At what point do you consider a processor/receiver/preamp not worth it?

hey guys, I asked this over at lencoheaven.net as well but wanted to ask it in a more focused environment as well.

First, I am not looking to buy i just thought it would be a fun/interesting conversation to have because of the law of deminishing returns and where people see areas that are more worth their hard earned cash.

Processors:
I have to say the biggest reason I am interested in this, however, is because I love the looks and build quality of McIntosh and everything I know about them is top notch. It is just if you want to spend the money on one is the question.

However, even with their new processor it does not support 3d and some other new feature that you can get with the $1600 Marantz processor.

Then you can consider the NAD M15 or the T185(or is it 175) that is modular so that you can always just get a new module and it will be up to date....sound quality and picture quality wise....not sure if they are going to add internet radio and the such to it. But regardless the modular construction makes it more worth the money.

Preamps:
Now with preamps I can see spending more money here than I can on a surround processor as that technology is not changing very much. I actually want to try and find an old Thorens, garrard, lenco, or some other old TT to restore myself rather than spend tons of money on a new TT where the technology hasnt changed very much anyways.

In this department you could get a fairly priced conrad-johnson classic for something in the ball park of $1500 off the top of my head and it gets great reviews....you could also spend $10,000 on their top of the line preamp....or there are the mcintosh and other high end choices.

There are also the bottlehead preamp kits that you can get

They are all good choices it is just where you want to spend your money.

For instance I am a big DIY guy. I am personally more inclined to go the bottlehead route....but will I get as good of results as I would with the conrad-johnson? I may get better and the great thing is that if something breaks....i can fix it! however, there is no such thing as a DIY processor.


I currently have a yamaha rx-v867 AVR and I like it....but it could honestly be better. Most of the time the sound stage is very seperated and no matter how much I play with the positioning of my speakers I cant get rid of it and then for some reason the bass is a little weird in my system. the YPAO wanted to make it almost nonexistant so I turned it up manually but there are sometimes in a movie where it is too loud and other times it is too soft....when i know it shouldnt be....therefore I know there is something better out there....in any price range.

however, I would like to know how much you all are willing to spend in different areas of your audio system and why. Why is it worth that to you? What differences did you notice? How much better is the build quality?

I hope we can discuss this without getting into any kind of flame war and talk in a mature manner bout the merrits of each different approach to audio reproduction.

Tulpa, you make a great point that I never thought about before. Hdmi into the TV and then go audio out of tv to a higher end processor. I have dont that before with other work around such as appletv to tv and then optical out of tv to an older denon for my father in law....

I guess it just didnt "click"

with the mention of the DA-AD that bring up something else that is interesting. Instead of going that route with a processor how would it fair against just a analog bottlehead preamp? I have never heard the different myself but I have read that it can make quite an impact.

I have not looked at those card prices actually as I had no idea where to look. I just thought it was a better value than the McIntosh considering the fact that instead of buying an entirely new unit in say 5-10 years you would only have to replace a card or two....just another option I felt like mentioning to get the conversation started really.

The NAD obviously has alot of limits though, the lower priced Marantz processor can also access your home network to play music without having to connect your ipod.....something that is huge to me considering I am an ultra nerd....however, if I build a HTPC I can have that same ability there rather than in the processor....and i wonder how long there will support it before they have to upgrade the "motherboard".....not really sure what else to call it.

completely agree with the statement about speakers and amps. However, once you have speakers that you are happy with then you may not be changing them very often. I am not sure about the home theater processors but the preamps for music and the kind of turntable certainly make a difference in sound quality.

I am sure that the higher end processors sound better to a degree and they would have to have a better quality of construction to be worth the investment. But if you are not willing to spend 12k on say the MX150 would you be more inclined to spend 6k on the Anthem AVM 50?

i will admit it could have been the difference in the way the guy had them set up but I head a rotel, yamaha, and anthem next to each other.....the yamaha is the one I bought cause it is the one I could afford. The rotel didnt have the auto room correct but the guy showed me how much better he could set it up manually and then the anthem had the ARC. The best of them was the anthem and alot of that could have been that the auto correct in the yamaha is lacking....and rotel has none....but the rotel sounded best next to the anthem.

So I am not trying to say that just cause something is more expensive makes it better.....it just happens that the way things were set up when I listened to them made that impression.....could have been his sales pitch too....but at 24 i doubt he would have believed I could afford something like a rotel or anthem.

gagne, i agree that the denon looks like better construction inside. however, is the denon a receiver or processor?

I should also add that I still have yet to see any comment that made me say it would be worth the money to get an anthem over a marantz or denon or vice versa.....right now I still just see it as what you are willing to spend.

Haha. Yes I know. I guess there is the fact that the more expensive ones may have better build quality and therefore last longer. But by the time they burn out you are goin to need a new one most likely anyways.....I may have talked my father-in-law into a marantz av7005 today. He is running adcom amps and a 15 year old Denton receiver so I'm interested to see what kind of difference it will make.

To be honest, even though emotiva does make good amps....with how many bugs the previous processor had I wouldnt consider it too much. I really like Anthem's AVM 50v and their receivers. I plan to build some amps of my own based off the designs on Passdiy.com

most of the designs are only 100w from what I know but I figured I could combine two in monoblocks for the mains and then just do 100w for the center and surrounds....most of the dynamic parts are through the mains anyways so I figure Id focus the power there.

Orderend a TX-NR809 for my father in law today, amazon had a sale on that he couldnt pass up so I placed the order for him and he is going to pay me back.