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RED 4K 3D laser projector = $10K - Page 23

post #661 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Arn't there going to be 2 versions? one HT version with a fixed(non removeable)zoom lens, the other a commercial version without a lens. Both purchased through RED directly?
Yes!
Names;
HT version; REDRAY Projector.
Cinema version; CRIMSON.
post #662 of 768
Red cuts out the middleman except when it suits them to be a middleman but at least they set up a separate organization with the different name but cross ownership to do that. Odemax, a middleman, pure and simple.
post #663 of 768
For a llittle information about the Red "Crimson" laser light engine projector and a some more info on the Redray 4K Player and 4K camera watch this video interview from CES 2013:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/red-camera-interview/
post #664 of 768
RED didn't have the projector on demo at CES? that can't be a good sign.

release pushed back until fall qtr4 '13 or qtr1 '14? can someone confirm?
post #665 of 768
I read somewhere that the Red projector was in the Toshiba booth. Can't remember where I saw that.
post #666 of 768
Quote:
I read somewhere that the Red projector was in the Toshiba booth. Can't remember where I saw that.
They said it in the engadget interview.

I also heard that part about Sony delivering downloadable 4k content later this year (summer?). I'll be interested to read a little more on that.
post #667 of 768
No its the REDRAY Player in the Toshiba booth, playing on a 4k Toshiba tv.

Sony is going to be doing a 4k Deliver service that will be coming out in the summer, it will be mainly Sony movies at first. Sony is trying to work with everyone to get a standard. 2 things need to happen. 1. HEVC has to be finalized, This seems to be delayed right now. 2. A medium that everyone agrees on. Disc, Streaming,Cloud.

Most Likely it will be a blu-ray 4k with HEVC, and a code to redeem the 4k Delivery from Sony, if available. The reason Mainly is bandwidth available from a customer point of view. Bandwidth caps are too low for 4k, and that will not change for years.
post #668 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen View Post

They said it in the engadget interview.

I also heard that part about Sony delivering downloadable 4k content later this year (summer?). I'll be interested to read a little more on that.


You will have to wait. They stated nothing more and I doubt they know much about it. I suspect that plan was just hatched, a twinkle in Sony's eye but they include their own server in their commercial theater projectors and copy is hard delivered.
post #669 of 768
So, it wasn't the Redray projector but a Toshiba 4K set that was playing clips from the Redray player. The video still talks about the home version of the laser projector being in the $10,000 range. Where did the info about the even longer delay for delivery of the projector come from? That would be disappointing, if not surprising.
post #670 of 768
Red is not a classic consumer company. They would not likely show the projector at CES. CES is primarily aimed at resellers, importers, etc.
post #671 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

No its the REDRAY Player in the Toshiba booth, playing on a 4k Toshiba tv.

Sony is going to be doing a 4k Deliver service that will be coming out in the summer, it will be mainly Sony movies at first. Sony is trying to work with everyone to get a standard. 2 things need to happen. 1. HEVC has to be finalized, This seems to be delayed right now. 2. A medium that everyone agrees on. Disc, Streaming,Cloud.

Most Likely it will be a blu-ray 4k with HEVC, and a code to redeem the 4k Delivery from Sony, if available. The reason Mainly is bandwidth available from a customer point of view. Bandwidth caps are too low for 4k, and that will not change for years.

Especially in the US, bandwidth is going to be a problem. The Red codec, though, delivers 4K at about 20mbps. (I can get 30 with Charter most of the time.) And Red uses a derivative of wavelet technology, IIRC, which means it should stream without hiccuping on slower connections, although the resolution will drop. It's not like MPEG, though, which blocks or breaks up when the stream is interrupted. Wavelet just gets "softer." Again, don't quote me, but that's my understanding at this point.
post #672 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Especially in the US, bandwidth is going to be a problem. The Red codec, though, delivers 4K at about 20mbps. (I can get 30 with Charter most of the time.) And Red uses a derivative of wavelet technology, IIRC, which means it should stream without hiccuping on slower connections, although the resolution will drop. It's not like MPEG, though, which blocks or breaks up when the stream is interrupted. Wavelet just gets "softer." Again, don't quote me, but that's my understanding at this point.

Its speed and the Bandwidth Cap. A lot of people can only do 75gigs a month, some less, some more.
post #673 of 768
They said there was no set date for the projector. So it could be a few months, seasoms, or years. Nothing can be read into their presentation as to when the consumer version of the projector will be for sale.

Re Odemax, the guy stated that it was still a few months off. They had previous;y said a launch at Sundamnce next week. Now they say they are still testing the compression codec or whatever to put content on the Odemax network.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/10/13 at 6:29pm
post #674 of 768
They said there was no set date for the projector. So it could be a few months, seasons, or years. Nothing can be read into their presentation as to when the consumer version of the projector will be for sale.

Re Odemax, the guy stated that it was still a few months off. They had previously said a launch at Sundance next week. Now they say they are still testing the compression codec or whatever to put content on the Odemax network.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/10/13 at 2:06pm
post #675 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Its speed and the Bandwidth Cap. A lot of people can only do 75gigs a month, some less, some more.

I think it's mostly Canada that has such low caps. Americans mitch about 250GB/month. My current internet in the US is 25mb/s down with no cap for $40 vs Cogeco in Oakville at $80 with a 150GB cap and $1/GB over.
post #676 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Especially in the US, bandwidth is going to be a problem. The Red codec, though, delivers 4K at about 20mbps. (I can get 30 with Charter most of the time.) And Red uses a derivative of wavelet technology, IIRC, which means it should stream without hiccuping on slower connections, although the resolution will drop. It's not like MPEG, though, which blocks or breaks up when the stream is interrupted. Wavelet just gets "softer." Again, don't quote me, but that's my understanding at this point.
The Redray player isn't for streaming movies. It based on that you set the player to download content from Odemax to the internal storage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

They said there was no set date for the projector. So it could be a few months, seasoms, or years. Nothing can be read into their presentation as to when the consumer version of the projector will be for sale.
Expect that they will save most of the details of the projectors for NAB which is really their venue for announcements, and they need something "new" to announce there.
Quote:
Re Odemax, the guy stated that it was still a few months off. They had previous;y said a launch at Sundamnce next wewek. Now they say they are still testing the compression codec or whatever to put content on the Odemax network.
Originally they said the official launch should be at the Sundance festival, and that the Odemax network would be launched in March.
Now they have removed all references to Odemax at the Red.com Redray presentation and removed the launch references at the Odemax website. Expect some delays. Maybe some studios are on-board and demands a different launch time or event?

Last they said about the compression codec software some weeks ago was that the Image quality was "locked down" and that they now work on the efficiency of the software.
post #677 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

No its the REDRAY Player in the Toshiba booth, playing on a 4k Toshiba tv.

Sony is going to be doing a 4k Deliver service that will be coming out in the summer, it will be mainly Sony movies at first. Sony is trying to work with everyone to get a standard. 2 things need to happen. 1. HEVC has to be finalized, This seems to be delayed right now. 2. A medium that everyone agrees on. Disc, Streaming,Cloud.

Most Likely it will be a blu-ray 4k with HEVC, and a code to redeem the 4k Delivery from Sony, if available. The reason Mainly is bandwidth available from a customer point of view. Bandwidth caps are too low for 4k, and that will not change for years.

Think it will be download/play as per RED/Odemax model first, then BluRay 4k with HEVC, if 20Mbps existing BluRay hardware designs will be mostly fine with the new video decoding added. Current BluRay disk pressing facilities will be fine as well.

Here in Australia, download limits apply as well, I'm on a 100Gb plan, 3 movies a month will eat that up.......unless they have no download limits on movies via agreement with the users ISP, which is a possibility.
post #678 of 768
Well its time to cancel my Redray order. When Odemax is ever launched and has some content, I will reorder. Its complete BS to say content will be available over their network amd now to pretend they never said Sundance or March or whatever.
post #679 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

The Redray player isn't for streaming movies. It based on that you set the player to download content from Odemax to the internal storage.
Expect that they will save most of the details of the projectors for NAB which is really their venue for announcements, and they need something "new" to announce there.
Originally they said the official launch should be at the Sundance festival, and that the Odemax network would be launched in March.
Now they have removed all references to Odemax at the Red.com Redray presentation and removed the launch references at the Odemax website. Expect some delays. Maybe some studios are on-board and demands a different launch time or event?

Last they said about the compression codec software some weeks ago was that the Image quality was "locked down" and that they now work on the efficiency of the software.

I thought I read that the Redray player could play back downloaded content or stream it, but I'm probably wrong about that. Still, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't allow it. If you had a decent connection, you could stream free demo content that you might have no desire to store on the server itself.
post #680 of 768
It's disappointing if Red isn't going to release the laser projector any time soon, but hopefully when they finally do they'll get it right. I never thought I'd be saying this, but my current LCD projector (Epson 6010) should satisfy me until then. I currently have 4 3D displays - the Epson, a Samsung plasma, a Samsung active LCD and an LG passive LCD that I use for 3D video editing. Not a single one of them is perfect (by a long shot), but they should suffice. smile.gif Even if it's delayed a year, I still think the Red might be my next 3D projector.
post #681 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

It's disappointing if Red isn't going to release the laser projector any time soon, but hopefully when they finally do they'll get it right. I never thought I'd be saying this, but my current LCD projector (Epson 6010) should satisfy me until then. I currently have 4 3D displays - the Epson, a Samsung plasma, a Samsung active LCD and an LG passive LCD that I use for 3D video editing. Not a single one of them is perfect (by a long shot), but they should suffice. smile.gif Even if it's delayed a year, I still think the Red might be my next 3D projector.


For the HT version, if they have a active 3D option, I too would consider it, if it's passive only.....no thanks.
post #682 of 768
post #683 of 768
The guy says streaming and it isn't streaming.
post #684 of 768
I would say that a a good 4k codec providing good picture quality with something that actually can output the signal is more exciting then the projector. The projector will come but would be much less exciting if fed 8 bit color subsampled video in 1080 at 24fps.
post #685 of 768
Looks like this is being delayed again. Don't expect it for another 6 months, or more.
post #686 of 768
Ted from Red said it was being delayed 4 to 6 months and he is one of the world's biggest optimists

Also it wasn't clear as to whether he was referrirng to the commercial Red projectors or the consumer version.

My gut feeling is that no consumer machine will ship this year.

The Redray player which they showed a line of happy technicians in multiple production mode hasn't started shipping yet either.

Odemax. Was supposed to make a spash at some manufacturer's etc booth complex somewhere at Sundfance, the location was published, now there is just silence on the Red site. Odemax was never really supposed to lauch until March anyway and I think Sundance was to just attract the eye of source producers. Be interesting if anything is announced tomorrow when Sundance starts.

this is all part and [arcel of Red. It eventually delivers good stuff at great prices but it does tend to self promote way way way in advance of delivery. Its something you just have to put up with and not base any firm plans on with a time line.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/17/13 at 6:54am
post #687 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Odemax. Was supposed to make a spash at some manufacturer's etc booth complex somewhere at Sundfance, the location was published, now there is just silence on the Red site. Odemax was never really supposed to lauch until March anyway and I think Sundance was to just attract the eye of source producers. Be interesting if anything is announced tomorrow when Sundance starts.

I expect Odemax to be presented at Sundance House Presented by HP and the event; 4k and Beyond: The Evolving Role of Technology in Digital Filmmaking Monday January 21, 2:00-4:00 p.m. Sundance House. Moderated by: Ted Schilowitz, RED Digital Camera.
That's according to Odemax Twitter December 23.
Don't expect any announcement about content except if they have secured distribution deals with some notable content owners.
post #688 of 768
I think it very strange that there is absolutely no mention of these events on either Odemax's or Red's internet sites. Zippo.

When will Redrays start shipping. Why did they self promote showing production lines and talking like its done and ready? Obviously it isn't.

Odemax obviously has problems too and there must be big problems with the studeos. But the indepedent guys which have no avenues should be jumping on board and Sundance is the perfect place for that. So many films, so little distribution. A March launch for Odemax going to the end of March is only about 70 days away. Obviously they are still perfecting software and setting up to do business. But why do they act like they are ready. The projector just slips from year to year. Everybody likes Ted and they like cheap and he can say whatever he wants. Why not say we have put the projector on the back burner. We built a prototype, it works but we have other fish which need to be cooked first. They said the end of 2012, now they are saying 6 months. Ther consumer model isn't going to happen this year just like it didn't happen last year.


How many business try to cover the whole horizon and fail. Production, capture, distribution, and display. The history of audio is littered with companies that tried to expand horizontally from what they did well. Maybe it will be different this time.
post #689 of 768
Another point about startup distributors and major studeos.

The Redray player is not out yet,. any commercial theater wisjhing to play Odemax transmitted content would need the player (which is really a server). Red plans to build the server into its commercial and hoime projectors but none are out yet and won't be for at least 6 months. Unless a major studeo wants home distribution, at thiis point why should they sign on. A commercial theater has to buy an additional server to hook up to Odemax. Odemax has no content. No homes have the player. And now quiet comes from Odemax and things are not discussed and going very slowly. Will it happen?. Probably but it will be slowly and major studeos will have to see Red projectors in commercial theaters (those that haven't yet swiched to digital and getting content on hard drives delivered to them and a limited license key). I hope my analysis is wrong and I hope Sundance is a buzz with Odemax and a true launch eith content happens in March.
Edited by mark haflich - 1/17/13 at 9:02pm
post #690 of 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Its speed and the Bandwidth Cap. A lot of people can only do 75gigs a month, some less, some more.

Nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I think it's mostly Canada that has such low caps. Americans mitch about 250GB/month. My current internet in the US is 25mb/s down with no cap for $40 vs Cogeco in Oakville at $80 with a 150GB cap and $1/GB over.

I can't speak for Canada, but you are correct about the U.S.

Comcast is 250GB (and about to raise it for everyone not on the base tier). Uverse is the same with $10 for 50GB overage.

TWC offers an idiotic tiered plan in some markets, but also offers unlimited to people who prefer not to be treated like morons in search of false savings.

Most others in the U.S. are similar, but those are among the largest.
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