How Good Is the New AntiMode Dual Core EQ? - Page 2

I tried to get an answer to my question at the Audyssey thread. I guess in online communication, 90% of the content is lost. So I would have to make back and forth postings until I get my question through to the other person. Sometimes is gets very tiresome and I just leave :-)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21634252

At Home Theater Shack, the creator of the REW software, who strongly counsels the use of REW with a BFD parametric EQ, as an inexpensive and effective way to EQ subs, reviewed the 8033 and reached, IIRC, about 90% of what he could with REW + BFD. He did it in ten minutes from opening the box. BFD/REW would take him, by his own statement, several hours to equal--and more time to improve upon--the 8033 results. And he's an expert.

I chose the 10 minute option.

Having the 8033 let me have an EQ for my sub for 10 months before getting my new AVR. It also allowed me to choose a less expensive AVR, knowing that my sub was taken care of. From what I've read (a lot) and what I've heard, I would need Anthem's ARC or XT32 to do better for my sub. The former (MRX) lacked other features I wanted and the latter was out of my price range.

I don't think the new Anti-mode will seriously dent sales of mainstream AVRs with Audyssey or other systems. I do think it offers an interesting product for certain setups (like my living room--someday) and I'm glad to see it come to market. If it works as well as my 8033 in a broader capacity, it'll be a winner.

I too prefer the 10 mins option. I did try the BFD 1124P and FBQ2496. I also bought the DEQ2496 later as it has a 31band digital EQ in addition to a 10 band PEQ. I was uisng the DEQ2496 mainly to lower the mid range of the mains and used the Antimode 8033 for the sub. Now I am using the Audyssey on Denon 3310 to use the main and the sub (on top of the 8033) but this is only for movies. I dont like a flat response for music. So the option to tweak the correction in Antimode 8033 is attractive. I dont need to spend a lot of money on top of XT32 to get the pro option.

The price on the Denon 4311 is very tempting. But if I cant EQ the mains below 40Hz then I am not going to bother with XT32.

I want to get the 8033s! This dual core one is temping to me but I think I'd rather upgrade to either a 3312 or 4311 (need preouts for future upgrades). What's the best price you guys have gotten for a 8033s

Check the AVS classified section - there's an 8033 for sale at a very reasonable price.

is the s really worth the extra cost? I do like the soft poweron/off

I don't think so - unless you are making frequent changes to your setup, you only have to run your sweeps once, and then you are good to go. I think the price on this unit is a great value.

I have no issues if the price isn't a concern with you, I was just stating that the $1200 reg price seems steep for what you get, IMO. I too dislike how the current crop of AVRs set cross overs. No ability to EQ below the xover Audyssey deems the -3db point of your speaker in your room is (i.e., even if the Denon does allow you to set an xover all the way down to 40hz, if Audyssey only EQ's say down to a FR above 40hz, you're screwed in any event), and no ability to mix x-overs if you wanted to say use your mains down to 40hz and your subs in conjunction up to some different low pass, higher than 40hz.

What mains do you have btw that are clean below 40hz? Or do you simply not listen to music anywhere near reference most of the time so aren't concerned if your speakers can't necessarily get close to reference levels at 40hz without distorting?

I leave mine on all the time. No fuss, no muss. The stereo one does have EQ for higher up the frequency band than the mono model (somewhere into the 200s, I think, while the mono one EQs up to 144hz or so), so if that's a need/concern, it is worth going for that model. It also has a few other configurations not available on the basic model, IIRC, but I had no need for them.

I have the Klipsch KG4.5's and KG5.2's. Yep I dont listen at reference level at all. My listening level is much much lower than reference level. May be 70-75 for music and at the most 80 for movies.

Looks like the new Antimode may be a better value than the XT32! I dont like Audyssey for the main reason that a lot of things are not revealed to the user and the user has to pay for the additional pro kit to get the extra features. Antimode gives them all for a lower price if you factor in the cost of the pro kit. Besides it is not likely that the $1299 sale price for the Denon 4311 would last for ever.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post21636863

xx09 Onkyos do allow the option to choose between the Audyssey reference and flat curve, albeit with different names.

Movie=reference
Music=flat

How about the issue in post #43. I guess that is a problem in general with all Audyssey implementations and that is the main reason to move to the new Antimode.

I'm curious, when you run Audyssey currently, where does your receiver end up setting your mains at from a cross over perspective? Or do they set them as large with no crossover?

Nevermind, just read the link. If your speakers are being set as Full Range/Large after you are running Audyssey, then Audyssey is EQ'ing your speakers all the way down to their -3db point.

So if you want to use your speakers "full range" for music listening, you already are with Audyssey engaged. Your choice as to whether you want to turn off the sub.

I don't know what sub you have, but if it's more capable than your Klipsch's are below 60hz or so (and it should be, else it really isn't a subwoofer or you've got one that likely won't help your already relatively potent speakers), for movie watching at levels above say -15 to reference, change the speakers to small and add a 60hz or 80hz cross-over.

I'm somewhat confused as to what you're trying to get at in your other thread. Everyone is telling you if your speakers are being set to Large, then Audyssey is determining what your -3db point in room is of your mains, and applying EQ all the way to that point. You DON'T want it trying to correct below the -3db point that it calculates in your room irrespective of what the manufacturer claims their speakers are in an anechoic chamber which is usually i) exaggerated at best and ii) relatively useless since once you put them in room the game changes. You run the risk of damaging your speakers by doing so.

In essense Audyssey it's doing what you want it to do. It's just not telling you what the -3db point is since it's setting the speakers to Large or allowing you to change that -3db point. Heck, if you want to do that, put the 2 speakers closer to the corners, that will lower your -3db point a bit though it might cause other issues.

If you want to spend $800/$1200 on the Anti-mode for this reason only, go ahead. But as far as I can tell, you're going to have the same issue. It also isn't going to "tell you" what the -3db point is which it will also EQ down to and no lower.

It will give you a low resolution graph that will likely be difficult to read. But you could do the same with a $50 SPL meter and REW free software.

If you felt the Anti-mode would do a better job at EQ'ing than Audyssey, that's a different story all together.

IMO, the Anti-mode dual core seems to be geared to 2 subwoofer systems where the subs are not placed symetrically from the LP and therefore require significantly different adjustments to each sub, or for 2 channel systems which utilize a processor that does not have its own version of EQ for the main 2 channels.

Having said that, again, if the $800-$1200 isn't an issue, by all means, buy it and report back on which device you prefer for your two channel listening. Note, however, that you'll probably have to turn Audyssey "off" when listening in two channel mode (unless the Denon has some sort of pure direct?) otherwise you'll be doubling up on the EQ. Which may or may not be a good thing.

Actually, I'm not even sure how you'd incorporate a dual core for just your main 2 channels the more I think about it. Will you turn off the dual core entirely when listening to anything but 2 channel? Or just run the dual core on your mains after applying Audyssey? If you're planning on leaving the sub on for your music listening, that makes things even more difficult.

Antimode also is not going to tell me what the -3db point is that it measured but I can at least select my range based on the specs of the speaker. I can also play with the range a bit and also use a SPL meter to get some quick measurements just at the low end to confirm. They do claim that it can be used for a pair of full-range speakers.

"In addition of being able to correct a pair of full-range speakers (or a dual-subwoofer system) in an acoustically challenging environment, it offers a wide variety of adjustments for the overall sound"

True, you'd then be relying on the accuracy of the published spec of the speaker versus the actual measured spec in your room by a fairly sophisticated piece of software which was specifically designed to do just that.

Without REW, finding the "-3db" point of your speaker will be challenging at best. Actually, even with REW it will be challenging. I.e., what if you run a db sweep at 70db, and the -3db is 36hz (I think that was the published spec of your nice 5.4s), but if you run it at 90db, it's 45hz?

Anyhow, I think you may be chasing something that the Antimode won't really help you with since Audyssey is already doing it for you, except the issue appears to be that a) you can't control how low the software EQ's your mains and b) you don't know what that is as Audyssey won't tell you (would be cool if the AVR incorpoated some sort of "exact -3db point as per what Audyssey says" sort of display!).

How would you use the Antimode Dual Core on your mains in conjunction with your Denon is the most difficult thing to figure out IMO.

If you want to listen to 2CH music with your mains EQ'd, I think you'll have to turn the Antimode on when listening in some sort of Pure Direct mode and turn off Audyssey in the receiver.

If you want to listen to music in 5.1 or 7.1, or movies, turn off the Antimode and only use Audyssey I guess.

If you want to listen to music in 2.1 with your mains EQ'd by the Dual Core and subwoofer also EQ'd by Audyssey, that's where things get a bit more confusing.

Acording to the Q&A paper posted on DSpeaker website on the dual core http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/da...ualcorefaq.pdf, you can do independent channels with it. So you could use it to calibrate the mains in each channel & then run Audyssey or whatever your flavor is. However as I see it, would be to use it with two or more subwoofers as you can set a house curve with the units remote and show the readoout on the front lcd screen.

I don't know if I'll end up using it for my two subs or front speakers only but i did pre-order the dual core earlier today! I really hate playing the waiting game though - gimme my new toy now!

Received my unit today 4/26!

Dual Core should ship this week.

Got my Anti Mode Dual Core yesterday and set it up with my 3 Submersives. Once I got it dialed in, Holy Crap! Is it worth the $$$$, should be a few hundred cheaper but I'm Ok as I got in on the early buy. It set a nice flat freg across the board and then I tweaked it and added a house curve from 15 to 50 hz. It is simple to set on the screen on the front of the unit and just click the lift bar and it does it all for you. Menu driven with not alot of brain work. Got back that nasty intense bass that we all love instead of the boring flat. It is a keeper. Hope some of the HT mag guys get one to test and write about. Overall, this is tyhe best that my system has ever sounded and my normal listening volume on the dial is -10. If I go down to -6 or -4, it does get louder but with no distortion whatsoever. This is in a untreated open room.

About an hour ago I plugged in my dual core and ran the calibration - i'm still a little queasy...

I'll get to it in a bit

Very easy setup; single rca cable from my Onkyo receiver to the dual core and from it, two rca cables to my two SVS SB13-plus subwoofers. Language selection->calibration, select 2 subs mono mode brings you to the level adjustment screen. With the dual core calibration volume/level set to max, the "level ok" label flickered on and off so I raised the volume on the subs 6 db and as expected I got "level ok" at a bit lower level. So, I hit the ok button

What happens next is a little foggy but i'm sure I sat on the floor next to a subwoofer amazed at the staggering pressure the subs did to my room! When the calibration started to cycle left and right sub very smoothly I felt motion sickness kick in. No, i'm totally serious and as far as I know not at all "sensitive" to bass or high volume. This was just way more intense than the cinema ever have been in my experience. Since I've never been even close to that kind of output from my subs before, it's good to know what they really are capable of.
Anyway, I think a bit of a waring to people living in apartments is in order; it's loud and in my case lasted somewhere around 5 min, possibly 6-7 min.

Oh, calibration is a series of slow going low to high freq. sweeps - I think I counted 6 sweeps in all, aprox 1 min each.

I haven't really listened to the system after setup - I just ran a quick 3 point audyssey calibration with the Onkyo and reset the crossover from 40 to 80 Hz on my front and center speaker. As soon as my head and ears clear up a bit i'll have a proper listening session.

I attached a picture of the calibration results, you should see it below if all went well.


Oh, yeah.. the missus ran out of the apartment during the fist sweep giving me the evil eye as she went. When she came back she told me i'm crazy and that she expects at least a few complaints coming in to our landlord With luck it's possible to export the calibration file and re-load it should a firmware upgrade, lightning or other reset the unit, and require a new calibration. I really don't want to do it again in a apartment.

 

 

edit:

 

I just wanted to mention I will re-calibrate at a lower volume setting during this summer. I think the curve will look a lot smoother If I can tune in a volume level just below the point where everything in my apartment shake 'n rattle like crazy.

Some time and energy to determine a better location for one or both subs would be great (~60Hz dip). Also, I'll do the calibration in 0-120Hz range rather than full range (I found the range selection in the calibration\advanced menu). I'm planning to upgrade my onk 5007 receiver to a 2012 model as well (looking forward to have a go at XT32!).

Edited by trallala - 6/14/12 at 1:22pm

Hard to imagine someone with two subs like that in an apartment at all. Sounds promising, look forward to your further review...

I've sent a request to DSPeaker asking for specific remote codes for Power on, Power Off + some volume settings. I will post them as soon as i get them - if there are any that is. I sure hope so as toggle commands isn't that good when using a Logitech Harmony or other brand of multi remote.

Got a reply from DSPeaker; unfortunately, there aren't any other codes already programmed into the dual core. Adding specific remote codes in the next firmware version (small changes such as more languages) is "fairly high priority".
Sounds good enough to me. I have no problems waiting a bit for it because the volume control is very responsive and it works very well having volume up/down bound to the upper arrow up/down keys on my Logitech 900.



Well, they are pretty small compared to other subs, ported ones in particular. It's not totally over the top is it?
I probably don't need the headroom/increased output but I figured having two and manage to get some sort of overlapping of each others weak ranges would make it worth the loss of floor space.

I wasn't thinking of the size of your place or the subs...but rather the thinly insulated walls/floors/ceilings that have accompanied the apartments I'm used to...maybe your apartment is different.

With Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core you have the option to perform an actual measurement and see what the in-room response is like.

Anti Mode Dual Core pings each channel seperatly (2 channel) and you can group like subs together in each channel. You can setup 4 different presets and different calibration curves within each preset (house curve lift of +3, +6, +9 db or across the boad lift with the same incerments from 15 hz on out to the end). Also has volume control for each preset. It doesn't lend flatness across the board into the other channels and the SQ is excellent. I have used SMS-1, Audyssey Pro, Audysssey Sub EQ, AS EQ-1, and the standard Anti Mode 8033S and found the Anti Mode Dual Core to be the best for me and my room with 3 Submersives.

You *need* to get a measurement system so you can post some measurements. I would love to be able to "see" the differences.

Craig