Official Samsung UNXXEH6000 Owners' Thread - Page 44

I just got the 55" today. I am loving it. Plugged in an external hard drive that I had some movies on and can't stop watching. My son played his xbox 360 on it also. I would recommend it. I will be purchasing a new dvd player with wi-fi so I can stream directly from the internet.

I have the 55" 6030 which is 3D. The IR glasses provided are of the el cheapo variety. I ordered a pair from Dimensional Optics which are about 50 bucks each. Vastly superior quality. Watched Prometheus and it was excellent. As a side note, regular DVDs up-converted by my Sony BDP-S590 look incredible, I thought my 51" RPTV 1080i did a great job of displaying content, but this TV blows that one away and I got rid of it after 6 faithful years of service.

Any thoughts on a washed out picture after using HDMIs settings? Is it possible I'm just not used to an LED coming from using a plasma for 3 years?

Does anyone have any recomendations on the settings to make the colors pop a tad more so everything doesn't look washed out?

Also, do you directv folks always keep it on 1080i or let native make the choice?
Edited by dperls - 12/11/12 at 11:43am

I posted this in the 5000 series thread already, but since it also involves the 6000 series I'll put it here as well.

A little background. I originally had a UN40ES6100 version TS02 but returned it because of the excessive flashlighting and nonuniformity, also the Eco lighting setting would cause the backlight to flicker. I exchanged it for a UN40EH5000 version HS03 and returned it because of blue ghosting during fast motion. I now own a UN40EH6000 version TS02.

I find 1080i with Film Mode set to Auto on all sources looks superior (doing the correct 5:5 pulldown I believe with 120Hz) to any use of Samsung's AMP. Try it with both but you can also see other posts of mine where I talk about it in more detail and encourage the experiment.

Idk I watch a lot of sports (NBA and NFL) and I prefer 16:9 over screen fit... Especially when watching games on ESPN or TNT... I see no difference in PQ?

You are losing the edges of the picture and effectively making the existing picture stretch over fewer pixels. If you're watching moving images it's harder to perceive, but if you play a DVD or BR and freeze an image, the change will be subtle but obvious. The test patterns are good for that reason, they show you where the true frame edge is and where you reframe with a loss when you select 16:9 or other modes.

A little background: Bought the UN40EH6030 from BB right before black friday. I was under the impression it was 120Hz but many revealed the panel is only a 60Hz. There is much discussion that it must be 120Hz to display 3d content. I don't understand much of the mumbo jumbo such as "pull down" or how to check in what ratio the TV is performing this "pull down." After talking to Samsung online several times (some telling me it's 240Hz, some telling me it's 60Hz but has the capabilities to convert to 120Hz. I don't know if any of that is possible...but I got a totally different response from this last conversation with Samsung. Can anyone let me know if this guy could possibly know what he is talking about? I was really hoping this was a 120Hz TV when I bought it...so hopefully someone can confirm these settings actually enable 120Hz.

Rod: Hi, thanks for reaching out to Samsung Technical Support. How can I help you today?
You: Hello, my TV is advertised as 120Hz, but in the service menu it says it only has a 60Hz panel. Why is this?
Rod: Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Rod: Let me check that one for you.
Rod: Please give me a minute or two.
You: sure thing
Rod: Thank you.
Rod: Thank you for patiently waiting.
Rod: The standard voltage for the tv is 60Hz.
Rod: And it can support up to 120Hz.
You: So it's not always running at 120Hz?
Rod: The standard for the U.S. is 60Hz, so it's not always 120Hz.
You: When does it use 120Hz? Doesn't it seem a bit misleading to sell this TV with consistent 120Hz if it is advertised as a 120Hz unit?
Rod: Ok. Are you pertaining for the refresh rate?
You: Yes.
Rod: I see. Because the voltage and refresh rate are measured in Hz.
Rod: Sorry for the misunderstanding.
You: How do TVs that always run in 120Hz differ?
Rod: Let me check that again for you. Please give me a minute or two.
You: Sure
Rod: Thank you.
Rod: Thank you for patiently waiting.
You: Sure
Rod: Yes. You can always run your Tv in 120HZ refresh rate, just go to Menu>Picture>PictureOptions> Then, set Digital Noise Filter and MPEG Noise filter to High.
You: How does this make it 120Hz?
Rod: Because it is the highest refresh rate for your tv.
Rod: That is why it advertised as 120Hz.
You: Interesting...so this would be the same as buying the UN40EH6000?
Rod: I see.
Rod: So, are you planning to get UN40EH6000 also?
You: Well, I want REAL 120Hz refresh rate
You: So should I keep the 6030, or get a 6000?
Rod: Ok. It's up to you. If you want much better viewing experience, go for UN40EH6000.
You: Why does that one have a better viewing experience?
Rod: Actually, the UN40EH6030F has Clear Motion Rate of 240. It means that you will experience sharp picture quality, even when you are watching fast-moving images like sports or action movies.

Doesn't make any sense to me, and that rep sounds very confused and seems to be spitting out marketing lines. I don't see how cranking up noise reduction will affect anything (apart from smearing the picture some).


From what I understand a plain 120hz refresh rate will have no benefit over a 60hz LCD. It will only only appear different from a 60hz refresh rate if it either inserts a black frame (darkens the picture) or interpolates a new frame (auto motion plus). If it does neither of those things and just doubles the input frame and displays it twice, I don't think it will appear any different from a 60hz set because it will just sample-and-hold the frame the entire length still, and you won't see any break up between the duplicated frames.

So if the 6030 actually had a 120hz refresh rate but no frame interpolation processing or black frame insertion (meaning it just doubled the input frames), it would appear the same as a 60hz set even if it was actually 120hz.

That could be why they say its only 60hz in 2d mode. Without additional processing (black or interpolated frame insertion) 120hz would be indistinguishable from 60hz. The 120hz would only come into play when 3D was displayed.


That doesn't explain why the 6030 identifies as a 60hz panel in the service menu. It could possibly be that the 60hz/120hz only denotes whether the TV has 120hz processing or not. They may not care to distinguish a set that can technically display 120 frames, but is only visible or useful when it's doing 3D.


That's just a theory anyways.

http://gizmodo.com/290237/the-trouble-with-lcd-tvs-motion-blur-and-the-120hz-solution



Anyways, it sounds like you may want Auto Motion Plus, and If you want AMP then you need the UN40EH6000.
Edited by chicolom - 12/12/12 at 1:10am

The same service menu is used for up to 10 different models of tv's. It's quite possible that you have mistaken the settings for one of the other models for your own. You can cycle through the panels listed, and each panel will have different identifying information.

I don't endorse going into the service menu at all, however. Even service techs are often befuddled by them, even after viewing schematics, and a customer service rep will have no idea how to help you if you change the settings and can't remember what the original settings were.

Thanks for the info chicolm. Where can we get a definitive listing of samsungs with auto motion plus rather than led motion plus? It doesn't sound like led motion plus is very effective.

I'm not sure if there is a list, but you can always download the manual and search for "Auto Motion Plus" if you want to check.

AFAIK, no sets below the xx6000 have AMP. I think all the sets except the xx4xxx have LED motion plus (backlight scanning).

Cool, I will play with this a bit tonight. I've hated any use of AMP I've played with so far, except with some on this past monday on MNF.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I can provide you my settings, which I've worked hard to arrive at and really like. Of course, they may not suit your tastes and you'll probably have to adjust at least the backlight and brightness settings (my TV is in a pretty well-lit room):

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 18
Contrast: 88
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 12
Color: 43
Tint: G50/R50

Advanced Settings submenu:
Color Space: Auto
White Balance: unchanged (25 for all)
Gamma: 0
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
Motion Lighting: Off

Picture options:
Color Tone: Standard
Size: 16:9
Digital Noise Filter: Off

Auto Motion Plus: Off (sometimes I put it on Clear)
LED Motion Plus: Off

My experience has been that very few customer service reps really know what they are talking about, ESPECIALLY when you reach them through the online chat option. They just spit out standard lines, almost like a computer (they are USING a computer, after all). If you ask them a question that goes beyond those stock lines they either can't answer or just start taking stabs in the dark (usually based on what they think you want to hear).

So I wouldn't put any stock into these chats. If you really want a solid answer you are going to have to call Samsung and insist to speak with someone who really knows what they are talking about. Unfortunately it is very hard to cut through the BS and mininformation when researching these TVs.

Assuming you properly calibrated both TVs (at the very least the basics) and were displaying a high-quality source like Blu-ray Disc via an HDMI connection, this would indicate the Sharp panel in the UN40EH5000 you had was prone to blue ghosting during fast motion but the UN40EH6000 with the Samsung panel was not. Granted the former is only 60Hz and the latter is 120Hz, but ghosting on a 60Hz *VA panel set should not be tinted any color, such as blue. The UN46EH5000 I had (TS02) had ghosting but it wasn't tinted any color (such as blue).

On a separate note, if the eco sensor bothered you on the UN40ES6100 you should have just turned it off (or at least tried a firmware update to see if it helped; for example, the firmware on the EH5000/EH6000 did have an update that improved the eco sensor feature change backlight brightness more imperceptibly).

Sounds like this person doesn't know what they are talking about at all. The same could be said for the previous chats quoted in this thread and others (though this is the worst I've seen yet).

You can see panel information on the service menu home screen, therefore there is no need to enter any sub menus or change anything. My UN46EH6030 clearly identifies as having a 60Hz panel, though unlilke the UN46EH5000 I had before, this set has a 7th generation panel (the EH5000 was a first generation panel).

TS01 EH6030: 46A6AF6D The first 6 means 60Hz and the second 6 means 7th generation panel.

TS02 EH5000: 46A6AF0D The first 6 means 60Hz and the 0 means 1st generation panel.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/are-you-really-getting-1080p-99-of-people-are-not/

Interesting. I get far too much ghosting/crosstalk with most 3D sources to the extent that I've stopped using 3D mode entirely on my set. A quick look at ConsumerReports.org indicates that some 3D LED-LCDs from Samsung this year suffer from too much ghosting/crosstalk in 3D mode, so it appears normal for a 3D set at this price ($650 to $800 for the 46" EH6030). Are you saying that those new glasses will get rid of the ghosting/crosstalk?

I've just begun to use 3D so I can't tell you what crosstalk/ghosting looks like. There was one brief shot in Prometheus near the beginning of a mountain peak after the cave discovery that the peaks were not aligned properly. Other than that, everything meshed together well. I have a Pany 42" 3D as well, and can't stand the rainbow effect in fast motion or high contrast scenes.

Great article - thanks for supplying the pointer! Looks like screen fit wins decisively.

I have some general questions related to calibrating my relatively new 55" LED (UN55EH6001FXZA):

1. To get the colors right, can I get by with just a blue filter or do I need others like red and green? I'll be using AVS HD 709. The AVS HD 709 manual only mentions using a blue filter for adjusting both color and tint.
   
2. Is it worth it to go beyond the "basic" calibration (AVS HD 709 chapters 1-6) to squeeze every last bit of wonderful from my TV or is the difference only noticeable to the most discerning?
   
3. Will adjusting the more advanced settings, like RGB gain and offset, require a meter and software? Meters can be pricey and you don't use them that often, so just trying to weigh the incremental benefit vs. the cost. Thoughts?
   
4. I've also heard (from a Geek Squad guy) and read that you should only calibrate after 100 or so hours or viewing. I do think a basic calibration is needed as soon as you turn on the set, but is it worthwhile to re-calibrate every so often? Also, does this "burning in period" apply to LED/LCD as well as plasma?

Or maybe it makes more sense to hire someone who already has a meter (I don't think any of my friends have one) to come out and do the full calibration. Not nearly as satisfying as doing it yourself but it might cost less.

TIA for your responses.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Would like to know some of these answers as well.

I had some trouble with the contrast setting because from 0-100 I don't see any differences unless I'm looking at the wrong thing. Any advice would be appreciated.

1. You only need the blue filter. However, check to see if your TV has a setting for "RGB mode". If it does you can switch the TV to "blue mode" which not only eliminates the need for the blue filter but allows a better adjustment as the blue filter you buy never exactly matches the blue color of your TV set.
2. The basic calibrations that you can do visually will get you about 80% of the way. You will need at least a colorimeter and software to get you closer to 100%. The more accurate (expensive) the colorimeter is, the more accurate your settings. For increased accuracy you need both a colorimeter and a spectrophotometer so that you can profile each individual display.
3. Using the Miscellaneous A-3 and A-4 patterns on the AVS HD 709 disk will allow you to do gross adjustments to gain. Most likely you will find the red gain is set too high and you will need it dialed back to see all of the 16 gradations on the red line using A-4. To get beyond that point you will need a meter and software.
4. Different types of panels burn in at different rates. If you are doing your own calibrations you can do it immediately and then whenever you have the time. After you have done the visual calibration a couple of times you can do it in a few minutes.
5. Having a pro come out to calibrate your set will cost dollars. I think the Geek Squad charges $299. Spectracal sells their C3 colorimeter and Tutorial Software for $149. For $249 you upgrade to a i1 Display 3 colorimeter. The basic Color Pure software with i1 Display 3 is pricier. Colorimeters drift over time so you will either need to have them recalibrated or repurchased. There are a number of threads on AVS that discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the current colorimeters and software.

I thought about your post a little more, and you may want to try dropping your contrast and/or brightness settings. If you're getting the picture washed out in white, that can be an effect of high contrast--although it really should only effect whites and not colors. Lowering the brightness will definitely make the colors pop more, but the other side of the coin is that you lose detail in gray areas.
Edited by nwener - 12/12/12 at 3:48pm

Did he give you some rationale as to why you should wait? Picture quality will be bizarre right out of the box. I would calibrate sooner rather than later. You can always re-calibrate later.

I've read the picture does get a bit darker over time on lcd's. One positive I've noted on my tv is that the screen lighting looks more uniform now. Early on, the sides of the tv clearly looked darker. Now, it's very very difficult to tell. If you look very closely at an all white screen, you may notice. In normal viewing, it would be impossible.

I've been looking through the consumer reports ratings for tv's and the plasma's get the highest scores virtually across the board. They get most of the "best buy" designations also.

The samsung lcd's generally get a 'very good' rating for 2D PQ, with some variations in ratings for motion blur and viewing angle. The samsungs generally get a 'good' rating for 3D performance.

Overall, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference in PQ ratings for 2D LCD TV's according to consumer reports.

I suppose this means that you can literally choose any of the respected, established brands and get at least VG to excellent PQ for 2D HD. But you'll have to get a plasma for the very best PQ and value.
Edited by johncourt - 12/13/12 at 2:18am

Great info - thanks! My set doesn't support blue mode, unfortunately. I did receive my THX blue filter glasses so will go with that initially. Will wait till after the holidays to invest further. After buying the set and also upgrading my center channel speaker, I'm a bit light in the wallet!!

To my eyes, Samsung and LG clearly have the best picture quality among the TVs that do not cost thousands of dollars.

But I do agree that the difference between those two and the other established brands is not substantial, such that the average consumer would probably be fine with any of them.

1. I use my i1Pro spectro to set color and tint, using 100% saturation, 75% stimulus test patterns. See the pic below as an example of what the measurements look like.



The idea here to to minimize DeltaL when setting 'Color' for all six colors and minimize DeltaH when setting 'Tint' for the secondary colors (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow). In this example, I set 'Color' as high as I could without allowing the green luma error to become visible (go past green line at 3.0) and set 'Tint' to minimize the Yellow hue error (I could either optimize Cyan/Magenta or Yellow, but not both, so I chose Yellow since it affects skintones the most).


If you don't have a meter, the next best approach is to use a blue only mode if you TV has one. If that is not an option, a blue filter can be used (but is the least accurate approach since not all blue filters work equally well). Even the blue only mode is not ideal and after using either of these two non-meter approaches you might still need to make some changes by eye while watching reference material. As far as red and green modes/filters go, they're are not needed but can be used to see how the other colors look after the blue mode/filter is used.


2. Advanced calibration includes things like grayscale and gamma (and gamut with CMS if you have one... if you lack CMS like the EH series models do, then you can set color/tint by meter as shown in #1). These things require meters/software and can make a moderate difference in most cases. How much difference you see is based on how close the TV is to reference standards after doing a basic calibration (D65 white point for grayscale and 2.2 to 2.4 for power law gamma). Presets to start with include Movie picture mode, Warm2 color tone, Auto color space, and Gamma 0. On the EH5000/6000/6030 I've calibrated with CalMAN 5 and the i1Pro spectro, the differences between the basic and advanced calibrations have been quite significant. I am quite discerning when it comes to PQ (which is why I spent the extra money on the meters/software) but anyone could notice the difference if they saw a side by side comparison.


3. Adjusting White Balance (aka Grayscale) and Gamma requires a meter. CMS also requires a meter, but the EH series sets don't have one. Eyeballing these settings can easily make PQ worse from an objective, technical standpoint. Same goes for copying settings from other users/TVs.

4. If you are getting a professional calibration, it's a good idea to wait for a month or so for the TV to fully break-in. If not (you have your own gear), you can do it right away and then do a touch-up a month later.

Those patterns are for setting contrast (and possibly color) but NOT white balance. Also, it's hard to say what percent improvement a full calibration will provide beyond a basic one as some sets are closer to the standards than others and meter accuracy also plays a big role in the final result.