capability (so HDMI) with the best "surround sound" effect possible. Would prefer it to somehow have the ability for a wireless subwoofer. Truly a HTiB .)

Thoughts?

Thourouh thill,
You did good. The ysp 5100 'i' think is the best out there. It does all the lossless decoding, does 7.1, and the magic that makes the Yamaha ysps so great. With a good subwoofer, walls, and set up well, i dont think you can do better in the world of soundbars
post #3 of 18
Think you did well. I just bought the yamaha s401 which also decodes true hd and dts hd, plus you can add rear satellites to it. That's future proof IMO.
post #4 of 18
Yep,,, the YSP's are great soundbars (Im a past YSP owner, and have owned a TON of other soundbars) ,, but with that being said I will say that my current new Bose 1SR is my new favorite bar.

No it does not have HDMI inputs but thats no big deal at all when using the digital audio inputs.

What the Bose decodes and what the YSP's decode dont really make a difference when it comes to how each of them sound in the real world.

To my ears the Bose is the better sounding soundbar with a better surround effect,,,, and a bit cheaper as well with the wireless sub included.

Just my thoughts/opinions.

Cheers
Davyo
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo View Post

Yep,,, the YSP's are great soundbars (Im a past YSP owner, and have owned a TON of other soundbars) ,, but with that being said I will say that my current new Bose 1SR is my new favorite bar.

No it does not have HDMI inputs but thats no big deal at all when using the digital audio inputs.

What the Bose decodes and what the YSP's decode dont really make a difference when it comes to how each of them sound in the real world.

To my ears the Bose is the better sounding soundbar with a better surround effect,,,, and a bit cheaper as well with the wireless sub included.

Just my thoughts/opinions.

Cheers
Davyo

It's funny you say that since I literately just returned my Bose SoundBar, which - while I admit the sound was nice - I found it didn't fill the room in my case, even after playing with the "AdaptIQ" system. I found the price ($1500) didn't match the potential. Also technically "it does not have HDMI inputs but thats no big deal at all when using the digital audio inputs" is incorrect in the perspective of HDMI currently being the only connection that supports 7.1, with the rest of the digital connections only supporting up to 5.1, but that's just me being picky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Thourouh thill,
You did good. The ysp 5100 'i' think is the best out there. It does all the lossless decoding, does 7.1, and the magic that makes the Yamaha ysps so great. With a good subwoofer, walls, and set up well, i dont think you can do better in the world of soundbars

At its retail standard price I would certainly hope so! Even than though it doesn't come with a sub. It comes with a "Wireless Subwoofer Kit" which I am concerned will only work with Yamahas Subs. Does anyone here know how or even if the SWK-W10 works with non-yamaha Subs? And on that note recommend a (preferably down facing) Subwoofer that is more sound than "woomph". I don't need it so that my neighbor across the cul-de-sac can hear what I'm watching, just need to fill the (small) room with quick-and-true sound be it yahmaha or not.

( And, since my brain demands demands to make a sure thing more complicated "What if the B+W Panorama sounds better in this room even without HDMI?" "What if all I need in this room is the Polk SurroundBar 6000. Its Cheaper in price!" DX SHUT UP BRAIN OR I'LL STAB YOU WITH A Q-TIP!!)
post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post


It's funny you say that since I literately just returned my Bose SoundBar, which - while I admit the sound was nice - I found it didn't fill the room in my case, even after playing with the "AdaptIQ" system. I found the price ($1500) didn't match the potential. Also technically "it does not have HDMI inputs but thats no big deal at all when using the digital audio inputs" is incorrect in the perspective of HDMI currently being the only connection that supports 7.1, with the rest of the digital connections only supporting up to 5.1, but that's just me being picky.

At its retail standard price I would certainly hope so! Even than though it doesn't come with a sub. It comes with a "Wireless Subwoofer Kit" which I am concerned will only work with Yamahas Subs. Does anyone here know how or even if the SWK-W10 works with non-yamaha Subs? And on that note recommend a (preferably down facing) Subwoofer that is more sound than "woomph". I don't need it so that my neighbor across the cul-de-sac can hear what I'm watching, just need to fill the (small) room with quick-and-true sound be it yahmaha or not.

( And, since my brain demands demands to make a sure thing more complicated "What if the B+W Panorama sounds better in this room even without HDMI?" "What if all I need in this room is the Polk SurroundBar 6000. Its Cheaper in price!" DX SHUT UP BRAIN OR I'LL STAB YOU WITH A Q-TIP!!)

The Hsu stf1 is on sale at the moment. No sub that comes with a soundbar is even close. And at the sale price, it's a steal. Not wireless though.
The Panorama is a terrific sounding sound bar. I think it's hands down the best for music. And it doesn't 'need' a sub. But as far as surround sound, and filling a room ( that has walls) with what really sounds like discrete 5.1, the yamaha 5100 ( WELL CALIBRATED) ,with a good sub, I think is far better.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

The Hsu stf1 is on sale at the moment. No sub that comes with a soundbar is even close. And at the sale price, it's a steal. Not wireless though.
The Panorama is a terrific sounding sound bar. I think it's hands down the best for music. And it doesn't 'need' a sub. But as far as surround sound, and filling a room ( that has walls) with what really sounds like discrete 5.1, the yamaha 5100 ( WELL CALIBRATED) ,with a good sub, I think is far better.

Yes I saw that, Hsu Subs look pretty good on paper and review really well.
At this point all I really need to know then is will said sub work with yamahas "Wireless Subwoofer Kit" that comes with the Yamaha YSP-5100?

The image for what I think in the most pertinent page of the manual for what I ask, where in theory just about any sub with such a port should work, but I don't know. Yamaha may have put some tech in the device where it only works with Yamaha Subs. Like I said don't know. Its why I ask. I know wired is of course better, but I like to know my options before I buy.

I guess Ill just have to listen to music off some Senn's if I find music to be off.

Edit: Found a bargain on a Yamaha YSP-5100 and pounced. Presuming its all good and legit, I was able to get it for under $1400. That's less then a YSP-4100 goes for. Unless something else comes up, at this point its all about the subwoofer. Should I continue this thread or should I defer and make a new thread in the "Subwoofer" section of this forum?
LL
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post

It's funny you say that since I literately just returned my Bose SoundBar, which - while I admit the sound was nice - I found it didn't fill the room in my case, even after playing with the "AdaptIQ" system. I found the price ($1500) didn't match the potential. Also technically "it does not have HDMI inputs but thats no big deal at all when using the digital audio inputs" is incorrect in the perspective of HDMI currently being the only connection that supports 7.1, with the rest of the digital connections only supporting up to 5.1, but that's just me being picky.



At its retail standard price I would certainly hope so! Even than though it doesn't come with a sub. It comes with a "Wireless Subwoofer Kit" which I am concerned will only work with Yamahas Subs. Does anyone here know how or even if the SWK-W10 works with non-yamaha Subs? And on that note recommend a (preferably down facing) Subwoofer that is more sound than "woomph". I don't need it so that my neighbor across the cul-de-sac can hear what I'm watching, just need to fill the (small) room with quick-and-true sound be it yahmaha or not.

( And, since my brain demands demands to make a sure thing more complicated "What if the B+W Panorama sounds better in this room even without HDMI?" "What if all I need in this room is the Polk SurroundBar 6000. Its Cheaper in price!" DX SHUT UP BRAIN OR I'LL STAB YOU WITH A Q-TIP!!)

Correct about the HDMI passing 7.1 but when using a soundbar is anyone going to even notice the difference between a 5.1 passed thru an optical cable vs a 7.1 passed thru an HDMI connection when using a soundbar,,, with a soundbar I dont think one would be able to tell a difference of 5.1 vs 7.1.

As far as the cost factor,, to me the Bose includes the sub (which is also wireless,,,,, if your buying a YSP 5100 and then adding a wired sub the cost is even more (I think) with the YSP.

As far as the Bose not filling your room,, thats the bitch about all soundbars, they all react differently in different rooms,,,, the only way to see which soundbar is going to work for a room is to take it home and try it out in person.

For me the Bose works best (in my room) but thats not to take anything away from the YSP's,,,, they truly are great soundbars.

Cheers
Davyo
post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
I received the Yamaha YSP-5100 three days ago. After setting it up first automatically and then manually I must say I am quite impressed by initial results, and that's without a subwoofer.

For those just reading this trying to decide, the surround effect is very much not not the same as an actual true blue surround speaker set up. What that means by my initial interpretation with out a subwoofer, is that there is a subtle... less "pronounced direct loudness" to the sounds that surround you. This is of course because its sound bouncing off of walls instead of being produced by a source so I suppose a little degradation in the loudness is to be expected.

Unless you are really picky, this really doesn't matter. The effect when PROPERLY calibrated in a room I find is quite full in its immersive qualitys. This unit has the ability to save your presets, so what I would do is when I found a bunch of settings that I liked (angle of beams both vert and horz, power of beams (length) and so fourth) and would save it in one of the three memory slots, than play with it some more. I have been using at supplied YAMAHA Demo DVD.

On that note, anyone have a Blu-Ray Movie suggestion to help assist me in assessing the full ability of the surround effect and quality of sound?

Thank You for the assistance. I will have full thoughts later, including stuff about wireing.
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post

I received the Yamaha YSP-5100 three days ago. After setting it up first automatically and then manually I must say I am quite impressed by initial results, and that's without a subwoofer.

For those just reading this trying to decide, the surround effect is very much not not the same as an actual true blue surround speaker set up. What that means by my initial interpretation with out a subwoofer, is that there is a subtle... less "pronounced direct loudness" to the sounds that surround you. This is of course because its sound bouncing off of walls instead of being produced by a source so I suppose a little degradation in the loudness is to be expected.

Unless you are really picky, this really doesn't matter. The effect when PROPERLY calibrated in a room I find is quite full in its immersive qualitys. This unit has the ability to save your presets, so what I would do is when I found a bunch of settings that I liked (angle of beams both vert and horz, power of beams (length) and so fourth) and would save it in one of the three memory slots, than play with it some more. I have been using at supplied YAMAHA Demo DVD.

On that note, anyone have a Blu-Ray Movie suggestion to help assist me in assessing the full ability of the surround effect and quality of sound?

Thank You for the assistance. I will have full thoughts later, including stuff about wireing.

I have the YSP-2200, and I found the surround effects on the following blu rays impressive:

The Empire Strikes Back - entire Hoth beginning, and virtually all space scenes, especially the asteroid field sequence

The Hunt for Red October - the sequence where Red October is evading the torpedo after they've lost the caterpillar drive, room comes alive with sound

Matrix Revolutions - lots of great surround sound scenes

I think The Dark Knight is a pretty good disc to demo, but the surround sound with that film is a lot subtler than the discs mentioned above. With TDK, the surround effects are primarily music oriented but are almost always there.

Would love to hear your impressions on the 5100.
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoroughThil View Post

I received the Yamaha YSP-5100 three days ago. After setting it up first automatically and then manually I must say I am quite impressed by initial results, and that's without a subwoofer.

For those just reading this trying to decide, the surround effect is very much not not the same as an actual true blue surround speaker set up. What that means by my initial interpretation with out a subwoofer, is that there is a subtle... less "pronounced direct loudness" to the sounds that surround you. This is of course because its sound bouncing off of walls instead of being produced by a source so I suppose a little degradation in the loudness is to be expected.

Unless you are really picky, this really doesn't matter. The effect when PROPERLY calibrated in a room I find is quite full in its immersive qualitys. This unit has the ability to save your presets, so what I would do is when I found a bunch of settings that I liked (angle of beams both vert and horz, power of beams (length) and so fourth) and would save it in one of the three memory slots, than play with it some more. I have been using at supplied YAMAHA Demo DVD.

On that note, anyone have a Blu-Ray Movie suggestion to help assist me in assessing the full ability of the surround effect and quality of sound?

Thank You for the assistance. I will have full thoughts later, including stuff about wireing.

Congrats.
Wait till you get a sub integrated with it. I believe we crossed paths on the sub forum about this.
I would advise a sub that has good midbass output over 100 or 120 hz. Once you cross the soundbar over @ 120 hz and relieve it of trying to reproduce deeper bass the 5100 will shine even more.
Subs that are strong over 120 hz for reasonable $$ include : Epik Legend, Rythmik F12G, SVS PB12-NSD, Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or EX, Hsu VTF's.

I have my 5100 paired with an Epik Empire EQ'd by an Antimode 8033s in a bedroom and it is nothing short of amazing what this simple set up can produce.
It's not comparable to my full 7.2 HT set up with powered towers and dual Submersive HP's, but after getting used to premium quality HT I still find my bedroom rig quite enjoyable. The 5100/Empire combo is that good.
Tim
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post


Congrats.
Wait till you get a sub integrated with it. I believe we crossed paths on the sub forum about this.
I would advise a sub that has good midbass output over 100 or 120 hz. Once you cross the soundbar over @ 120 hz and relieve it of trying to reproduce deeper bass the 5100 will shine even more.
Subs that are strong over 120 hz for reasonable $$ include : Epik Legend, Rythmik F12G, SVS PB12-NSD, Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or EX, Hsu VTF's.

I have my 5100 paired with an Epik Empire EQ'd by an Antimode 8033s in a bedroom and it is nothing short of amazing what this simple set up can produce.
It's not comparable to my full 7.2 HT set up with powered towers and dual Submersive HP's, but after getting used to premium quality HT I still find my bedroom rig quite enjoyable. The 5100/Empire combo is that good.
Tim

+1
A man that knows the importance of having a really good subwoofer with a soundbar. Especially the YSPs. Funny, I just heard one with a HSU uls. In the past, I would have thought, total overkill. Nope, ..sounded utterly spectacular. Makes all the difference in the world really to what the YSPs can do, and the whole tonal image that you get.
post #13 of 18
I agree. Each driver has its own digital amp. The YSP 4100/5100 can remain quite clean to very high SPL when crossed over at 120 hz. It does fine crossed lower but it has tons of headroom (for a soundbar) if the sub takes care of 80-120 hz.
Tim
post #14 of 18
Is the B&W Panorama not as good for movies as the Yamaha 5100?
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrtrager View Post

Is the B&W Panorama not as good for movies as the Yamaha 5100?

I don't think so. I think it's terrific for music,.. but the 5100 set up right with walls and with a killer subwoofer can literally create a small movie theater.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrtrager View Post

Is the B&W Panorama not as good for movies as the Yamaha 5100?

I demo'd half a dozen upper tier soundbars before choosing the 5100. The Panorama was my second favorite. It has excellent drivers and was definitely better than the 5100 at music as Lou said. For home theater the Panorama was powerful but not immersive like the YSP 5100.
As Lou stated if you have 3 1/2 to 4 walls (and a good sub with any soundbar) the soundstage and surround effect the YSP 5100 can provide are far better.
If the content I used it for was 2:1 music I'd get a Panorama. If it's reversed and music is the minority content then I'd recommend the YSP 5100.
Tim
post #17 of 18
Sorry to thread jack but for those of us who are looking to spend closer to $500 which soundbar has the best surround effect, saw the polk 6000 mentioned in the first post and several other reviewers seem to like it. I havent heard any in person, not sure my local best buy has any demos setup. Looking for great sound for a small apartment that wont drive the neighbors crazy thinking sound bar might be the way to go.
post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
This Soundbar has surprised me in its audio abilities since my last post. Playing the Mass Effect 3 Demo there is a part in single player where a huge laser zaps the building where you are in. That sound at almost half vol (40), without a subwoofer, how the sound "impacted" in said case. Just had to throw that out. Can't give a full review as mentioned in till the subwoofer has been set up fully and has been cleared.

Update Edit: Remember that Subwoofer I mentioned...well... I might be reviewing with out it.
-----------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatg View Post

Sorry to thread jack but for those of us who are looking to spend closer to $500 which soundbar has the best surround effect, saw the polk 6000 mentioned in the first post and several other reviewers seem to like it. I havent heard any in person, not sure my local best buy has any demos setup. Looking for great sound for a small apartment that wont drive the neighbors crazy thinking sound bar might be the way to go.

Worry not. Its why my thread is named what it is.
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