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Need help with multi-room A/V from Denon AVR-3312

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I wasn't sure if this is the correct sub-forum, or if I should've posted this in the amp/receiver forum.

Here is my situation. I have a completed home theater room in my basement with the following set up:
Epson 8700 projector
Denon AVR-3312 receiver
PS3 (for games & blu-ray)
Satellite TV receiver (HD, PVR)
5.1 speaker arrangement

The PS3 and the Sat box connect via HDMI to the 3312. The 3312 outputs video via "HDMI 1" to the projector.

Here is a side-project I wanted to do:
During construction I ran dual cat6 to an adjacent room in the basement with the intent to run HDMI baluns to a second TV in that room. (I've actually bought the TV. Not that it matters what it is but I got a Samsung LN32D450, which is to be wall mounted.)

I was hoping I could use the 2nd HDMI out on the receiver to send audio and video to this 2nd TV.

I've always known you couldn't use both HDMI outputs simultaneously for different viewing at the same time. But I thought you can at least configure the two HDMI outputs differently, thinking you could use one or the other (or display the same thing to both, if you really wanted to do that... dual-monitor display?)

To sum it up, what I would like to be able to do is:
HDMI 1 (Monitor 1) = 1080p video to projector, audio to amp
HDMI 2 (Monitor 2) = 720p video to TV, audio to TV

The thought being I would use the TV in the other room sometimes, instead of using the full blown theater room. (Not both at the same time obviously)

Is it possible to do what I intend? The Denon manual seems rather confusing to me on the subject of HDMI control, etc. It's not really telling me what I want to know, at least in terms that I understand.

Thanks!
post #2 of 23
The 720p set will likely force the source to send 720p instead of 1080p, whether it does that all the time or only when the 2nd display is powered on will depend on how everyone involved implemented the HDMI handshaking...

So it will most likely work, but may cause some or all sources to send 720p (max) - possibly all the time (until the 2nd display is disconnected).

Jeff
post #3 of 23
For 2 weeks now same issue..

Batpig has converted the manual to english, it has helped with the terrible manual. May be able to gleen some wisdom.

I pulled an hdmi 50' to a Fujitsu plasma vision and got lost signal. Added monoprice extender and was able to boost signal.

But still having issue with audio.
post #4 of 23
The way I had to do it.

On the Receiver turn HDMI Control on.

Before you turn of the receiver set it to monitor 2.

Now the Receiver will act a a pass-through. The Receiver does not need to be on.

Only issue is if you want to switch outputs you need to turn on the receiver then switch to a different input, then turn it off.

The reason for doing this is because I could not find the IR command that switched the sound from receiver to TV.

hope this helps.
post #5 of 23
I called Denon support tonight.

Setup:
Scientific Atlanta cable Hdmi
Xbox
Apple tv
Epson projector
Plasma in second room with 30' Hdmi
Russound cas 44 whole house

Video In
Apple tv Hdmi 1/optical audio
Xbox component/video optical audio
Scientific atl. / 3 analog audio

Hdmi 1 out to Epson
Hdmi 2 out to Plasma

Audio
Xbox optical
Apple tv optical
Cable analo
post #6 of 23
[quote="Hub639"]I called Denon support tonight.

Setup:
Scientific Atlanta cable Hdmi
Xbox
Apple tv
Epson projector
Plasma in second room with 30' Hdmi
Russound cas 44 whole house

Video In
Apple tv Hdmi 1/optical audio
Xbox component/video optical audio
Scientific atl. / 3 analog audio

Hdmi 1 out to Epson
Hdmi 2 out to Plasma

Audio
Xbox optical
Apple tv optical
Cable analog

I asked support how to pass audio to zone2 through Hdmi. His response " what you need to understand is Hdmi 2 and zone 2 are two different things. Hdmi 1 and 2 are simultaneous that the only way audio can pass through zone 2 is via analog. When I asked why Hdmi audio worked via pass through, he claimed it was two completely different methods.

I have read this in the other posts, but just find it hard to accept that hdmi can only be used for video. What a waste as I already had a cat5 balun setup component. Have a set of speakers setup in "zone 2" sending analog out on the rear cable outputs. My plasma has separate speakers attached my the plan is to try zone 2 pre outs via analog to the tv speakers.

Hope this helps the 4 week learning curve has been worth it so far. Still trying to clean up signal on Xbox.
post #7 of 23
why not just get a hdmi splitter then? why rely on the denon to do all the processing?
post #8 of 23
[quote=Hub639;21711727]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub639 View Post

I have read this in the other posts, but just find it hard to accept that hdmi can only be used for video. What a waste as I already had a cat5 balun setup component. Have a set of speakers setup in "zone 2" sending analog out on the rear cable outputs. My plasma has separate speakers attached my the plan is to try zone 2 pre outs via analog to the tv speakers.

HDMI output 1&2 are meant to serve the same setup, not different rooms. The fact that it's called "2" has nothing to do with Zone 2. Call it HDMI Purple instead. HDMI Purple may very well be video-only, as it's really intended for use in the same room, with the assumption that the speakers are hooked to the receiver anyway. The other likely possibility is that the source is sending an audio format (DD5.1 likely) that the plasma doesn't support, but the Denon is preventing the HDMI "compatibility" feature from downshifting the source's audio to 2-channel PCM...

Zone 2 is a completely analog path. So you need analog audio inputs for the analog zone 2 output.

If you want to run a separate video source in the other room, use either an HDMI splitter on a single source, or use an HDMI matrix switch. Hook one output from the matrix to the Denon (and then to the projector). The other matrix output goes to your plasma. Now you can watch sources independently, and you'll have audio.

Jeff
post #9 of 23
I am pretty sure that the 32" tv will accept a 1080p signal as well. So your different resolution ideas are moot.
post #10 of 23
[quote=Hub639;21711727]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub639 View Post

I have read this in the other posts, but just find it hard to accept that hdmi can only be used for video. What a waste as I already had a cat5 balun setup component. Have a set of speakers setup in "zone 2" sending analog out on the rear cable outputs. My plasma has separate speakers attached my the plan is to try zone 2 pre outs via analog to the tv speakers.

his sounds like a wierd way to try and power your tv speakers. Does your plasma power these speakers on it's own? If yes, then the HDMI signal should get audio on the tv.

[quote=Hub639;21711727]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub639 View Post

Hope this helps the 4 week learning curve has been worth it so far. Still trying to clean up signal on Xbox.

This is why there are professionals. It has nothing to do with selling individual pieces but designing and installing a system that works.
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub639 View Post

For 2 weeks now same issue..

Batpig has converted the manual to english, it has helped with the terrible manual. May be able to gleen some wisdom.

I pulled an hdmi 50' to a Fujitsu plasma vision and got lost signal. Added monoprice extender and was able to boost signal.

But still having issue with audio.

What issue?

Have you tested the 50' HDMI cable on something that you know that works?
post #12 of 23
I am in the same boat as AP. I have PS3, WD TV, DVR connected to my Pioneer 1120K AVR via HDMI. I bought 2nd LED HD TV for bedroom. I would like to do the setup to access my existing gears via HDMI on my 2nd TV.

does anybody has proven HDMI matrix switch setup? I would like to explore that opportunity. I am not much concern about 5.1 audio on 2nd TV.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
What's the difference between a splitter and a matrix switch?
post #14 of 23
splitter - splits the signal out of the receiver so the image is the same on both displays.

matrix - has multiple inputs for the sources and 2 or more outputs so different sources can be displayed on different displays.

splitter = inexpensive
matrix = expensive
post #15 of 23
Good thought with splinter/matrix...with plasma speakers they are separate from tv.

Still have a couple of choices via audio.

and still perplexed that hdmi (purple) (2) audio works with pass through, but not with amp..

Thanks
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub639 View Post

and still perplexed that hdmi (purple) (2) audio works with pass through, but not with amp..

I think I coined a new term...

Pass-through means just that, the AVR gets out of the way and acts like it's not there at all. Which perhaps could be a solution, but you'll give up any on-screen video and any video processing. And the pass-through means the HDMI common-denominator limitation is going to raise it's head...

Jeff
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Well, pass-through or not, all I wanted to be able to do was utilize my existing PS3 and HD satbox with this secondary TV in the other room, as well as with the primary display in the HT room.

I'd rather not have to buy separate components (another blu-ray player, etc.) for the other room.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Kelly View Post

Well, pass-through or not, all I wanted to be able to do was utilize my existing PS3 and HD satbox with this secondary TV in the other room, as well as with the primary display in the HT room.

I'd rather not have to buy separate components (another blu-ray player, etc.) for the other room.

Matrix switch.

I assume you're using the PS3 for Blu-Ray? Will your controller reach from the other room?

Other choice if you can use component video from the PS3 at the same time as HDMI (not sure...), would be use use a very inexpensive component video switch and balun set to drive the 2nd room. Run component video and analog audio from each device in parallel (not to the receiver, just to the switch). The a balun set (about $60) to send it over cat5 to the other room. That also avoids all the HDMI issues.

I've used this component video switch, which is also IR controllable, with good success. Oh, yeah, you'll need some solution for your remote control, no matter what you do...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Jeff
post #19 of 23
^^^ I have that Component Vid switch too. Works like a champ.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Kelly View Post

Well, pass-through or not, all I wanted to be able to do was utilize my existing PS3 and HD satbox with this secondary TV in the other room, as well as with the primary display in the HT room.

I'd rather not have to buy separate components (another blu-ray player, etc.) for the other room.

You should be able to do this.
1. Make sure the HDMI control is ON (page 71)
2. Now you have set the STANBY SOURCE. If you want the LAST HDMI used when you go into stanby or a certain HDMI input terminal 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 (page 112) I don't think you will be able to switch between 2 devices in Stanby mode.
3. Now I think you have to set the CONTROL MONITOR to monitor 2 if that's what you TV is connected to. (page 112 as well)
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
Update -

Got my TV installed on the wall, terminated the dual Cat6 on both ends, installed the HDMI extender and short HDMI patch cords at each end, and. It Works! I can get audio and video to the TV in the other room.

However, I need to a) go in to the 3312's menu and switch HDMI audio from AMP to TV, and b) leave the receiver turned on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

I am pretty sure that the 32" tv will accept a 1080p signal as well. So your different resolution ideas are moot.

Turns out you were right. I don't know if my set (advertised as a 720p set) is actually displaying 1080p, or just merely accepting the signal. But when I did the TV setup routine it stated on the screen 1080p and asked for confirmation that I can see it (wording something to that effect). So no problems there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Will your controller reach from the other room?
...
you'll need some solution for your remote control, no matter what you do...

Turns out I'm in luck. Both the PS3 bluetooth blu-ray remote and my Sat Box (Bell ExpressVu 9241, by Motorola) remote both seem to operate fine in the other room despite being separated by a wall. So for the time being it seems I don't have to worry about any funky remote solutions.

I haven't tried the following, in these two replies yet:

Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

The way I had to do it.

On the Receiver turn HDMI Control on.
Before you turn of the receiver set it to monitor 2.
Now the Receiver will act a a pass-through. The Receiver does not need to be on.
Only issue is if you want to switch outputs you need to turn on the receiver then switch to a different input, then turn it off.
The reason for doing this is because I could not find the IR command that switched the sound from receiver to TV.

hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabra View Post

You should be able to do this.
1. Make sure the HDMI control is ON (page 71)
2. Now you have set the STANBY SOURCE. If you want the LAST HDMI used when you go into stanby or a certain HDMI input terminal 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 (page 112) I don't think you will be able to switch between 2 devices in Stanby mode.
3. Now I think you have to set the CONTROL MONITOR to monitor 2 if that's what you TV is connected to. (page 112 as well)

If I'm not mistaken HDMI Control is still OFF on my receiver right now, so that might be the reason why my receiver has to be turned on in order to get picture (to either the projector [monitor 1] or the TV [monitor 2]. I will investigate this further, but may not be a big deal other than conserving power, because it seems like I'm going to have to at least turn the receiver on and off to either toggle the source, or switch between the two HDMI outs.

What does seem clear though is the HDMI Audio Out selection is in a separate independent sub-menu from where you select monitor 1 or 2, so unfortunately I can't set one for AMP' and one for TV' like I would have liked. (Unless I missed something?)

Anyway, I'm just relieved so far that a) the HDMI extender (monoprice PID 6532) actually works as advertised, and b) I can use my existing components with the TV in the other room, as I intended.

The only loose end would be whether I can streamline the setup/switch-up between using the HT room and using the other TV.

Thanks for everyone's help thus far.
post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Ok, everything WAS working fine, but now there's a new problem that's cropped up.

There is something wrong with the audio when watching blu-rays on the TV. I can hear the music and sound effects tracks just fine, but the dialogue is not really there. I can barely, faintly hear it sometimes, and other times not at all. This is only when watching blu-rays on monitor 2. Watching the Sat Box on monitor 2 is fine. And watching blu-rays on monitor 1 (the projector/main home theater setup) is working normally too.

I'm not sure if I buggered something on the TV settings, or something in the Denon receiver menus. Part of me is thinking the problem is not on the TV end since the satellite programs sound fine and its only when watching blu-rays (from the PS3). However everything was working perfectly the other day, regardless what source I was watching on Monitor 2

Any ideas?
post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Kelly View Post

Ok, everything WAS working fine, but now there's a new problem that's cropped up.

There is something wrong with the audio when watching blu-rays on the TV. I can hear the music and sound effects tracks just fine, but the dialogue is not really there. I can barely, faintly hear it sometimes, and other times not at all. This is only when watching blu-rays on monitor 2. Watching the Sat Box on monitor 2 is fine. And watching blu-rays on monitor 1 (the projector/main home theater setup) is working normally too.

I'm not sure if I buggered something on the TV settings, or something in the Denon receiver menus. Part of me is thinking the problem is not on the TV end since the satellite programs sound fine and its only when watching blu-rays (from the PS3). However everything was working perfectly the other day, regardless what source I was watching on Monitor 2

Any ideas?

Solved it!

There was something wrong with the audio settings on my PS3. Only one of the PCM settings was checked off as a possible format. The TV obviously didn't like that. Once I checked a bunch of the other boxes, sound to the TV was normal again.

This was weird because the PS3 is the one device I hadn't fiddled with recently, which is why I didn't suspect it. I only found it by process of elimination. (I don't know how the sound settings got screwed up.)
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