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Fork of HCFR Started - What's needed? - Page 38

post #1111 of 1968
12/12/12 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

I am using AVSHD greyscale, saturation patterns, etc. to do the calibration.
But when I go take the greayscale measurement, HCFR didn't even prompts me to display the 0%, 10%, 20% greyscale etc.
In the past, with HCFR it prompt me to display each greyscale. It seems to automatically display its own pattterns and take the measurements extremely quickly.
Unless, I am doing something incorrectly.

goto

MEASURES -> GENERATOR -> SELECT
Quote:
Is this how HFCR measures grayscale now?
always worked like that, if VIEW IMAGES was selected
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post #1112 of 1968
12/12/12 at 7:08am
Thanks, I'll give that a try tonight.
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post #1113 of 1968
12/12/12 at 8:59am
Using a D3 meter, I don't see anywhere to choose Plasma, LCD, etc as a display choice?


bob
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post #1114 of 1968
12/12/12 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Using a D3 meter, I don't see anywhere to choose Plasma, LCD, etc as a display choice?
bob

With plasma use display type "refresh"
Sync it with TV pressing calibrate with IRE30 window

If you use it as contact, wait something like 20-30 minutes until temperature is evened
If use as non-contact, select "projector" and place it 4-8 inch from screen, depends also if there is reflections etc

http://www.avforums.com/forums/16521065-post300.html
From there you can find pretty good DIY so your room don´t have to be dark when measuring smile.gif

Here is also some other basic settings (from there you can find answer to your question):
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/780#post_22266748
(I´m using Win8 and path is c:\Users\"User name"\AppData\Roaming\color\)

If you want use Spectral sample for plasma:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433489/favor-request-from-anyone-with-a-i1display-pro-plasma-and-reference-meter-need-a-ccss
http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/colorimetercorrections/?get&type=ccss&manufacturer=Samsung%20Electric%20Company&display=SAMSUNG&instrument=i1%20DisplayPro%2C%20ColorMunki%20Display%2C%20Spyder4&html=1
Save that .ccss file to path where .ccss files are
Run c:\Program Files (x86)\HCFR Calibration\Tools\i1d3ccss.exe from Command Prompt, however if I doubleclick that from windows it don´t add those to HCFR, maby it works for you.

With i1DPro(3) you may wanna try correction matrix by zoyd or kjgarrison:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/840#post_22311630

You can just type those to:
Advanced-->XYZ coordinates adjustment matrix-->manually edit XYZ conversion matrix

or download those from attachment and
Advanced-->XYZ coordinates adjustment matrix-->manually edit XYZ conversion matrix-->Load
Matrix for i1DPro.zip 1k .zip file
Edited by Make73 - 12/15/12 at 7:13am
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post #1115 of 1968
12/12/12 at 9:27pm
When choosing the option to calibrate the meter within HCFR it says to use a white image. (I'm paraphrasing as I cannot remember the exact wording) I simply brought up a 100% white greyscale window from the GCD disc to accomplish this. Is that acceptable or should I be using something else?
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post #1116 of 1968
12/13/12 at 7:51am
With i1DPro(3) you may wanna try correction matrix by zoyd or kjgarrison:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/840#post_22311630[/B]



What is the purpose of a matrix correction? Do you need it to calibrate a projector?
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post #1117 of 1968
12/13/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

With i1DPro(3) you may wanna try correction matrix by zoyd or kjgarrison:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/840#post_22311630[/B]
What is the purpose of a matrix correction? Do you need it to calibrate a projector?

Matrix is made against accurate meter (reference) so it corrects measure faults caused by meter.
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post #1118 of 1968
12/13/12 at 9:00am
But doesn't everyone's colorimeter (i1D3) different?

I don't think you can simply apply the same adjustments to all i1D3 that are out there. Or am I missing it?
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post #1119 of 1968
12/13/12 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

But doesn't everyone's colorimeter (i1D3) different?
I don't think you can simply apply the same adjustments to all i1D3 that are out there. Or am I missing it?

correct, the only way to accurately use a correction matrix is to use your meter and a spectro to create the tables for each type of display.
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post #1120 of 1968
12/13/12 at 9:33am
Do you calibrate a meter against a white test surface or a black test surface? I've read conflicting opinions.
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post #1121 of 1968
12/13/12 at 2:54pm
I'm getting major variances when trying to calibrate greyscale from 10-40 IRE, red and blue will move up and down by at least 6 percent without changing anything on the display (GT50), is this a limitation of my meter (i1 Display Pro) or is it something I may be doing wrong? I'm using AVS 709 for my patterns.
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post #1122 of 1968
12/13/12 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

But doesn't everyone's colorimeter (i1D3) different?
I don't think you can simply apply the same adjustments to all i1D3 that are out there. Or am I missing it?

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/MonitorCalibrationHardware.html

Instrument : i1Display Pro/CM Display
Units Tested : 13
Mean Delta-E 2000 : 0.4
Max DE-2000 : 1.6

Seems that there´s not so much variable between different units (when new).

Many have reported redish white balance without matrix.

Zoyd wrote earlier that using Matrix is more accurate than without it.
Of course you don´t get reference meter with using matrix which is made to other unit , but point is that you can get closer with that.

Zoyd made his one with i1 Pro 2 meter and kjgarrison´s matrix was delivered from Chromapure with meter. Those two matrixes are almost same, at least result is almost same. Only difference what I got was W/B High B +/- 1
rahzel reported same kind of results:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/840#post_22311630

However I used that and get rid of redish white.
Also color temperature difference is almost 500K, without matrix picture is too warm.
Of course it also affects to colors, CMS settings was also pretty different than without matrix.

You don´t have to use that, it´s there that you can try smile.gif
Try to set one preset without matrix and other with matrix so you can compare those.

Thanks to zoyd and kjgarrison for sharing their matrixes.

Here is picture when matrix was entered and made grayscale remeasurement, as you can see it´s quite redish:

Edited by Make73 - 12/14/12 at 4:00am
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post #1123 of 1968
12/14/12 at 1:34am
Ya, unit to unit variations are fairly small on the i1D3. Obviously referencing your meter to a spectro on your particular display will be the best option, but using a correction matrix from another i1D3 will be considerably better than not using one. I almost ended up with the same settings with zoyd and kj's matrices.
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post #1124 of 1968
12/14/12 at 5:43am
" Incorrect driver - Starting communication with the meter failed with severe error. Argyll error" I got this error when I used i1 Pro with HCFR on both laptop and desktop, already installed eye one pro argyll driver. Anyone knows why? dispcalGUI works fine though, it uses the same argyll driver as HCFR.
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post #1125 of 1968
12/14/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallengt View Post

" Incorrect driver - Starting communication with the meter failed with severe error. Argyll error" I got this error when I used i1 Pro with HCFR on both laptop and desktop, already installed eye one pro argyll driver. Anyone knows why? dispcalGUI works fine though, it uses the same argyll driver as HCFR.

Have a look here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/1080#post_22662548

Currently only HCFR Version 3.0.0.0 works with i1 Pro or i1 Pro 2 (note: these devices are different from an an i1 DISPLAY Pro, the i1 Display Pro doesn't have the same issue). You don't need to change your Argyll drivers to use HCFR 3.0.0.0 it is compatible up to Argyll 1.4.0.
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post #1126 of 1968
12/14/12 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobhc2010 View Post

I'm getting major variances when trying to calibrate greyscale from 10-40 IRE, red and blue will move up and down by at least 6 percent without changing anything on the display (GT50), is this a limitation of my meter (i1 Display Pro) or is it something I may be doing wrong? I'm using AVS 709 for my patterns.

are you using small apl windows or fields for the patterns? You may be hitting the limiter on the panel. Have you let the panel warm up with the meter in measuring position? plasmas can take 30+ minutes to warm up, and if using the meter in contact mode, or close to the screen it should have its temperature stabilized as well.
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post #1127 of 1968
12/14/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

are you using small apl windows or fields for the patterns? You may be hitting the limiter on the panel. Have you let the panel warm up with the meter in measuring position? plasmas can take 30+ minutes to warm up, and if using the meter in contact mode, or close to the screen it should have its temperature stabilized as well.

my kuro needs a full hour.

b
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post #1128 of 1968
12/14/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/MonitorCalibrationHardware.html

Instrument : i1Display Pro/CM Display
Units Tested : 13
Mean Delta-E 2000 : 0.4
Max DE-2000 : 1.6
Seems that there´s not so much variable between different units (when new).
Many have reported redish white balance without matrix.
Zoyd wrote earlier that using Matrix is more accurate than without it.
Of course you don´t get reference meter with using matrix which is made to other unit , but point is that you can get closer with that.
Zoyd made his one with i1 Pro 2 meter and kjgarrison´s matrix was delivered from Chromapure with meter. Those two matrixes are almost same, at least result is almost same. Only difference what I got was W/B High B +/- 1
rahzel reported same kind of results:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/840#post_22311630
However I used that and get rid of redish white.
Also color temperature difference is almost 500K, without matrix picture is too warm.
Of course it also affects to colors, CMS settings was also pretty different than without matrix.
You don´t have to use that, it´s there that you can try smile.gif
Try to set one preset without matrix and other with matrix so you can compare those.
Thanks to zoyd and kjgarrison for sharing their matrixes.
Here is picture when matrix was entered and made grayscale remeasurement, as you can see it´s quite redish:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Ya, unit to unit variations are fairly small on the i1D3. Obviously referencing your meter to a spectro on your particular display will be the best option, but using a correction matrix from another i1D3 will be considerably better than not using one. I almost ended up with the same settings with zoyd and kj's matrices.



Thanks, I like to give that a try. So if I've alrteady run my greyscale, can I enter the matrix and see how the numbers changes?

Or do I need to enter the matrix, and re-run grayscale?
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post #1129 of 1968
12/14/12 at 12:22pm
Entering the adjustment matrix will update all the measurements
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post #1130 of 1968
12/14/12 at 4:05pm
Zoyd your matrix work with the colormunki display ?

Thanks
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post #1131 of 1968
12/14/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

correct, the only way to accurately use a correction matrix is to use your meter and a spectro to create the tables for each type of display.

Well, I paid an extra $150 to have this done from Tom and not sure if it was really necessary, at least for the plasma correction. Here is my table:


edit: deleted per Tom.




Not sure how significant the difference is?

bob
Edited by spongebob - 12/16/12 at 9:25pm
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post #1132 of 1968
12/14/12 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by realzven View Post

Zoyd your matrix work with the colormunki display ?

Thanks

If it uses the same hardware it will help but i don't know if it does.
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post #1133 of 1968
12/15/12 at 12:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

If it uses the same hardware it will help but i don't know if it does.
Thanks zoyd wink.gif
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post #1134 of 1968
12/15/12 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Well, I paid an extra $150 to have this done from Tom and not sure if it was really necessary, at least for the plasma correction. Here is my table:
Field Reference
White Red Green Blue White Red Green Blue
Plasma
x 0.315 0.638 0.296 0.149 0.325 0.649 0.303 0.150
y 0.336 0.339 0.615 0.062 0.335 0.326 0.608 0.063
Not sure how significant the difference is?
bob

Four colour matrix

1,0575508364 -0,0090725012 -0,0145563124
-0,0030463377 1,0004775457 -0,0005755271
0,0031198015 0,0048183942 0,9667572552

Here is how your matrix affects to RGB Levels when added to calibrated RGB Levels without any correction.


Seems little bit different than zoyd´s or kjgarrisons´s

i1D3 spongebob matrix made by Tom Huffman.zip 0k .zip file
Edited by Make73 - 12/15/12 at 9:46am
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post #1135 of 1968
12/15/12 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

Four colour matrix
1,0575508364 -0,0090725012 -0,0145563124
-0,0030463377 1,0004775457 -0,0005755271
0,0031198015 0,0048183942 0,9667572552


Please explain in real world terms?

bob
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post #1136 of 1968
12/15/12 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Please explain in real world terms?
bob

See attachment and:
Advanced-->XYZ coordinates adjustment matrix-->manually edit XYZ conversion matrix-->Load

I´m totally amateur smile.gif, just used calculator from:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/630#post_22046028

If I change zoyd´s or kjgarrison´s matrix to your one it looks like this:

Seems that it needs even more red reducing.

Thanks for sharing this one, I´m gonna try with your matrix at next time smile.gif

btw, I can find from Argyll database .ccmx for Panasonic plasma television but is there any way to use that with HCFR? Convert .ccmx to .ccss or something redface.gif
Edited by Make73 - 12/15/12 at 9:06am
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post #1137 of 1968
12/15/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

are you using small apl windows or fields for the patterns? You may be hitting the limiter on the panel. Have you let the panel warm up with the meter in measuring position? plasmas can take 30+ minutes to warm up, and if using the meter in contact mode, or close to the screen it should have its temperature stabilized as well.

Small APL's, leaving it to warm up for an hour with the meter about 6 inches away from the screen. Still fluxuates a lot.
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post #1138 of 1968
12/15/12 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobhc2010 View Post

Small APL's, leaving it to warm up for an hour with the meter about 6 inches away from the screen. Still fluxuates a lot.

you can try to isolate where the fluctuation is sourced by

changing cables
changing inputs
changing blu-ray and dvd players
check the sets user menus and ensure any dynamic contrast, noise, black enhancement etc are off

I'll guess there is some setting on the set that is on and causing the fluctuation you are experiencing.
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post #1139 of 1968
12/15/12 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post

See attachment and:
Advanced-->XYZ coordinates adjustment matrix-->manually edit XYZ conversion matrix-->Load
I´m totally amateur smile.gif, just used calculator from:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/630#post_22046028
If I change zoyd´s or kjgarrison´s matrix to your one it looks like this:

Seems that it needs even more red reducing.
Thanks for sharing this one, I´m gonna try with your matrix at next time smile.gif
btw, I can find from Argyll database .ccmx for Panasonic plasma television but is there any way to use that with HCFR? Convert .ccmx to .ccss or something redface.gif

YW smile.gif

Let me know how it goes.

bob
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post #1140 of 1968
12/15/12 at 11:13am
Typical d3 offsets are around 500K, probe variability is probably in the 100K-200K range so I would expect to see that kind of variation when comparing different correction matrices.
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