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Anyone ever regret buying a SVS PB-12NSD ? - Page 3

post #61 of 163
If you look at the value proposition, the EX on sale cannot be beat period - everyone has to make their own conclusions if the pros and cons outweigh the value factor
post #62 of 163
I agree with what you say. I have the 15H and have never even had it close to reference. I think the most I have gotten it up to was -20db from ref. With a houseful of children and even one grandchild I don't think I will ever be alone to really crank it up.

And like I said before, you couldn't go wrong with any of your choices. I am sure you will enjoy your new sub. When is it due to be delivered?


Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

Substantial is somewhat relative....only dedicated HT's are pushing 115dB or more of sub 70Hz. Not average living rooms with WAF factor or GAF.
You are discounting the distortion numbers as well...many reviewers have complained of distortion and port chuffing when pushed to those extra dB's they hold over the HSU and SVS.
The Rythmik is a full step down from all three in my humble opinion. The VTF-2 MK4 would be the matching competitor, again in my opinion. It can not perform overall with the PB-12.
I guess it is a great thing that we have choices.
post #63 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

And like I said before, you couldn't go wrong with any of your choices. I am sure you will enjoy your new sub. When is it due to be delivered?

Not sure, I didn't receive any shipping e-mails from SVS today...just an order confirmation e-mail.
I was hoping it would go out today. I'm guessing tomorrow. Hopefully they can get it to me within one business week for the weekend.
post #64 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse99 View Post

If you look at the value proposition, the EX on sale cannot be beat period - everyone has to make their own conclusions if the pros and cons outweigh the value factor

Agreed. Best 12" sub for under $800 when it's on sale
post #65 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I change my mind constantly as to which I would think I would like best if I had all three in the room. Depends on what rubric you grade these subs by. And I'm actually influenced by thinking I will eventually have dual subs. So what's best for that situation.

If you intend to go multiple subs and are building a setup for the long term, I would look at getting some sealed subs, depending on your room. The gradual low-end roll off from sealed could add up better to give you higher deep frequency output than if you went for ported subs. Think Hsu ULS-15, Rythmik F15, SVS SB13, multiples of those would negate the advantages of their ported brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Right now, I'm thinking the SVS because of the flat frequency curve and the low distortion. I agree that the EX has more output. However to get the EX fairly flat with an EQ, you'd lose a lot of that extra output from 30hz on up (unless room gain gave you a bunch of boost in the lower frequencies).

You don't lose the headroom from the Outlaw by EQing it, it is always there available to you. If you turn the volume up past its 20 hz limits, it will get louder, but just not at 20 hz. Also keep in mind that the Outlaw's FR is actually relatively flat, not as ruler flat as the PB12 but better than most subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

But I'm sure I'll change my mind again in another few weeks. And no. I will not be buying an SVS or HSU if I go dual, but another EX

Get two of those, set them up for front-firing and run them in max output mode is my advice, my god will those things pound, just brutal bass. And the closer you position them to you, the better it gets. Play some Drum'n'bass or dubstep with the subs running 6 db hot, that is an experience to behold, bass nirvana.
post #66 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Get two of those, set them up for front-firing and run them in max output mode is my advice, my god will those things pound, just brutal bass. And the closer you position them to you, the better it gets. Play some Drum'n'bass or dubstep with the subs running 6 db hot, that is an experience to behold, bass nirvana.

Reminds me of my teenage years with a 6 cu ft sealed box in my trunk with two JL 15w3's on a Comp. Zapco amp. (132dB)
post #67 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

The driver specs don't seem all that great on the FV12....but that isn't everything.
Anyone have some clean SPL sweep numbers for that sub?
If I had a hard $500 cap and wanted to buy now instead of waiting for the next LFM-1 EX sale, the FV12 would be the ticket most likely.

The FV12 can't quite get as loud as the VTF3 or LFM-1 EX, but it can pound, no doubt about that. I don't know about it's driver specs, but given the output limitations of the PB12, I wouldn't be surprised if the FV12 could at least match it. On the other hand, I think the SVS may have an advantage at the bottom end of its tuning point, 20 hz, although the FV12 isn't too shabby for 20 hz either.
post #68 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Get two of those, set them up for front-firing and run them in max output mode is my advice, my god will those things pound, just brutal bass. And the closer you position them to you, the better it gets. Play some Drum'n'bass or dubstep with the subs running 6 db hot, that is an experience to behold, bass nirvana.

Yeah. It's going to be a while for me. I have to save up for braces from the orthodontist (not for me). Man does that cost a lot, as much as a whole home audio setup (lol).
post #69 of 163
shadyJ,

One thing that bares mentioning: you do lose headroom when you EQ a sub, especially if you boost down low. You'll mostly lose amplifier headroom. Perhaps I misunderstood the context of your comment regarding the Outlaw, but what I just said is true and applies to any subwoofer. When you EQ you do limit headroom.
post #70 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

shadyJ,

One thing that bares mentioning: you do lose headroom when you EQ a sub, especially if you boost down low. You'll mostly lose amplifier headroom. Perhaps I misunderstood the context of your comment regarding the Outlaw, but what I just said is true and applies to any subwoofer. When you EQ you do limit headroom.

+1

If I boost 20hz on the EX, which has a CEA1010 max output of 102.1 in ME, enough to make it loud enough to level with 31.5 hz, then when the EX reaches it's CEA1010 limit of 102.1, then 31.5hz is at 102.1. So the limit of the frequency response when it's flattened by an EQ is whatever the limit is of the frequency which has the lowest limit in the frequency range. On the SVS, the lowest limit from 20hz on up is 20hz at 103.2. So with an EQ'd flat response from 20hz on up--ignoring room acoustic effects--the SVS has equal output.
post #71 of 163
Appears that if you're going to EQ an Outlaw sub, you're better off buying an SVS. Why dink with the EX and spend more - I'd just spend more money buying a better bells and whistles sub
post #72 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

shadyJ,

One thing that bares mentioning: you do lose headroom when you EQ a sub, especially if you boost down low. You'll mostly lose amplifier headroom. Perhaps I misunderstood the context of your comment regarding the Outlaw, but what I just said is true and applies to any subwoofer. When you EQ you do limit headroom.

Nuance, my understanding is that boosting a certain frequency will diminish headroom on other frequencies only if they are being played simultaneously. correct me if I am wrong on this point.
post #73 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The FV12 can't quite get as loud as the VTF3 or LFM-1 EX, but it can pound, no doubt about that. I don't know about it's driver specs, but given the output limitations of the PB12, I wouldn't be surprised if the FV12 could at least match it. On the other hand, I think the SVS may have an advantage at the bottom end of its tuning point, 20 hz, although the FV12 isn't too shabby for 20 hz either.

I don't know much about the FV12, which is perhaps its greatest weakness. The Hsu VTF3, the Outlaw LFM-1 EX, and the PB12-NSD are all well known and measured quantities.

I would be impressed personally if the FV12 could match the new PB12's output vs distortion though, especially on the low end. Looking at the sine sweeps vs distortion of the PB12-NSD, they look darned near Ultra-like at the 105dB marker from 32Hz on up, which is no small feat for a sub that's much less costly. And in terms of low end output, the CEA2010 results of the PB12 speak for themselves, with greater output at 20Hz than the larger, heavier EX can manage, with half the distortion to boot.
post #74 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Nuance, my understanding is that boosting a certain frequency will diminish headroom on other frequencies only if they are being played simultaneously. correct me if I am wrong on this point.

That is also how I understood it, yes (I could be wrong). This happens more often than you'd think, though. However, boosting can vastly limit amplifier headroom, and if said amp clips hard that signal will be sent to the subwoofer which could result in damage. You're basically reducing headroom regarding all things subwoofer, not just the frequency response.
post #75 of 163
I'd be interested in reading about anybody's experiences with getting a new PB12-NSD to bottom out, or to misbehave, generally.
post #76 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I'd be interested in reading about anybody's experiences with getting a new PB12-NSD to bottom out, or to misbehave, generally.

Won't the limiter prevent that? It reaches a point where it won't go higher in volume because of the limiter, but if the limiter is set correctly, you can't actually bottom it out. Ricci talks about the limiter in his review.
post #77 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


Won't the limiter prevent that? It reaches a point where it won't go higher in volume because of the limiter, but if the limiter is set correctly, you can't actually bottom it out. Ricci talks about the limiter in his review.

Correct, though that only applies to subs with limiters. I don't know if a limiter prevents amp clipping, though.
post #78 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Won't the limiter prevent that? It reaches a point where it won't go higher in volume because of the limiter, but if the limiter is set correctly, you can't actually bottom it out. Ricci talks about the limiter in his review.

post #79 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I don't know if a limiter prevents amp clipping, though.

Depends on what you mean by that statement.

I wouldn't expect it should present any great technical challenge for the engineers at SVS to set up their DSP limiters to ensure that not only do their drivers not bottom, but that their amplifiers don't run out of steam as well.

On the other hand, you are still technically clipping the signal, although perhaps in a more acceptable way.
post #80 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post


On the other hand, you are still technically clipping the signal, although perhaps in a more acceptable way.

^ This was my line of thinking.
post #81 of 163
So it is true, all Outlaw orders were pushed to March. Now the question is VTF3 MK4 or the SVS
post #82 of 163
All 3 are pretty similar in output. I've only heard the hsu and outlaw. Very impressed with Hsu's service. Enough said from me lol
post #83 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

So it is true, all Outlaw orders were pushed to March. Now the question is VTF3 MK4 or the SVS

Flip a coin. Very similar performing products, great companies, great customer service. I just bought an HSU sub but have owned SVS products in the past and have nothing but good things to say about either company.
post #84 of 163
Just pulled the trigger on the HSU
post #85 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

Just pulled the trigger on the HSU

Congrats. The great thing about HSU is they go the extra mile. Once you receive it, don't be afraid to reachout to them regarding placement and different tuning options. They spent about 20 mins on the phone with me discussing my different placement options and how to get the most out of the sub.
post #86 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

On the other hand, you are still technically clipping the signal, although perhaps in a more acceptable way.

I'd disagree. Clipping has a fairly speciric meaning: THD in excess of whatever your chosen threshold is (0.1%, 1%, sometimes 3% for tube amps . . . )

A limiter simply turns down the input signal, like a volume control, or like the compressors used in recording and mastering music. That doesn't clip the signal, in the technical sense. It does change it, though.
post #87 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

So it is true, all Outlaw orders were pushed to March. Now the question is VTF3 MK4 or the SVS

Same situation here.

BTW, as I am new to these league of subs (coming from an 8" energy from 2001)...would these subs be too much for a 3400^3 room?

Reason I ask is the HSU site shows the VTF3 for "huge rooms"...while the VTF2 for my sized room. I will be 100% movies, with the sub next to the couch (in the center of the room unfortunately), with energy take 5's and a Denon 2112ci.

Thanks!!
Paul
post #88 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonpa View Post

BTW, as I am new to these league of subs (coming from an 8" energy from 2001)...would these subs be too much for a 3400^3 room?

IMO: Nope!
post #89 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

I'd disagree. Clipping has a fairly speciric meaning: THD in excess of whatever your chosen threshold is

Well I disagree with your disagreement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clippin..._processing%29

Quote:


Clipping is a form of distortion that limits a signal once it exceeds a threshold.

In this case, the threshold exceeded is simply the maximum output designated by the engineers at SVS; since the limiter obviously limits the signal after the threshold is exceeded, the signal is clipped.

EDIT:
Also, regarding clipping amplifiers:

http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

Quote:


First, we need to know what overload clipping actually is. An amplifier is said to be clipping when the output signal attempts to exceed the supply voltage. Since the supply voltage defines the absolute maximum peak output voltage from the amp, the signal will be clipped or 'cut off' if the input signal level is too high. For normal testing purposes, a sinewave is the most common test signal used, but this only tells part of the story.
post #90 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonpa View Post

Same situation here.

BTW, as I am new to these league of subs (coming from an 8" energy from 2001)...would these subs be too much for a 3400^3 room?

Reason I ask is the HSU site shows the VTF3 for "huge rooms"...while the VTF2 for my sized room. I will be 100% movies, with the sub next to the couch (in the center of the room unfortunately), with energy take 5's and a Denon 2112ci.

Thanks!!
Paul

Give HSU a call and discuss with them. If your sub is going to be nearfield, the VTF-2 may be fine.
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