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Suggestions for Speakers newly finished HT room in basement

post #1 of 36
2/7/12 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
I just finished my basement and got the following setup.

Open Concept basement -
1. HT room - 21'x13' - projector on 13' wall
2. Optoma HD33 projector ~13-14' from screen on ceiling
3. 120" Mustang motorized projection screen - mounted 6" from ceiling on bulkhead.
4. Denon 2112CI receiver
5. prewired for 7.1 surround.
6. PS3 for 3D content/gaming/movies.
7. HD cable box


My budget is not more than $2K for complete speaker solution including a sub. I have been looking @ Energy brand and here's what I came up with.

Surround ( both mid and backs):
Energy Connoisseur Surround Bookshelf Speaker (CR-10)
Energy Connoisseur Bookshelf Speakers (CB-20)
Center
Energy Veritas LCR Speaker (VMINICR)

Front:
Energy Reference Connoisseur 4-Way Tower Speaker (RC-70) - Black - Single

Not sure on Sub 8" or 10".

I am more into audio fidelity and quality of sound - clear, concise and rich. I don't need volume or power as my wife will simply kill me
Excellent Music listening is also something I'd like to have as well. Classical music is something we all enjoy.

Your feedback is most welcome and appreciated.

Thank you,

Mark
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post #2 of 36
2/7/12 at 10:44am
IMHO, you should get a bigger subwoofer.
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post #3 of 36
2/7/12 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

I just finished my basement and got the following setup.

Open Concept basement -
1. HT room - 21'x13' - projector on 13' wall
2. Optoma HD33 projector ~13-14' from screen on ceiling
3. 120" Mustang motorized projection screen - mounted 6" from ceiling on bulkhead.
4. Denon 2112CI receiver
5. prewired for 7.1 surround.
6. PS3 for 3D content/gaming/movies.
7. HD cable box

My budget is not more than $2K for complete speaker solution including a sub. I have been looking @ Energy brand and here's what I came up with.

Surround ( both mid and backs):
Energy Connoisseur Surround Bookshelf Speaker (CR-10)
Energy Connoisseur Bookshelf Speakers (CB-20)
Center
Energy Veritas LCR Speaker (VMINICR)

Front:
Energy Reference Connoisseur 4-Way Tower Speaker (RC-70) - Black - Single

Not sure on Sub 8" or 10".

I am more into audio fidelity and quality of sound - clear, concise and rich. I don't need volume or power as my wife will simply kill me
Excellent Music listening is also something I'd like to have as well. Classical music is something we all enjoy.

Your feedback is most welcome and appreciated.

Thank you,

Mark

This should do you well. I have a pair of the HB-1s and love them, excellent for music and movies. My father has this set up (minus 2 speakers) in a 40x20x20 room and rocks it with no problem. I have the same sub in 25x15x8 room. This is an excellent system, period, but definitely at this price. Read around for reviews.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/enthusiast3.html
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post #4 of 36
2/7/12 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBR View Post

IMHO, you should get a bigger subwoofer.

+1. 12" at a minimum.
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post #5 of 36
2/7/12 at 10:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

+1. 12" at a minimum.

What don't you guys understand? My wife will kill me

I was originally going for a 10", conteplated an 8". Guess I'll have to tell my wife to get seriously good noise cancelling headphones and get the 10".

As for the surround speakers, I can get the CR-10s at the moment for $250 a piece. Should I get all 4 surround as CR-10s or should I mix and match CB-20 for the mid surrounds and put the CR-10s strictly for the rears?

Your help is much appreciated. Thanks for the prompt responses.

Mark
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post #6 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
One last thing....
should I get banana plugs for the receiver/speakers?

for receiver (6 pairs):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

for speakers (6 pairs):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Will those work? I have no clue what the connections are like as my receiver is still in the box

Mark
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post #7 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

What don't you guys understand? My wife will kill me

Nah, she'll appreciate the fact that you bought the right-sized sub for the job.

Quote:


As for the surround speakers, I can get the CR-10s at the moment for $250 a piece.

I see that the CR-10s are $249/pr., and the CB-20s are $199/pr. You should audition them both and go with the ones you prefer.

(My preference would be for the CB-20s, although they would require stands, while the CR-10s would not.)
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post #8 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

One last thing....
should I get banana plugs for the receiver/speakers?

Banana plugs are a "nice to have" convenience feature. IMO, they're worth having. Get plugs, not pins. With thicker wire, the compression type can be a pain to screw together, so I prefer this type.
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post #9 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:12am
Definitely a 12"+ subwoofer from an internet direct company. Since your budget is $2k, I would spend $1k on 7 speakers and $1-$1.2k on dual subs.

FYI, I spent $998 on dual subs and $980 on 7 speakers.
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post #10 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:26am
First of all, you need a sub with a 12-inch woofer and at least 350 watts of power. It's not about volume. You can adjust the subwoofer volume control to suit you and the wee lady. It's about distortion. Smaller woofers do not have the cone size or power to reproduce frequencies below 50 Hz without excessive distortion. This is far more critical with music than movie-booms.

If you don't want to reproduce those frequencies you have no need for any subwoofer at all.

For the money you are going to spend, there are one hell of a lot of speakers that are much better than those Energy speakers (especially for your type of listening!).

I suggest Monitor Audio speakers:

The Bronze BX-5 tower speakers run about $750 per pair. The Bronze BX Center is $300 and will pair perfectly with them. The M1 speakers will be very good for the other four and cost $400 for the four speakers. $1450 total.

(NOTE- there is a company called M-audio that makes a BX-5; DIFFERENT COMPANY!)

To complete the system get the Rythmic FV-12 subwoofer for $500. This is a powerful clean-sounding subwoofer that will give plenty of bass in your room. The only way you would need two subs would be to simulate World War II in your room, and it doesn't sound like you want to go there. It is plenty for music.

This system will be miles ahead of the Energy speakers in sound quality IMO, and the Rythmic subwoofer is also very highly regarded for its price.

The Energy speakers are OK for people who just want to blast movies, but for those of us who care about the sound of music, particularly classical music, they are not what you want to listen to..



Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

I just finished my basement and got the following setup.

Open Concept basement -
1. HT room - 21'x13' - projector on 13' wall
2. Optoma HD33 projector ~13-14' from screen on ceiling
3. 120" Mustang motorized projection screen - mounted 6" from ceiling on bulkhead.
4. Denon 2112CI receiver
5. prewired for 7.1 surround.
6. PS3 for 3D content/gaming/movies.
7. HD cable box

My budget is not more than $2K for complete speaker solution including a sub. I have been looking @ Energy brand and here's what I came up with.
Surround ( both mid and backs):
Energy Connoisseur Surround Bookshelf Speaker (CR-10)
Energy Connoisseur Bookshelf Speakers (CB-20)
Center
Energy Veritas LCR Speaker (VMINICR)
Front:
Energy Reference Connoisseur 4-Way Tower Speaker (RC-70) - Black – Single
Not sure on Sub 8" or 10".
I am more into audio fidelity and quality of sound - clear, concise and rich. I don't need volume or power as my wife will simply kill me
Excellent Music listening is also something I'd like to have as well. Classical music is something we all enjoy.

Your feedback is most welcome and appreciated.

Thank you,

Mark
Reply
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post #11 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Definitely a 12"+ subwoofer from an internet direct company. Since your budget is $2k, I would spend $1k on 7 speakers and $1-$1.2k on dual subs.

FYI, I spent $998 on dual subs and $980 on 7 speakers.

+1. Great recommendation.

As for "needing" at least a 12" woofer and 350 watts.... that's rubbish advice.

Paradigm has a sub with 10" woofers that does 12hz at -3db so.......

A pair of SVS SB12s would do nicely for music and movies. Or Rythmik FV12s or Epik Legends...... they're are quite few options.

For 7 speakers for $1K it might be a little tougher. 5 for now would be easier to find at about $1K.

The HSU recommendation would be a good choice too.
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post #12 of 36
2/7/12 at 11:56am
I got the 7.0 BIC Acoustech Platinum 8" setup with 2 - Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Pluses.
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post #13 of 36
2/7/12 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Banana plugs are a "nice to have" convenience feature. IMO, they're worth having. Get plugs, not pins. With thicker wire, the compression type can be a pain to screw together, so I prefer this type.

Would these plugs fit the speakers or do I need the pins?
I would get all plugs if the speakers will take them.

Mark
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post #14 of 36
2/7/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

Would these plugs fit the speakers or do I need the pins?

As long as the speakers you buy have standard binding posts - and these days, they pretty much all do - plugs will fit them.

-- Edit --
Just looking at a pic of the back of the CR-10s and, with those speakers, pins might be better just in case the "well" the posts are in isn't deep enough to ensure that the plugs+wires won't interfere with wall mounting. For bookshelf speakers, towers and the AVR, I'd go with plugs.
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post #15 of 36
2/7/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Definitely a 12"+ subwoofer from an internet direct company.

+1. Some options include:
- the SVS PB12-NSD ($749), available in Canada through SonicBoomAudio.com;
- the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($549) or, when on sale, the LFM-1 EX (also $549); or
- the Epik Empire ($799).
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post #16 of 36
2/10/12 at 8:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

First of all, you need a sub with a 12-inch woofer and at least 350 watts of power. It's not about volume. You can adjust the subwoofer volume control to suit you and the wee lady. It's about distortion. Smaller woofers do not have the cone size or power to reproduce frequencies below 50 Hz without excessive distortion. This is far more critical with music than movie-booms.

If you don't want to reproduce those frequencies you have no need for any subwoofer at all.

For the money you are going to spend, there are one hell of a lot of speakers that are much better than those Energy speakers (especially for your type of listening!).

I suggest Monitor Audio speakers:

The Bronze BX-5 tower speakers run about $750 per pair. The Bronze BX Center is $300 and will pair perfectly with them. The M1 speakers will be very good for the other four and cost $400 for the four speakers. $1450 total.

(NOTE- there is a company called M-audio that makes a BX-5; DIFFERENT COMPANY!)

To complete the system get the Rythmic FV-12 subwoofer for $500. This is a powerful clean-sounding subwoofer that will give plenty of bass in your room. The only way you would need two subs would be to simulate World War II in your room, and it doesn't sound like you want to go there. It is plenty for music.

This system will be miles ahead of the Energy speakers in sound quality IMO, and the Rythmic subwoofer is also very highly regarded for its price.

The Energy speakers are OK for people who just want to blast movies, but for those of us who care about the sound of music, particularly classical music, they are not what you want to listen to..


Monitor speakers? you have piqued my interest. Now, the problem is that I'm in canada. I wonder if they have a local shop where i can listen and buy them. I'm in Toronto so if anyone knows a local reseller/distributor, I'd love to check them out. If I can get the prices you've quoted and I like the sound, it would be an easy decision.

For the curious ones, I checked out the Energy Bookshelfs vs. the surround ones
Energy Connoisseur Surround Bookshelf Speaker (CR-10)
Energy Connoisseur Bookshelf Speakers (CB-20)

I found the bookshelfs much cleaner sound with a greater range - sound was richer, especially the base. my only concern is the mounting.

Currently, I have the wiring set up for ceiling mount. Would you recommend a level shelf just below the ceiling or down firing mount?
I can always fish the wires to more of a wall mount - but I feel my wife wouldn't like it very much.

Recommendations?

Thanks.
Mark
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post #17 of 36
2/10/12 at 8:58am
Another route you could look at is DIY to extend the cash even further.

GR Research, Madisound, etc. have some amazing value if you do not mind soldering, building/buying cabinets, and turning a few screws.

As for recommendations, I always say a great 3.1 setup will beat a good 7.1 setup if you are looking for incredibly clear dialog or detailed music.

I personally recommend Rythmic subs for their direct servo design. Extremely low distortion.

Also, a note on the GR Research speakers. He has a tour of the bookshelves (N2X sealed design) that could possibly be auditioned in house. Just contact him and see if it is possible, nice guy I still have yet to buy anything from.
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post #18 of 36
2/10/12 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

I found the bookshelfs much cleaner sound with a greater range - sound was richer, especially the base. my only concern is the mounting.

Currently, I have the wiring set up for ceiling mount. Would you recommend a level shelf just below the ceiling or down firing mount?

IMO, if you're wall-mounting the CB-20s...
- up high, use adjustable speaker mounts and angle them down toward the listening position;
- a couple of feet above the listening position, a level shelf would be fine.

Else, you can stand-mount them on either side of the listening position.
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post #19 of 36
2/10/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

What don't you guys understand? My wife will kill me

Will your wife let y'all listen to grand pianos, or only smaller pianos? String bass, or only cellos? Tubas, or only french horns?

Classical music has all sorts of instruments that have lower frequencies that an 8" cone will typically have trouble reproducing at even medium volumes, without distortion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

I was originally going for a 10", conteplated an 8". Guess I'll have to tell my wife to get seriously good noise cancelling headphones and get the 10".

And the generalities about 8" vs 10" and 12" only go so far. There are other factors, like the excursion of the driver and its power handling, the size of the box, and the amount of power driving the woofer.

An 8" driver CAN reproduce low bass of those instruments (because even an ear bud can do that, at some volume), but to reach medium volumes on the dynamic peaks of classical music, the woofer would have to have so much excursion that the lowest sounds it puts out are distorted.

My 10" sub can produce down to 18Hz, but it's in a huge box.

A 12" has enough surface area it doesn't have to move in and out as much, and thus would probably exhibit less distortion, and it can use a smaller box.
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post #20 of 36
2/10/12 at 11:58am
a suggestion i would look into something like the hsu enthusiast 3 package for $1600
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post #21 of 36
2/10/12 at 12:42pm
Why don't you look at Paradigm, too, since you are in Canada? That's a Canadian company that makes great speakers. Maybe I'm wrong, but seems you ought to be able to get as good or better deals on them that we can get here in the US.
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post #22 of 36
2/10/12 at 12:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

a suggestion i would look into something like the hsu enthusiast 3 package for $1600

They sound interesting. Now, anywhere in Toronto area I can see them or possibly buy them?
I would hate to see how much they're going to ding me with taxes and duties if I elect to ship here.

Mark
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post #23 of 36
2/10/12 at 12:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Why don't you look at Paradigm, too, since you are in Canada? That's a Canadian company that makes great speakers. Maybe I'm wrong, but seems you ought to be able to get as good or better deals on them that we can get here in the US.

What's the overall recommendation here?
Which set of Paradigms would be ideal for my requirements & budget?

Obviously, best bang for the buck is my motto.

Thanks in advance.
Mark
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post #24 of 36
2/10/12 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Will your wife let y'all listen to grand pianos, or only smaller pianos? String bass, or only cellos? Tubas, or only french horns?

Classical music has all sorts of instruments that have lower frequencies that an 8" cone will typically have trouble reproducing at even medium volumes, without distortion.



And the generalities about 8" vs 10" and 12" only go so far. There are other factors, like the excursion of the driver and its power handling, the size of the box, and the amount of power driving the woofer.

An 8" driver CAN reproduce low bass of those instruments (because even an ear bud can do that, at some volume), but to reach medium volumes on the dynamic peaks of classical music, the woofer would have to have so much excursion that the lowest sounds it puts out are distorted.

My 10" sub can produce down to 18Hz, but it's in a huge box.

A 12" has enough surface area it doesn't have to move in and out as much, and thus would probably exhibit less distortion, and it can use a smaller box.

Agreed. When it comes to subs, woofer surface/cone area is king. Hell, even a crappy but big sub will sound half way decent.

Which is why I have dual, dual 15" drivers. When we move into our new house, these get doubled...

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post #25 of 36
2/10/12 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

What's the overall recommendation here?
Which set of Paradigms would be ideal for my requirements & budget?

Obviously, best bang for the buck is my motto.

Thanks in advance.
Mark

I think that there are many Paradigm dealers in Canada (use their website to locate one). Just go in and see which ones you like, then come back and ask how they compare to other speakers you might consider
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post #26 of 36
2/10/12 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdweasel View Post

They sound interesting. Now, anywhere in Toronto area I can see them or possibly buy them?
I would hate to see how much they're going to ding me with taxes and duties if I elect to ship here.

Mark

you maybe sol because they are an on line company.it don't cost nothing to call and ask.
by the way i live in niagara falls n.y only an hour drive down q.e.w you could have them sent to my house and pick them up. lol
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post #27 of 36
2/10/12 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post


you maybe sol because they are an on line company.it don't cost nothing to call and ask.
by the way i live in niagara falls n.y only an hour drive down q.e.w you could have them sent to my house and pick them up. lol

Do you mean they're "on line" as in, "they have a website," or "they are internet direct"?

They sell through brick and mortar dealers.
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post #28 of 36
2/10/12 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post


Agreed. When it comes to subs, woofer surface/cone area is king. Hell, even a crappy but big sub will sound half way decent.

Which is why I have dual, dual 15" drivers. When we move into our new house, these get doubled...

I think one of the most confusing and biggest misconceptions in home theater is the exponential aspect of the decibel scale, and reaching the lowest frequencies.

People would be well served if they could easily see that this "stuff" exists, and it's VERY difficult to achieve properly.

Even large and expensive subs compress on the lower frequencies at high levels. And the dynamic peaks are truncated for most peoples speakers.
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post #29 of 36
2/10/12 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Do you mean they're "on line" as in, "they have a website," or "they are internet direct"?

They sell through brick and mortar dealers.

they do have a web site and they are internet direct and they do not have dealers
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post #30 of 36
2/10/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

they do have a web site and they are internet direct and they do not have dealers

Sorry, I thought one of us was going insane here. I had been reading on my phone and thought Mark's and your comment was about Paradigm. But I see it's about Hsu.
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