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Swamp build - Page 3

post #61 of 109
Originally Posted by Jasman View Post

....Also, keep the subcontractors liking you......

The workers on the job really appreciate a few kind words. Never hurts to show up with a cooler full of cold drinks either. So many "well heeled" homeowners are complete a-holes that the guys in the trenches remember the people who treat them with dignity and respect.
post #62 of 109

During our home construction, if I had a question about something being done, or a decision had to be made about something, I made it a point to include the sub in the conversation whenever possible. I always tried to point out that I wanted advice, and I wanted to know what they would do based on their experience if it was their home! There were several times that the subs had great ideas. They do that stuff everyday after all, and have a good idea of what works, what doesn't, and what get's them called back to be fixed. I'd rather use their knowledge than think I know it all. I don't mind being humble smile.gif
post #63 of 109
Do you speak Spanish? That would go a long way on the drywall and guacamole phase. Hopefully someone on the crew will be semi bi-lingual. I'd also suggest doing a mockup of the clip-channel-drywall-guac-drywall sandwich so they can see how the parts go together. They won't get it unless they see that the screws cannot penetrate past the channel and see how the clips need to let the drywall float free of the framing.

Keep control of the materials too, especially the screws. Don't let them near the long screws for the second layer until you are ready to start installing it. And confiscate any screws that they may already have. One too long screw will screw up the whole thing.

You should also print out the drawings, in color, from Ted's web site and have someone annotate them in Spanish for you. Post them where the workers can refer to them.

Construction has gotten tough - we either have stupid white guys that won't listen or smart, talented Mexicans that don't know what the hell we're talking about. And don't get me started on the sparkys.
post #64 of 109
I'm pretty sure Ted has instructions in Spanish already. I've seen it mentioned in other threads.
post #65 of 109
That assumes they can read. I've never had problems communicating with a guest worker crew, You just have to use sign language, and maybe draw a sketch of overlapping sheets of drywall. Once the first layer is up you don't need to look for a piece of paper.
post #66 of 109
are you saying you can't snap a channel into a clip on the wall? Put it in the lower clip hooks, put your hands on both sides like you are doing an overhand pull-up and pull down and squeeze, it should click in.
post #67 of 109
If you feel the need to use channel lock pliers to get channel in the clips, you probably have 20 gauge. If you can get the channel in the clips by hand without too much trouble, it's probably 25.

Pick up a 25ga stud at one of the big stores.. That should give you an idea.

post #68 of 109
there is occasional touching and then there is pressing on the channel to the extent that it will interfere with the free movement of the channel. If you think it is the latter it should be moved, reduced or eliminated. It is a judgment call. Obviously it should never be stuffed tight between something in the ceiling structure and the channel.
post #69 of 109
If the rock wool constrains movement in the channel, that would be a problem. If it is near the perimeter of your room it would not be a problem in any case.
post #70 of 109
That looks REALLY good! Love the ceiling height....what is that, 10'? Are you planning on doing the finish work yourself or are you GC'ing this theater completely?
post #71 of 109
My gut looking at the pictures is that once the channels are up there won't be many areas where the insulation presses on the channel. The clip gives you some additional drop below the joist bottom. Proceed.
post #72 of 109
Just to add another factoid to this thread on 25 versus 20 gauge channel. A stack of 10 twelve ft channels should weigh 31 lbs if they are 25 gauge and 44 lbs if the undesirable 20 gauge. Just stand on a bathroom scale and hold a 10 stick stack.
post #73 of 109
Your ceilng heght makes your space look HUGE!
post #74 of 109
It looks like your contractor is doing a great job. I have 9' ceilings in my theater area (8'7" after channels, drywall, etc.) and I am very jealous for the extra 3' in height you have. I tried to buy extra foundation height, but they were charging an outrageous amount of like $28,000 for an extra two feet.

I can't wait to see the finish work take shape, although I realize from your previous comments that may take a while before you start.
post #75 of 109
This is not a show stopper; but, ducts should be brought through the drywall using a metal sleeve so you can properly seal around the penetration. In the first picture the sleeve isn't full pulled down into the room

post #76 of 109
Note the way the track is installed over this door

post #77 of 109
Dennis, a section of track like in your picture was added just before drywall. You can make it out in the following picture.
Edited by BIGmouthinDC - 9/27/12 at 5:50am
post #78 of 109
So rabident asked me to come down for a day to supervise the drywalling process. Coordinating with the builder and his subs was not easy, to get them to commit to an exact date was a challenge so I was kind of on standby for the assignment. I got there Monday night and we found two walls without channel so Rabident and I finished what we could with the channel on hand but we were still 3 rows short on one wall. An emergency delivery of another bundle in the morning solved that and by 9:45 am the room was ready to rock. It took awhile to get the guys to down from working on the other floors And we started about 10:15

This is how we started 3 guys, no lift just a couple of ladders. One superman on stilts. One guy on the ground would hand the end up to the guy on stilts another guy would climb a ladder. Holding the drywall up with one hand and with a screw gun in the other the superman fasten his end then walked over and fastened the other. To start the first row they were having problems positioning the first sheet so it wasn't touching the framing and they wanted to do the walls first. So I suggested sliding pieces of drywall as blocking under the channel, installing the drywall then removing the blocking. That worked and everyone was happy.


I started out putting on the Green Glue but it must have looked like fun because by the end of the day all 6 members of the crew (including superman) wanted to take a turn so they could add that to their resume, I was happy to oblige as my hand was getting stiff.


Throughout the day a big concern was were they using the right screws, 1 1/4 for the first layer and 2 inches for the second. First and second layers were going up at the same time in different areas of the room and we kept looking over there shoulders and reminding them and as a final test we pushed the walls to see if they would move without being bound to a stud. It was in this process that I discovered that I could set up a standing wave in the 12 x 30 wall at about 80-100 cycles per minute. When I pushed in the far end would come out and if I did it repeatedly at the right frequency it would oscillate. It did however stop immediately if I stopped pushing.

I think the main room was done by 5pm, basically 6 hours for a 3 man crew before lunch and 6 guys after. The most interesting thing I saw was a kid who couldn't have been more than 150 lbs carrying a full sheet (4x12) in by himself.
Edited by BIGmouthinDC - 9/28/12 at 5:33am
post #79 of 109
You should consider getting a pneumatic caulking gun if you do a lot of work with green glue. It is a real time saver for us.
post #80 of 109
How do you load a pneumatic gun? All the ones I've seen use cartridges? We are using 5 gallon buckets of green glue.
post #81 of 109
It was in this process that I discovered that I could set up a standing wave in the 12 x 30 wall at about 80-100 cycles per minute.
Well, that's a problem.
post #82 of 109
Ted Thought it was a good thing that it was such a low frequency. It also took about 100 lbs of force and damped immediately when I stopped pushing.
post #83 of 109
If that's a load bearing wall, that is a problem.
If that is one side of a double stud wall, that is a problem if the studs contact each other.
I note from reviewing some of the pictures, there is no blocking. In most areas, a 12' wall will require blocking at the 1/3 and 2/3 locations (height).
post #84 of 109
I couldn't see much in the video, but are we saying the actual wood framing is moving around, or the drywall (attached to channel) is moving? If it's the latter, I thought we would expect some movement? If it's the former, then there is definitely a structural issue.
post #85 of 109
Judging from the degree of compression, it would indicate there is very little compression of the clips and channel and the majority of the movement is structural ... which, aside from structural issues is serving to transmit vibratory energy into the structure of the house. That's not too much of a problem if your intent is to keep the room quiet. It is a problem if your intent is to keep the house quiet. (granted, the movement itself is absorbing energy which is a good thing).
post #86 of 109
I'm guessing the opposite side of the wall/studs is already drywalled?
post #87 of 109
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

How can you tell if the studs are flexing vs the channel?

If I remember the layout of your space, the unfinished furnace room sits perpendicular to the wall in question. If you can get in there with a flashlight and peer down the backside of the wall while someone beefy shakes the wall like we were doing you might be able to see the studs either moving or standing still unless insulation blocks the view. Actually if the insulation is moving the studs are probably moving.

Worst case is you could cut a fist sized hole in your nice new walls where it is flexing the most, reach in there and grab hold of a stud while someone oscillates the wall. Then you have your answer and can patch the wall.
post #88 of 109
I think it was how much (amplitude of the wave) we were moving the drywall and how much flex a clips and channel system offers.
My one other reference point.

Click for video:

post #89 of 109
If the wall is not load bearing, that removes the structural concern. Under normal circumstances, a wall with that degree of flex would not be desirable in a playback space. In this case, the interior walls will have a 2x4 framing attached to the interior of the wall, soffits, columns and wood panelling. Those elements will reduce the flex in the wall. The portion of the wall between the mechanical room and the theater will be double stud ... just need to maintain at least a 1/4" to 1/2" gap between the framing of those two walls.
post #90 of 109
We use the 5 gallon buckets too. The pneumatic gun has a reverse switch where it sucks up the glue from the bucket and then you can apply it. It isn't the type to use the tubes it is made for a bucket. It is like a pneumatic version of the speed loader. It lets you keep up with the dry wall crew. We will often apply the glue and the dry wall guys keep a normal pace. It wasn't an inexpensive gun. I don't remember but I think it was 3 or 4 hundred dollars and came with different size tips. But, It really saves a lot of time. A worthwhile investment if you use green glue frequently.
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