Need advice on new ~$1.5-3k receiver or preamp/pro that can compete with Oppo BDP-95

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

I have also read that while performance out of the Oppo BDP-95's non-sw channels have excellent (best-in-class) performance, that the performance from the BDP-95's handling of the SW channel is severely lacking in depth, detail, and level, even if properly calibrated.

For example, I have read somewhere that a Marantz AV7005 was decent with music (not sure how good), but that the corresponding pre-pro from Onkyo/Integra was excellent with HT but was severely lacking with music.

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

When I'm talking about the Oppo BDP-95's bass, I'm talking solely about using it's 7.1 (or 5.1 in my case) analog out to a receiver or pre/pro's discrete multichannel input. In that case, bass management is performed in the Oppo and not the pre/pro. Using HDMI out from Oppo is fine or using analog out for large stereo speakers is probably fine. I'm talking about using the Oppo's analog out and internal bass management, where the Oppo transmits the analog line level out of the SW at -15dB compared to 0dB of the other 5-7 channels.

I think you can adjust +-10dB on the outlet of the Oppo (I'm not certain), so the only thing I can possibly think of is setting all other speakers to -10dB and setting the SW out to +5dB on the Oppo and just raising the volume more on the Yamaha. Can that be done? Would it work, and if so, would lowering the non-SW channels by 10dB reduce sound quality/increase noise floor (i.e. defeat the purpose of buying the player)?

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

I was so excited about my next upgrade, an Oppo BDP-95. I have read all the reviews of how great the DAC and analog output section is and was prepared to pull the trigger and settle into sonic (and video) bliss. It seemed to be the most cost-effective upgrade for my system. That is, until I "luckily" realized that an Oppo BDP-95 would cause a ton of frustration and headaches for my system.

Why? #1: Bass Management #2: My system pre/pro is an 8-year old Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver (that does have a dedicated 7 ch discrete analog input but DOES NOT apply a 10dB LFE correction and DOES NOT give the option of adjusting LFE levels for individual sources (i.e. crank up the level on the actual sub and lower the speaker levels for digital sources). So, the Oppo BDP-95 is nothing but a pipe dream that cannot be used in my very obsolete system at this time. I have a 5.1 satellite/sub system, so I have to use bass management. I have also read that while performance out of the Oppo BDP-95's non-sw channels have excellent (best-in-class) performance, that the performance from the BDP-95's handling of the SW channel is severely lacking in depth, detail, and level, even if properly calibrated. I'm thinking a fully loaded BMW X-5 with 4WD but fitted with bald tires and trying to run in the snow!!

What I'm looking for: A good quality receiver or separate dedicated pre/pro that performs all the latest surround formats well, but that specifically sounds good for music (most of my full and high rez music will be listened to in 2.1 mode).

Unfortunately, I've heard that almost all receivers have progressively sacrificed amps/pre-amp/analog stage, power supply performance over the years to cram in tons of features and formats. I'm willing to spend up to $3k (range of $1.5-$3k) for either a well-built high quality receiver or separate pre-pro that is also a noticeable sound quality upgrade in the DAC, analog output/pre-amp as compared to the Yamaha RX-V2400. I would like something as close as possible to the performance of the BDP-95. If the performance is not noticeably better than RX-V2400 (wrt to DAC, analog output to amp for 2.1 music), then it is a waste of money for me.

For example, I have read somewhere that a Marantz AV7005 was decent with music (not sure how good), but that the corresponding pre-pro from Onkyo/Integra was excellent with HT but was severely lacking with music. The most I could afford would be something at the price of the NAD T187 but have no idea how that performs with music (DACs, analog output stage, etc.) or what other musical alternatives are.

If the Marantz is so good, I would consider a Marantz + Oppo 95, but my understanding is the Oppo 95 really shines if used in dedicated 2 ch playback with large full range speakers. I have read that bass played through it's SW output is lacking in many ways, which is very disappointing, given how highly reviewed that player was.

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

When I'm talking about the Oppo BDP-95's bass, I'm talking solely about using it's 7.1 (or 5.1 in my case) analog out to a receiver or pre/pro's discrete multichannel input. In that case, bass management is performed in the Oppo and not the pre/pro. Using HDMI out from Oppo is fine or using analog out for large stereo speakers is probably fine. I'm talking about using the Oppo's analog out and internal bass management, where the Oppo transmits the analog line level out of the SW at -15dB compared to 0dB of the other 5-7 channels.

I think you can adjust +-10dB on the outlet of the Oppo (I'm not certain), so the only thing I can possibly think of is setting all other speakers to -10dB and setting the SW out to +5dB on the Oppo and just raising the volume more on the Yamaha. Can that be done? Would it work, and if so, would lowering the non-SW channels by 10dB reduce sound quality/increase noise floor (i.e. defeat the purpose of buying the player)?

Originally Posted by gurkey

The problem with those "I heard..." stories is, that they are very subjective and usually based on "rumours", sometimes unfounded somtimes true, but often slanted or false.

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

What I'm mostly referring to is the way the analog SW signal is handled by receivers from the discrete input. LFE is recorded as -10dB compared to the other channels (I have read that is industry standard), and the pre/pro/receiver, whatever is supposed to apply the +10dB correction.

Using the analog out of the Oppo should be fine with a NEWER receiver that applies the +10dB correction on the SW discrete input. My 2004 vintage Yamaha RX-V2400 DOES NOT apply the +10dB correction. So the Oppo (or any blu-ray player with multichannel outs) would have the -10dB attenuation, and the receiver pre/pro should boost the signal by +10dB to the sub.

So, if you're pairing the Oppo's multichannel outs to a NEWER receiver that properly applies the correction, then it'll sound fine. My older receiver does not do this. I believe this was commonly referred to as the "LFE bug" several years ago, when most receivers didn't apply this correction.

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

What I'm mostly referring to is the way the analog SW signal is handled by receivers from the discrete input. LFE is recorded as -10dB compared to the other channels (I have read that is industry standard), and the pre/pro/receiver, whatever is supposed to apply the +10dB correction.

Using the analog out of the Oppo should be fine with a NEWER receiver that applies the +10dB correction on the SW discrete input. My 2004 vintage Yamaha RX-V2400 DOES NOT apply the +10dB correction. So the Oppo (or any blu-ray player with multichannel outs) would have the -10dB attenuation, and the receiver pre/pro should boost the signal by +10dB to the sub.

So, if you're pairing the Oppo's multichannel outs to a NEWER receiver that properly applies the correction, then it'll sound fine. My older receiver does not do this. I believe this was commonly referred to as the "LFE bug" several years ago, when most receivers didn't apply this correction.

Originally Posted by xirtam2005

In any case, how is the analog bass quality using the Oppo when calibrated properly? Is it good, tight bass? I've read that the Oppo's crossover is not as steep as most receivers with THX certification (such as the Yamaha), so I'm not sure how that will affect things.

If I can get the Oppo to work, this would be much cheaper than getting a new AVR with likely (hopefully) better sonic results.