Is "full calibration" worth it vs. calibration disks

Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

Originally Posted by airscapes


There is some interesting reading on this site that may be of interest as to calibrations why/how etc http://www.tlvexp.ca/

Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

Originally Posted by RBFilms

I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly recommended.

I can get very close to ideal if not spot-on with the Disney WOW Disc when it comes to the following adjustments:

* Brightness
* Contrast
* Aspect Ration
* Color
* Tint
* Sharpness

However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.

Also, I do not recommend Auto anything ... including Audyssey for Audio or Auto Video Calibration of any kind. Nothing "Auto" is a substitute for a talented calibration tech that knows what they are doing.

You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...

Originally Posted by Dmiraclejr

Is it worth doing a full calibration on a projector via software such as Calman, etc. versus just using a calibration disk such as Disney WOW? I know it probably depends on who you ask but If I do the full calibration I would be interested in using the auto calibration software which would require the purchase of a video processor such as the Dvdo Duo or such. Maybe I should just be looking at the manual procedure to get the price down?

I figure the full DIY auto calibration vs the Disney WOW price difference would be about $1600 vs $30 or so. Is the full that much better than the disk? How far does the disk get you? 50%, 75%, 90%? I guess I am trying to estimate the marginal return on picture quality between the two.

Thanks you any replies.

Originally Posted by rocketlaw

Just be warned guys. Even if you do not think it is worth it now, once you see a calibrated display in your home you won't be able to go back to non-calibrated display that easily.

Originally Posted by ZandarKoad

I'm very very particular about my work, and what I do for other people. I never let "good enough" slide, except when it comes to my own personal entertainment. I have very low standards when it comes to my own comfort and enjoyment - I'd rather be uncomfortable and make make money than be in comfort and spend it. I don't own a TV. Not a single one, haven't for years and years... But I've got three laptops, two of which are dedicated to making money. One is for the wife.

With that in mind, I finally calibrated my laptop - my low end, 17" Toshiba screen... From that moment on, nearly every TV I saw irritated me immensely because I knew what it COULD look like. I saw the blue tint in all whites, I saw the sun burnt faces and neon green grass. I saw the cut off darks and whites, etc. It's true - once you've grown accustomed to a well calibrated device, you can't go back.

Originally Posted by RBFilms

I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like recommended.


However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.



You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...

Originally Posted by RBFilms

I can tell you this from experience ... and as a Producer / Director of Calibration Discs and the Disney WOW Disc.

If you have an average HDTV Panel like the 42" Panasonic ST-30 in my Guest room ... which only me about $850 ... then a Calibration Disc makes sense and does a great job. In this case, I can get excellent results since the calibration controls are limited on this TV. I can get the HDTV Panel close enough to where I would not spend $400 for a pro calibrator to come in and tweak the HDTV Panel any more than what I can do with a disc.

However, if you have a very good PDP. LED, OLED Display or Projector with good calibration controls, like my Pioneer KRP-500M and my Pioneer KRP-600M, then a professional calibration is highly recommended.

I can get very close to ideal if not spot-on with the Disney WOW Disc when it comes to the following adjustments:

* Brightness
* Contrast
* Aspect Ration
* Color
* Tint
* Sharpness

However, a GREAT HDTV Panel or Projector will always benefit from a professional, experienced calibration technician.

However, let me define professional by my standards as a Producer / Director who needs to have reference quality picture & sound for my job.

A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector.

Also, I do not recommend Auto anything ... including Audyssey for Audio or Auto Video Calibration of any kind. Nothing "Auto" is a substitute for a talented calibration tech that knows what they are doing.

You get a guy or gal like that to work on a a very high quality Display or Projector, then yes ... it is worth it.

Sorry for the long winded response to what is really a short answer in the end. Again, this is my opinion for what it is worth.

Keep your trigger fingers off the flamethrowers please...

Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U

This brings the question as to what the definition of an average display is versus a great display is. If you are referring to price alone, then I don't agree since even cheap TVs like my LG 42LK450 can benefit greatly from a full calibration because they have all the necessary picture controls, not just 2-pt grayscale (like most other entry-level displays and even some pricier displays). I referring to the inclusion of 10-pt grayscale/gamma and CMS controls that work properly (or well enough) and have sufficient range to dial in color and gamma beyond human perception with real program material. Even on those TVs that only offer 2-pt grayscale, color accuracy can be improved considerably unless the display is close out of the box to begin with, such as with some THX-certified displays. So, as far as I see it, what determines whether a display is a good candidate for a full calibration is:

1. How close is grayscale/gamma and gamut out of the box after using a calibration disc?

2. What picture controls exist to dial in these three areas and do they work well enough/properly and have sufficient range? How extensive are the controls (2-pt grayscale only or also 10-pt and CMS)?

3. Do you use the display for reference viewing like with DVD and BD sources or is it mainly used for watching cable/satellite/OTA and/or gaming?

Originally Posted by Phase700B

I personally can appreciate both and would only hope there should never be any condescending dialog (flaming) under the guise of "educating and guiding". That should be left for an individual to decide and allow both calibration and media assisted settings as means to obtain good picture quality that is closer to an ideal. The difference is in degree.

Originally Posted by RBFilms

This is a Forum...flamethrowers are always lit and ready 24/7 to torch anyone with an opinion different than one's own ...!! I am used to it after years on this forum.

The worst was HD-DVD verses BD ...

... I supported BOTH formats and realized financial loss in the end for doing so ... which I knew would happen However, despite supporting both formats, I still look like Darkman after that ... I have to wear bandages over my face to go out in public these days...

Gee, I hope I don't get flamed now for having a sense of humor about being flamed..!

Originally Posted by RBFilms

I agree, if you have the money and it is your primary display, professional calibration is the cat's meow.

However, let me clarify my statement in case it is being misunderstood.

I did NOT define "great display" by price .... in fact, I did not define it at all outside of saying my Pioneer KRP-500M and KRP-600M are great displays and definitely worth the investment with respect to a professional calibration. Anyone who owns these displays probably already knows that.

There are many factors that contribute to making a display great. Cost does not always have to be one of them.

What I did say in fact ... is that for me ... spending half the price of an HDTV for a pro calibration would typically not be worth the cost when it comes to my Panasonic ST-30.

Fortunately for me, my Panasonic ST-30 is just a Guest Bedroom TV and it is NOT my primary display.

However, I will admit my Panasonic IS professionally calibrated because it made sense to do this and was more cost effective when D-Nice was here recently taking care of my Pioneers.

Also, I do not touch Gamma or Advanced CMS Controls when using a disc. I do not own the $15,000 to $20,000 worth of gear required to do a great job on my displays using advanced controls. I leave that all up to the Pros with the gear and experience.

For me, the Panasonic ST-30 does not have anywhere near the black levels or color accuracy or the Pioneer displays. I would rate the Panasonic ST-30 as a Good Display not a Great display. However, I am spoiled, so maybe I am not the norm as far as consumers / enthusiasts are concerned.

Last but not last, I have seen great Professional Calibrations and not so great Professional calibrations ... and even what I would go so far as to call unacceptable professional calibrations. There are differences and one should be aware of this when spending that much money for a professional calibration.

Originally Posted by Phase700B

Which is why after spending a few hundred $$$ on two different colorimeters I won't be spending any more money on a "good" but not "great" LG 42LD550. Nor pay hundreds more for maybe getting a good calibration.

The law of diminishing returns would seem to well apply here.

And , no, I won't buy yet another meter and/or a photospectrometer to verify any profiling. On mid and low priced TVs ($400-$1,200 in various sizes) using a media assisted disc for settings and even 2-point gray scale correction results in very good picture quality when viewing actual program material. I sadly find more variation in Blu-ray, DVD and broadcast program material than media assisted settings vs. calibration on the forementioned class of TVs.


And I have added the Disney WOW disc to AVS HD709, AVIA, and DVE as media setting assistance. So far, I have not noticed any drift in the media discs, low IRE reading issues, or other stability problems.


Previously posted:

"A professional (in my opinion) will typically have a VERY good meter ($8,000 to $15,000 ) and a great Pattern Generator ($1,200 to $5,000) and CalMan Software ($2,500) and a lot of experience (5+ years) and have worked on NUMEROUS Panels and will have mastered calibration to the point of being considered an artist (basically, NOT the Geek Squad guy) and he will charge $400 for each panel and even more for a projector."

Originally Posted by Phase700B

I sadly find more variation in Blu-ray, DVD and broadcast program material than media assisted settings vs. calibration on the forementioned class of TVs.


And I have added the Disney WOW disc to AVS HD709, AVIA, and DVE as media setting assistance. So far, I have not noticed any drift in the media discs, low IRE reading issues, or other stability problems.

Originally Posted by avguygeorge

Ok,yes, everybody has an opinion--most all good ones herein.
I personally think calibration got its start in the late 80's and into the 90's even more so.
Well back then every set needed to be converged---Now everything is auto and much better than a calibration could have gotten those older crt sets. Boosting the colors color nowadays doesn't do the damage it did on the ole crt's. Esp. the blooming of old.
However now a days we have so much over scan--in that most sets loose picture size just to loose "picture noise" top and bottom.
I would also think the pace at which technology advances most of us will be wanting to acquiring some of that new stuff and the calibration cost has to be factored in.

Originally Posted by ZandarKoad

The damage of overscan is not the 1 to 4 % you loose around the edges. (Although that is bad too.) It's the 20% or more you loose in effective pixel count because the display is no longer able to map pixels 1 to 1. One article I read said that at least 95% of consumers are only seeing 720p no matter if their display, cables, or source are 1080p thanks to overscan.

Originally Posted by ZandarKoad

The damage of overscan is not the 1 to 4 % you loose around the edges. (Although that is bad too.) It's the 20% or more you loose in effective pixel count because the display is no longer able to map pixels 1 to 1. One article I read said that at least 95% of consumers are only seeing 720p no matter if their display, cables, or source are 1080p thanks to overscan.

Originally Posted by RBFilms

Personally, I cannot watch my HDTV if it is not Bit for Bit...the image loses quality in the translation.