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turntable quirks

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
So I'm pretty new to the vinyl world as I just got my TT a couple weeks ago but there's a couple things I've noticed that drive me a little nuts. First I'll let you know it's the Denon DP-300F. I'm using the stock cartridge for now just to make sure I'm enjoying vinyl before I sink some more money into it.

The issues:

Firstly whenever it gets to the last 1/4 or so of the record there seems to be a lot of distortion introduced. This happens on ALL of the records I have. I've compared a few of them to CD's and have confirmed that it is the turntable that seems to be creating it. Any ideas what's causing this? Or how to fix it?

The second issue is that when the records are playing I can plainly hear the treble from the TT itself. It's obviously a lot more apparent when the dust cover is up. I've read a bit on this online but there doesn't seem to be a fix for it other than to replace the cartridge.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
post #2 of 14
1) check weight, balance and antiskating settings.
2) treble and dust cover is a new one on me... but, leave the dust cover down.

Question:
New or used turntable/cartridge?
How old?
What make/model cartridge is currently in use?
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the speedy response.

It's the stock Denon cartridge, so I'm unsure on the model. The turntable was brand new. They recommended 2 gram, and I've played a little with the antiskating with no positive results.

The treble I hear is mostly symbols. This is a youtube video I just made for it. The AVR is turned off at the moment to show you what I mean.

youtu.be/kvnHOMOI3Fc

You'l have to copy and paste as I don't have three posts yet.
post #4 of 14
New or second-hand records?

I am experiencing a similar problem, which I think is grime building up on the stylus as it makes its way across the record.
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Both.
post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

1) check weight, balance and antiskating settings.

Yes. And also check cartridge alignment.

Since the arm swings in an arc, it is only perfectly parallel to the grove at two places on the LP with a correctly aligned cartridge. But if it parallel at the beginning of the LP, it will be far from parallel at the end. This might be the cause of the distortion.

Google for an alignment protractor. I know that vinylengine.com has them for download. At least then you can check the alignment.
post #7 of 14
Quote:


Firstly whenever it gets to the last 1/4 or so of the record there seems to be a lot of distortion introduced. This happens on ALL of the records I have. I've compared a few of them to CD's and have confirmed that it is the turntable that seems to be creating it. Any ideas what's causing this? Or how to fix it?

Inner Groove Distortion. Pretty much unavoidable. It's just geometry. Basically, in (roughly) 2 seconds, the outermost groove travels about 3 feet, while the innermost groove travels maybe 15 inches. (I haven't done the precise math.) Any given note just has a lot less vinyl real estate devoted to it in the inner groove. Hence the distortion. It's the same thing with analog tape. The faster the tape travels, the lower the distortion.

Quote:


The second issue is that when the records are playing I can plainly hear the treble from the TT itself. It's obviously a lot more apparent when the dust cover is up. I've read a bit on this online but there doesn't seem to be a fix for it other than to replace the cartridge.

Welcome to the world of analog. This is just physics. The needle's vibrating in the groove, and things that vibrate make sounds. The solution to this problem is simple: Don't turn the AVR off! You won't hear the turntable from your listening position.
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

welcome to the world of analog

+1

hearing the sounds at the needle is unavoidable, just keep the dust cover down.
post #9 of 14
Distortion on the inner tracks is a problem that is usually caused by bad anti-skate (does not properly compensate for the centripetal force) and/or cartridge misalignment.
I also had a very bad case of inner groove distortion with the cheap turntables I used in the past. I thought it was an unfortunate fact of life. That changed dramatically when I upgraded to a better turntable which had anti-skating compensation mechanism and where I actually put some effort to properly align the cartridge. All that distortion is as good as gone now.
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

The solution to this problem is simple: Don't turn the AVR off! You won't hear the turntable from your listening position.

There's a lot of good learning going on here. The only problem, as it sits right now this little set up doubles as my computer set up. Because of this I sit within arms length of the TT, AVR, and the speakers.

I just pulled up a DB meter on the iphone and I can still hear the needle when listening to roughly 85 db music. The delay from the needle -> AVR -> speakers doesnt help either. I can clearly hear the needle well before the speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ditcho View Post

Distortion on the inner tracks is a problem that is usually caused by bad anti-skate (does not properly compensate for the centripetal force) and/or cartridge misalignment.
I also had a very bad case of inner groove distortion with the cheap turntables I used in the past. I thought it was an unfortunate fact of life. That changed dramatically when I upgraded to a better turntable which had anti-skating compensation mechanism and where I actually put some effort to properly align the cartridge. All that distortion is as good as gone now.


Now that I listen for it, I'm noticing the distortion at around half way through the record. I haven't tried touching the cartridge alignment and I'm somewhat scared to.
post #11 of 14
Quote:


There's a lot of good learning going on here. The only problem, as it sits right now this little set up doubles as my computer set up. Because of this I sit within arms length of the TT, AVR, and the speakers.

I just pulled up a DB meter on the iphone and I can still hear the needle when listening to roughly 85 db music. The delay from the needle -> AVR -> speakers doesnt help either. I can clearly hear the needle well before the speakers.

In that case, the only real solution is to move the turntable further away from you. Sorry.

Quote:


Now that I listen for it, I'm noticing the distortion at around half way through the record. I haven't tried touching the cartridge alignment and I'm somewhat scared to.

Check the cartridge alignment before you touch it. I presume you bought a turntable with the cart pre-installed. It's probably just fine, but you never know. And even if you have to realign the cart, it won't completely solve the inner groove distortion problem. Geometry, remember.
post #12 of 14
Buy a new cartridge and make sure it is aligned properly with a protractor. Assuming all the records you've played aren't damaged, the distortion should be greatly minimized.

B.
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Buy a new cartridge and make sure it is aligned properly with a protractor. Assuming all the records you've played aren't damaged, the distortion should be greatly minimized.

B.

Yeah, you might want to look into putting something like a Shure M97xE cartridge on it. You can probably find it for around $55 if you shop around and watch for internet deals. It's a very decent and good bang-for-your-buck cart for an entry-level TT and it tracks well. It also comes with its own very nice cardboard protractor and instructions on how to align it at the two points on the platter when you are setting it within the TT's arm's headshell. It sounds harder than it is. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes after you figure out what you're doing. Put an old record you don't mind scratching and a paper sleeve over it on the TT platter when you are twisting the cartridge in the headshell and matching it to the points on the protractor (during cartridge alignment).

For more detailed instructions, go yourself over to vinylengine and look there. There are loads of enthusiasts and some very good experience and advice. Look especially for posts made by a guy named Alex. He's always cheerful and helpful, and knows his stuff.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasted911 View Post

I just pulled up a DB meter on the iphone and I can still hear the needle when listening to roughly 85 db music. The delay from the needle -> AVR -> speakers doesnt help either. I can clearly hear the needle well before the speakers.

If you can "hear" the stylus (friction on the record), above the music (at 85dB), that's nasty.

Are you sure that the tonearm is balanced properly? Sounds like you have too much weight.
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