How much is enough? Point of diminishing returns.

Is 3K the max for now or period? What can you do out and demo? I believe if your going to spend that much, you better get what you love to hear everyday.

Have you considered which AVR you would like to have?

Or are you asking how you should spread out the 3K for now?

Is the room a dedicated theater space closed to the rest of the house? Also very important IMHO, how will the sound system be used? All theater, some music, background music, high resolution music, gaming, TV?

I think if I was looking at a serious music rig, I might look at a full range Tower stereo pair in your budget range. You can always work on completing the system later, and you will have an excellent starting point for quality music reproduction, and front stage for movies.

If the system is almost strictly for theater, I'd look at speakers designed for that appication (high sensitivity/output) that will effortlessly reproduce the extreme dynamic requirements of movie tracks.

There is no "one size fits all" answer for the correct speakers to fit the needs of every application (IMHO of course).

Jay

Square rooms are tough on subs. You might be better off with two subs to even out the response, like a pair of FV12s, rather than one bigger sub. Also, you might benefit from a receiver that will Eq at least one sub, like something with Audyssey MultEq XT from the Denon XX12 line, maybe a 1712 or 2112. If you could get into a receiver with XT32 that would be even better because it will Eq 2 subs, but a lot more money.

The room size you mentioned will be fine with one nice sub and some large bookshelf speakers.

You would have the bookshelf take care of the highs and mids, while the subs would take care of the low-end. Going this path you would be saving some money and able to get a little better bookshelf speaker set. If you buy towers and sub, it's like buying the lowend twice.

Kind of a slippery slope recommending something I've not personally heard, but it sounds to me like maybe the Elemental Designs cinema series would fit your needs, and budget. They have been well reviewed on AVS by a few owners.

They also carry a respected line of subs, and have package deals that would get the job done in your budget. Personally, I'd pass on two subs for now, it might be just fine if you get the placement right. Best of luck!

http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_141

Jay

2 Rythmik FV12's would be $1000. With no sub eq and a square room I think you would be well served with two smaller subs. The Rythmik also has the benefit of a servo. I agree with other posters that the room is small enough for one, but I have read many times that a square room usually gets you some big nulls which is why I would go with two subs to even out the response.

Here is an Audiohaulics link to an article on sub placement and read what it says about square rooms:

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/sp...ent-guidelines

Since you still have a few months to go - you may still change
your mind a few times. A strong 5.1 bookshelf system, with one
real good ID sub can work, and raise you to a higher level than
you have now. There are some good and poor, $2000 and $3000
systems. However what will be enough for you, is hard to say.
The question is, how loud do you plan to play your system?

Sometimes to the critical ear, a little more can mean a lot. There are times when I did invest more,
it really did pay off. I would put Focal and NHT on a short list.

Kini62, like the rest of us, the "I wonder what" always poses a problem. What speakers and sub are you currently running?

Where are you located?

I use Axiomaudio.com speakers exclusively and am very pleased with the sound quality. They are always testing, enhancing, and growing their product line. They only sell direct from their Canadian factory, which helps keep their prices down. They just don't get a lot of love from this particular forum. I think that's probably due to some ancient reviews of some ancient product lines.

Anyway, in keeping in line with the subject of this particular thread, Axiom Audio will give you a decent bang for your buck.

Also, they have spent the last 10 years or so developing a new flagship model of speaker, which is to be announced in the coming months.

^ Corporate shill. Axiom speakers are nice though.

Myself personally, if it was *going to stay* mostly for TV/movies, then I wouldn't go chasing the more expensive model lines of speakers and would just settle for something I like the sound of and be happy.

But but but...

Initially I started out with my HT with that thought also... but rediscovered the joy of music listening once I started using my new HT system! Now I am 60-70% music and the rest TV/movies.

That lead me to upgrading my speakers to higher quality ones that do better with music and my initial set of speakers are sitting unused in storage. I would have been better off buying the better speakers for a start with hindsight.

So, will it stay mostly for TV/movies? Or like a lot of other people rediscover music and find yourself listening to more of it?

Oy, I'm in the same boat. I've improved my music listening tremendously in other areas of my home, and now my HT is disappointing (2 months ago it was great!). Since I've had the same speakers for about 8 years I am justifying this to start bugging avsforum with yet another "What can I buy for $2-3k" post in a couple of months.

LOL. Nope, not a shill. Just a pleased customer.

I'd say that once you've invested about 4 to 5 grand in a set up, you've reached a point where you literally have to invest more than 10 grand in order to even notice a significant difference in sound quality from that point on.. I just don't understand investing any more than that in an audio system.

The difference between a $1,000 and $2,000 5.1 setup would be pretty phenomenal though. That can be the difference between entry level, rinky-dink, satellite speakers and true bookshelf or monitor speakers. I'd even go as far to say a $2,000 setup done right can sound not twice, but three times as good as a $1,000 setup.

I start drawing the line with space and monetary budgets. Space is generally pretty fixed if you own the house. Look at speakers, subs that will integrate with your room well. Then, depending on budget, go one step up to satisfy the "what if" bugs. Also, look at the items that will give you the most value adds. Room treatments, dual subs, a solid front soundstage, all of these will give you a lot more enjoyment than some other features or upgrades. System cohesion and integration into your room should be prime factors in your decision. When looking at this, try to keep thinking of how the components will interact as a system, instead of just the individual parts. It is easy to start to bump the budget for one item (subs, and then feel the need t bump another area( speakers) which starts keeps you going down the rabbit hole (AVR/Amps, more bass traps, new seats/couch, etc). You have a good budget, with which you can build a very good system, keep that in mind as you put it all together.

Look at manufacturers who have good reviews, service and return policies since you can't audition the ones you are looking at. Some are better than others in this regard. As for sub's, dual if you can place them right are going to provide a better frequency response between seats than a single. I personally like having more than one spot to be able to sit in, and the bit of extra headroom that duals can offer, so I prefer 2 subs. Additionally, while I would call your room overly small, some of the larger, single subs may just take up too much floor space to be feasible, forcing you to place them in sub-optimal locations. With only 1638 cubic feet to pressurize though, smaller subs/sealed subs shouldn't be a problem. You may actually benefit from some nice room gain, helping beef up the response of smaller sealed subs.

You should be able to put together a pretty nice system for your budget.

Example:
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE for mains, CMT-340 SE C for the center, CMT-170 SE for the surrounds. This runs you about $1212 ($1118 + $94 S/H). Stands for the 340's can be had for $50-$140+ depending on what you want. The ones from Ascend give a tower speaker look and are sand fallible, giving a nice steady platform, but they are pricier than some of their competition. Ball park $125 for stands with the realization it can go up by $55 or so. Speaker total $1337 delivered, (+/- $55). Here you have dynamic, musical speakers, an identical front L/C/R (practically ideal), and very well matched surrounds. If you move to a larger room, these can go with you. At the same time, they are smaller than towers, allowing you some flexibility and not eating up all you rooms space.

Subs: Dual HSU VTF-2 MK 4's, if you can fit them, would run ~$1,164 delivered, or dual Rythmik FV12's should be ~$1,134 delivered (estimated shipping to NY as I don't know where you are). Or, if you need a smaller footprint, dual SVS SB12-NSD's in the standard finish will be $1,298 delivered.

That gives us a range of $2,416 (less expensive stands, dual Rythmik's) to $2,690 delivered (SVS subs, Ascend stands).

With your budget you still have room for some room treatments. For around $375 (delivered) you can get 2 ATS 36*24*4 panels for first reflection points, 2 ATS 24*48*4 open backed, corner mountable bass traps and 1 24*48*4 closed back panel for your back wall (behind the couch). The cost of course can go up from there, if you choose more panels, or custom fabrics, etc. But this gets you in the ball park.

Grand total: $2,791 to $3,065, delivered. With that you have a solid set of speakers, with matching L/C/R, timbre matched surrounds, dual subs, and a solid start on room treatments. For movies and TV, this system would rock pretty well, and it is also very good for music. Later on you could look at a new AVR, perhaps with room correction software such as Audyssey or ARC, which will still benefit from your effort on the speakers/subs/treatments. Additionally, it would start to cost a lot more to begin to get solid gains in performance over this. I think your $3k budget is pretty solid.


Why can't you take advantage of the trial period out of curiosity? Overseas?

some times i like to look outside the box heres an off the wall suggestion a pair of tekton pendragons for $2500+ship.these 54" towers are almost full range from lower 20hz to 30khz so you could do without the subs use phantom center and a pair of cheap rears. if nothing else you'd have some of the biggest and badest speakers on the island

5 bucks.