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When wiil HBO Go actually get Dolby plus

post #1 of 94
Thread Starter 
Anyone know?

Thx
post #2 of 94
I've asked HBO and they have not provided any dates yet. Hopefully it will be enabled by the time Game of Thrones season 2 starts up.
post #3 of 94
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

I've asked HBO and they have not provided any dates yet. Hopefully it will be enabled by the time Game of Thrones season 2 starts up.

Ok. Thx.
post #4 of 94
I think that's not so important to them. How many clients have Dolby Plus surround decoders?

A HDTV does not qualify as a "surround" source. There are available only a few receivers that have that capability.
post #5 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

I think that's not so important to them. How many clients have Dolby Plus surround decoders?

DD+ can be converted to DD 640 kbps by the DD+ capable device, so the downstream AVR does not need to handle DD+ itself.
post #6 of 94
Quote:


I think that's not so important to them. How many clients have Dolby Plus surround decoders?

A HDTV does not qualify as a "surround" source. There are available only a few receivers that have that capability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

DD+ can be converted to DD 640 kbps by the DD+ capable device, so the downstream AVR does not need to handle DD+ itself.

Most new A/V receivers sold today can handle Dolby Digital Plus, the list is much longer than what's on the Dolby site. However, the real question is which devices will HBO make it available on. The only real HBO Go app on a connected device is the Roku right now. We're still waiting on the Xbox and Samsung versions to be released. Other devices use a web based browser app (i.e. Boxee) so I don't know if they are going to get the surround sound upgrade. If memory serves, it is technically possible to get surround sound in the latest version of Flash video.
post #7 of 94
Update! Dolby Digital Plus is available on the new HBO GO app for Samsung Smart TVs. This means that HBO has the content encoded with DD+. In theory, the Roku should only need a software update to the HBO GO app. So, hopefully it's not too far off and we'll have for season 2 of Game of Thrones. More info on the TOH blog.
post #8 of 94
It would be nice if they actually broadcast programming encoded with DD+. Too bad they can't do that.
post #9 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

DD+ can be converted to DD 640 kbps by the DD+ capable device, so the downstream AVR does not need to handle DD+ itself.

Actually is not "conversion" is just back-compatibility - lower quality DD is "separate" from the extra HD audio part.
So.. why bother to use DD+ tru a DD receiver? Quality won't be different from straight DD, even at 448 kbps (DVD rate).
post #10 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

Actually is not "conversion" is just back-compatibility - lower quality DD is "separate" from the extra HD audio part.

Since I worked on this project at Dolby, I can assure you it is conversion. The DD+ bitstream can be repackaged on the fly to conform to DD requirements, and whatever quality is defined by the DD+ stream will be retained in the DD output, up to DD's limit of 640 kbps. That quality level is unlikely to be reached by anything streamed or broadcast in DD+, however. So while it is not pushing the boundaries of sonic performance, at least the DD converted output will not compromise the results.

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So.. why bother to use DD+ tru a DD receiver? Quality won't be different from straight DD, even at 448 kbps (DVD rate).

The reason to use DD+ is to save transmission bitrate. There is no particular advantage once it hits the AVR until or unless the DD+ steps beyond the capabilities of DD, for example by using much higher bitrates (like 1.0 Mbps) or 7.1 channel programs.
post #11 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The reason to use DD+ is to save transmission bitrate. There is no particular advantage once it hits the AVR until or unless the DD+ steps beyond the capabilities of DD, for example by using much higher bitrates (like 1.0 Mbps) or 7.1 channel programs.

So the 384 Kbps DD+ Netflix uses should be roughly equivalent to basic DD at what bit rate? It seems unlikely that the increased efficiency could be worth screwing over the many customers with older AVRs which can't decode DD+.
post #12 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

So the 384 Kbps DD+ Netflix uses should be roughly equivalent to basic DD at what bit rate?

There's approximately a 2:1 difference in efficiency. But DD at 384 kbps is standard broadcast quality (as in regular HBO DBS and cable services), which is already very good, so I'd be surprised to see that bitrate used for DD+. How do you tell the bitrate and codec being used?

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It seems unlikely that the increased efficiency could be worth screwing over the many customers with older AVRs which can't decode DD+.

That's the beauty of DD+. It can be converted on the fly to DD.
post #13 of 94
The 384 number comes from this blog post and the codec, well...
post #14 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

There's approximately a 2:1 difference in efficiency. But DD at 384 kbps is standard broadcast quality (as in regular HBO DBS and cable services), which is already very good, so I'd be surprised to see that bitrate used for DD+. How do you tell the bitrate and codec being used?

msgohan answered your question.

So by that estimation, DD+ at 384 Kbps should approach the quality possible for basic DD at 768 Kbps? Which should then be superior to the 448 Kbps basic DD used on DVDs? Bitstreamed and decoded in my AVR, it does sound pretty damn good (for comparison, I use the beginning of the pilot of Lost; at 2:30 the main character stumbles into a chaotic scene of a plane wreck on the beach with people screaming and calling to each other over the whine of a still-running jet engine--a decent amount of LFE and activity in the surrounds). If you have a 5.1-capable Netflix player you should check it out.

Ironically, the PS3, the first device which could access the 5.1 Netflix tracks, has never bitstreamed DD+ from Netflix. Currently it outputs basic DD which seems weak and watered down compared to the DD+. The Viera Connect Netflix player running on my Panasonic BD player (DMP-BDT110) can play the 5.1 sound, either decoding it internally and rendering into 5.1 channel LPCM or bitstreaming it, but I principally use a Roku 2 XS for Netflix, which can also play the 1080p encodings which the BD player can't. Unfortunately the Roku players do not decode either basic DD or DD+ and merely pass them through (probably to save on per unit licensing); I had to buy a new AVR to play Netflix 5.1 channel sound from it.

AVS Forum member RangerOne, a tech blogger, has stated that he's been told that there are a couple of other devices which output basic DD for 5.1 sound and that Netflix actually keeps a set of encodings with DD sound integrated into the video for those devices; the devices which output DD+ stream a set of encodings where the 5.1 sound is kept separate from the video (something which he's been told is not possible to do with basic DD). If so, it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to for sound which isn't notably better than the available stereo track.
Quote:


That's the beauty of DD+. It can be converted on the fly to DD.

I've read the stuff on the website about DD+. Is it a conversion in the sense of decoding and re-encoding or is it the extraction of a basic DD core that the DD+ encoding is built on? Is there always a usable core encoding in a DD+ encoding? (There have been people in these forums who've stated that DD+ doesn't have to contain an extractable basic DD core, but I couldn't find anything to confirm that).
post #15 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

The 384 number comes from this blog post and the codec, well...

The blog post is from March 2011, the Dolby PR is October. The blog was referring to PS3 and ATV2 which used DD5.1@384. The Dolby PR talks about the new DD+ option for PS3 and X-Box 360. No bitrate mentioned, of course.
post #16 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The blog post is from March 2011, the Dolby PR is October. The blog was referring to PS3 and ATV2 which used DD5.1@384. The Dolby PR talks about the new DD+ option for PS3 and X-Box 360. No bitrate mentioned, of course.

I'm pretty sure that the blog was referring generically to 5.1 sound from Netflix--I don't believe that they created any separate 5.1 sound encoding for the several devices which have become 5.1 capable since the PR and as I stated the Roku 2 can only bitstream DD 5.1.
post #17 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

So by that estimation, DD+ at 384 Kbps should approach the quality possible for basic DD at 768 Kbps?

Yes, but Netflix is not going to do that. You saw in the cited blog post how bitrate is a factor for many users who live with service caps.

Quote:


Ironically, the PS3, the first device which could access the 5.1 Netflix tracks, has never bitstreamed DD+ from Netflix. Currently it outputs basic DD which seems weak and watered down compared to the DD+.

You might be right, but are you sure? One way to tell is if your AVR has a bitrate display for the DD stream. If is is DD384, it is native DD. if it is DD640, it is converted from DD+.

Quote:


I principally use a Roku 2 XS for Netflix, which can also play the 1080p encodings which the BD player can't. Unfortunately the Roku players do not decode either basic DD or DD+ and merely pass them through (probably to save on per unit licensing); I had to buy a new AVR to play Netflix 5.1 channel sound from it.

If your HDMI/DD-capable AVR could not play audio from the Roku, that pretty much conforms both points: Netflix is sending DD+ to the Roku, and it has no internal Dolby decoder/converter.

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AVS Forum member RangerOne, a tech blogger, has stated that he's been told that there are a couple of other devices which output basic DD for 5.1 sound

Is there any device that cannot?

Quote:


and that Netflix actually keeps a set of encodings with DD sound integrated into the video for those devices; the devices which output DD+ stream a set of encodings where the 5.1 sound is kept separate from the video (something which he's been told is not possible to do with basic DD).

If not, it is an internal Netflix issue, nothing to do with the audio codec per se.

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If so, it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to for sound which isn't notably better than the available stereo track.

5.1 is always better than stereo, if the playback system is surround capable.

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I've read the stuff on the website about DD+. Is it a conversion in the sense of decoding and re-encoding or is it the extraction of a basic DD core that the DD+ encoding is built on?

Decoding and re-encoding is called transcoding -- going from one format to another. The DD+ signal is not build on a DD core. That would not save bitrate. But DD+ was designed to use much of the same structure as DD specifically so it could be converted without losing a generation as happens with transcoding.

Quote:


Is there always a usable core encoding in a DD+ encoding? (There have been people in these forums who've stated that DD+ doesn't have to contain an extractable basic DD core, but I couldn't find anything to confirm that).

I hope I just confirmed it.
post #18 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I'm pretty sure that the blog was referring generically to 5.1 sound from Netflix--I don't believe that they created any separate 5.1 sound encoding for the several devices which have become 5.1 capable since the PR

Yes, DD5.1, not DD+5.1. So the idea that DD+ is using 384 kbps is unfounded, which was the original issue at hand.

Quote:


and as I stated the Roku 2 can only bitstream DD 5.1.

You just stated: >>Roku players do not decode either basic DD or DD+ and merely pass them through (probably to save on per unit licensing); I had to buy a new AVR to play Netflix 5.1 channel sound from it.<< So which is it?
post #19 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Yes, but Netflix is not going to do that. You saw in the cited blog post how bitrate is a factor for many users who live with service caps.

Exactly, which is why they have the quality limit setting, but caps are not a factor for many other people. I have a cap for my 25 Mbps Cox cable modem service but it's 250GB/month; with all of my downloading and streaming I rarely exceed 175GB. Netflix let's you limit the highest bit rate encoding that they will send you, but if you choose the highest setting, they will send you up to 4800 Kpbs 1080p video plus 384 Kbps DD+ sound, if bandwidth available on your connection to their server is high enough and your device is 1080p and 5.1 capable and the title you're streaming has those encoding available (you'll get the 384 Kpbs DD+ with 3600 Kbps 720p if your device is 5.1 capable and not 1080p capable; most titles with 720p video encodings seem to have 1080p encodings as well but only a relative handful have 5.1 sound). I've measured average bandwidth consumption while streaming from Netflix and the numbers are in line with those.
Quote:


You might be right, but how do you know? One way to tell is if your AVR has a bitrate display for the DD stream. If is is DD384, it is native DD. if it is DD640, it is converted from DD+.

My AVR cannot display sound encoding bit rate, so my only judgement is how it sounds compared to another device bitstreaming the DD+; I've played both simultaneously and switched back and forth and the basic DD from the PS3 compares poorly. As I stated, I like the sound of the 192 Kbps stereo better--it just seems fuller and punchier.
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If your HDMI/DD-capable AVR could not play audio from the Roku, that pretty much conforms both points: Netflix is sending DD+ to the Roku, and it has no internal Dolby decoder/converter.

Yes--which is why I say that they may be a doing a disservice to their customers by using DD+. My HDMI switching AVR w/o DD+ decoding was only 5 years old (from an Onkyo HTiB package). Surely there's lots of similar equipment still in use. I was willing to upgrade, because I'd been thinking about doing it for a couple of years, but not everyone is. All of my other digital surround equipment which deals with advanced sound encodings can internally decode them into LPCM, which my old AVR could handle, so I'd never needed to upgrade for anything before the Roku 2.
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Is there any device that cannot?

Plenty--I have 6 devices which can stream Netflix: the Roku 2 XS, PS3, Panasonic BD player, TiVo Series3, Xbox 360 and this PC (which is connected to the same 1080p LCD panel and AVR as the rest of that stuff). Of those, only the Roku, PS3, BD player and Xbox can stream the 5.1 sound, and the Xbox has only had that capability since the December dashboard update. I'm sure that the great majority of pre-2011 streaming STBs, BD players and televisions with embedded Netflix players (and probably most 2011 ones) still cannot stream the 5.1 sound and only a very small handful can stream the 1080p encodings which debuted on the PS3 at the same time.
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The DD+ signal is not build on a DD core. That would not save bitrate. But DD+ was designed to use much of the same structure as DD specifically so it could be converted without losing a generation as happens with transcoding.

Use of an extractable core always seemed unlikely to be more efficient to me, but Dolby's literature is confusing on that point. From this document:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:


Dolby Digital Plus, by contrast, uses a “core plus extension” structure, a new and unique technique to address downmix compatibility. The core is a complete 5.1-channel mix, while an extension contains any additional channels.

With 7.1-channel content, for example, the Dolby Digital Plus bitstream contains a core audio packet with a 5.1 mix, plus an extension audio packet containing the original 7.1 mix’s separate Left Surround, Right Surround, Left Back, and Right Back channels. To ensure that no surround information is lost in 5.1 playback, the surround channels of the 5.1 mix are downmixed from the separate surround and back channels of the original 7.1 mix. For 7.1 playback, the Left, Center, and Right channels of the core 5.1 packet are used, but its two downmixed surround channels are replaced by the four separate surround channels from the extension packet. There’s no need to include a separate stereo (two-channel) mix because all Dolby Digital decoders can create a stereo mix from a 5.1 mix on the fly.

Thus Dolby Digital Plus supports both 5.1 and 7.1 presentations without the need for rematrixing and its potential for negative side effects. The high coding efficiency of Dolby Digital Plus—coupled with the large capacity of the Blu-ray Disc format—means there is no real penalty for the resulting 9.1-channel load: Dolby Digital Plus can deliver 7.1-channel soundtracks with superb quality at bit rates of 1 Mbps or less.


The statement, "the core is a complete 5.1-channel mix" is what had me confused.
post #20 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

if you choose the highest setting, they will send you up to 4800 Kpbs 1080p video plus 384 Kbps DD+ sound

Do you have any evidence of this? Thus far we have established only that they use DD at 384 k.

Quote:


My AVR cannot display sound encoding bit rate, so my only judgement is how it sounds compared to another device bitstreaming the DD+; I've played both simultaneously and switched back and forth and the basic DD from the PS3 compares poorly. As I stated, I like the sound of the 192 Kbps stereo better--it just seems fuller and punchier.

Maybe that's a difference in the master/mix. Anyway, we cannot deduce anything about DD+ bitrates based on that.

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Yes--which is why I say that they may be a doing a disservice to their customers by using DD+.

As we know, Netflix has no reservations about pointing guns at their toes.

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Plenty--I have 6 devices which can stream Netflix: the Roku 2 XS, PS3, Panasonic BD player, TiVo Series3, Xbox 360 and this PC (which is connected to the same 1080p LCD panel and AVR as the rest of that stuff). Of those, only the Roku, PS3, BD player and Xbox can stream the 5.1 sound, and the Xbox has only had that capability since the December dashboard update.

Ok, that clears it up for me. So it's not a device limitation after all, but a limitation of the Netflix player for that device. Ok.

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Use of an extractable core always seemed unlikely to be more efficient to me, but Dolby's literature is confusing on that point.

Yes, I wrote the original version with Craig Eggers. But the core is still DD+, not DD.
post #21 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Since I worked on this project at Dolby, I can assure you it is conversion. The DD+ bitstream can be repackaged on the fly to conform to DD requirements, and whatever quality is defined by the DD+ stream will be retained in the DD output, up to DD's limit of 640 kbps.

I find it hard to belive. You are saying that ALL the DD+ devices have to decode the incoming DD+ stream and encode it live back to DD??? That's a lot of audio DSP horsepower.

Even if it was so, then what is the meaning of this statement on Dolby site:
Quote:


Includes complete metadata support and backward compatibility with existing home theaters

Quote:


Professional metadata parameters are only carried in the Dolby® E bitstream and are used to configure a downstream decoder. Consumer parameters are carried in the Dolby E, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby Digital bitstreams, and are used by the consumer’s decoder.

How would be "backward compatible" if it does not have the same "core" bitstream as DD? How would a old receiver be capable to decode it?
For me is obvious that the original DD bitstream is unaltered, and the "extra" information is separated in supplemental bitstreams.
Now... either Dolby site misleads, or you are not what are you claiming to be.
post #22 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Yes, DD5.1, not DD+5.1. So the idea that DD+ is using 384 kbps is unfounded, which was the original issue at hand.

The blog entry is talking about surround sound, period, which I find it hard to believe is ever available from them as anything but DD+. The only hint that they might also stream basic DD 5.1 was an unattributed one from RangerOne, who also said that they'd have to provide it integrated into the video. I personally find it hard to believe because it would require that they maintain a huge number of additional encodings: video at 6 or 7 bit rates with integral basic DD, video at the same number of bit rates without integral sound and separate DD+ and stereo sound tracks for use with the latter. When the conversion of DD+ to basic DD is supposedly fast and easy why would they do that?
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You just stated: >>Roku players do not decode either basic DD or DD+ and merely pass them through (probably to save on per unit licensing); I had to buy a new AVR to play Netflix 5.1 channel sound from it.<< So which is it?

Roku STBs stream from a huge number of services. Before the Roku 2 line, the only 5.1 sound available from any streaming service through the Roku (that I know of) was basic DD 5.1 from Amazon. Amazon still provides basic DD 5.1 for some subset of titles. They don't process that, either, but many more AVRs can decode it than can decode DD+. (My old AVR would receive the Netflix DD+ bitstream and output some static).
post #23 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

I find it hard to belive. You are saying that ALL the DD+ devices have to decode the incoming DD+ stream and encode it live back to DD??? That's a lot of audio DSP horsepower.

No, the process is called conversion. It's not computationally difficult. And if they choose to decode internally and output as PCM or analog, they do not have to support the conversion option. That is only necessary for legacy AVR support.

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How would be "backward compatible" if it does not have the same "core" bitstream as DD? How would a old receiver be capable to decode it?

The converted DD output is compatible.

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For me is obvious that the original DD bitstream is unaltered, and the "extra" information is separated in supplemental bitstreams.
Now... either Dolby site misleads, or you are not what are you claiming to be.

I do not know what you are talking about. I guess that makes two of us.
post #24 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Do you have any evidence of this? Thus far we have established only that they use DD at 384 k.

As far I'm concerned it's not established that they use basic DD at all.

I'm going to fire off a couple of tweets to their Netflixhelps account to see whether they'll comment on it.
post #25 of 94
I haven't read all the posts yet, but the DD stream that comes out of the optical output of the PS3 and the WD TV Live when playing Netflix 5.1 is 640kbps.

Here's the press release from Oct 2010 where they announced Dolby Digital Plus on Netflix: https://secure.onlineprocessing.biz/...309&item=54160
post #26 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If they are delivering 5.1 audio @384kbps in March of 2011, then what other codec would it be besides DD that can pass thru a Roku into an AVR? DTS?

Nothing emerges from the Roku Netflix player when you choose 5.1 sound except for DD+, ever. I upgraded my AVR to one which can decode DD+ just for that (though I'd been thinking about doing it for a couple of years). My other devices which can handle Netflix 5.1 sound default to that; the Roku doesn't presumably because they can't be confident that the device they're outputting to can decode it. (It's pretty annoying to have to go in and select it every time, particularly since they reset it between episodes of a TV series. They ought to add a "Yes--the downstream HDMI sink can decode DD+" setting or maybe just examine the device's E-EDID block to determine if it can ).

For the four devices that I have which can stream 5.1 sound from Netflix, the "Audio and subtitles" menu from which to select it always calls it explicitly "name-of-language (Dolby Digital Plus 5.1)", even the Xbox and PS3, both of which output only basic DD when playing those titles. This set of encodings separates sound out from video and can support multiple soundtracks; the Netflix test clips usually offer sound in 7 or 8 different languages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

I haven't read all the posts yet, but the DD stream that comes out of the optical output of the PS3 and the WD TV Live when playing Netflix 5.1 is 640kbps.

Which would indicate converted DD+, Roger?

msgohan, do you have both devices connected to your AVR via optical S/PDIF?
post #27 of 94
I usually have them hooked up by HDMI to my Denon, which doesn't show bitrates (as far as I know). To check the bitrate I had to connect them via optical to an old sound card.
post #28 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Nothing emerges from the Roku Netflix player when you choose 5.1 sound except for DD+, ever.

Yes, that is the peril issue you raised earlier. Not everyone can handle DD+. I guess they can risk it because they have the stereo option always available.

Quote:


(It's pretty annoying to have to go in and select it every time, particularly since they reset it between episodes of a TV series. They ought to add a "Yes--the downstream HDMI sink can decode DD+" setting or maybe just examine the device's E-EDID block to determine if it can ).

They had to choose the lesser of the complaint generators. Missing sound or missing surround.

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For the four devices that I have which can stream 5.1 sound from Netflix, the "Audio and subtitles" menu from which to select it always calls it explicitly "name-of-language (Dolby Digital Plus 5.1)", even the Xbox and PS3, both of which output only basic DD when playing those titles.

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Which would indicate converted DD+, Roger?

Yes.

Thank you msgohan for the link to the original PR. I see I had misread the year in my earlier search, it was actually 2010, making it before the blog post. If indeed they are using 384 kbps for DD+, it should make for a very good result.
post #29 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

msgohan answered your question.

So by that estimation, DD+ at 384 Kbps should approach the quality possible for basic DD at 768 Kbps? Which should then be superior to the 448 Kbps basic DD used on DVDs? Bitstreamed and decoded in my AVR, it does sound pretty damn good (for comparison, I use the beginning of the pilot of Lost; at 2:30 the main character stumbles into a chaotic scene of a plane wreck on the beach with people screaming and calling to each other over the whine of a still-running jet engine--a decent amount of LFE and activity in the surrounds). If you have a 5.1-capable Netflix player you should check it out.

Ironically, the PS3, the first device which could access the 5.1 Netflix tracks, has never bitstreamed DD+ from Netflix. Currently it outputs basic DD which seems weak and watered down compared to the DD+. The Viera Connect Netflix player running on my Panasonic BD player (DMP-BDT110) can play the 5.1 sound, either decoding it internally and rendering into 5.1 channel LPCM or bitstreaming it, but I principally use a Roku 2 XS for Netflix, which can also play the 1080p encodings which the BD player can't. Unfortunately the Roku players do not decode either basic DD or DD+ and merely pass them through (probably to save on per unit licensing); I had to buy a new AVR to play Netflix 5.1 channel sound from it.

AVS Forum member RangerOne, a tech blogger, has stated that he's been told that there are a couple of other devices which output basic DD for 5.1 sound and that Netflix actually keeps a set of encodings with DD sound integrated into the video for those devices; the devices which output DD+ stream a set of encodings where the 5.1 sound is kept separate from the video (something which he's been told is not possible to do with basic DD). If so, it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to for sound which isn't notably better than the available stereo track.
I've read the stuff on the website about DD+. Is it a conversion in the sense of decoding and re-encoding or is it the extraction of a basic DD core that the DD+ encoding is built on? Is there always a usable core encoding in a DD+ encoding? (There have been people in these forums who've stated that DD+ doesn't have to contain an extractable basic DD core, but I couldn't find anything to confirm that).

Apple TV 2 is an example. It does not transcoding DD+ to DD since it's not licensed to do it. So, Netflix is serving out regular DD not DD+ to those boxes. Other boxes like the WD Live do handle the DD+ to DD conversion on the fly for their optical digital audio outputs

Roger, thanks for all of the insights!
post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Apple TV 2 is an example. It does not transcoding DD+ to DD since it's not licensed to do it. So, Netflix is serving out regular DD not DD+ to those boxes. Other boxes like the WD Live do handle the DD+ to DD conversion on the fly for their optical digital audio outputs

Roger, thanks for all of the insights!

As stated above, indications are that the PS3, WD Live and Xbox are all converting. I note that the ATV's user interface is the only one which doesn't refer to Netflix's 5.1 sound as being Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 (it just displays that little Dolby magnetic tape heads logo).

As discussed, Roku 2 doesn't license Dolby conversion tech either and just passes the DD+ bits through.

Supplying a separate set of encodings with integral basic DD seems ultimately unsustainable. I suppose it's okay for the moment, inasmuch as there are only about a thousand titles with 5.1 sound (some of them being television series with dozens of hours of programming each). The whole library has got to be into petabytes by this time. I suppose if Apple is willing to pay for it it doesn't matter and if I were Netflix that's exactly what they'd have had to do to get that.
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