Official Samsung UNXXEH6000 Owners' Thread - Page 56

have owned only panasonic plasmas in my home until now, Bought the 65" EH6000FXZA from Best Buy right after thanksgiving. It has an MH01 panel. When viewing straight on, this is the best LED I have seen. The colors are fabulous, have no motion issues watching football, hockey, or soccer, no clouding, no flashlights, very minimal banding that I can barely see when watching hockey, play Black Ops/batman/FIFA 2012 with no lag. Straight on, I like it better than my Panasonic plasmas.

BUT....the viewing angle is absolutely terrible. I have had to drop the gamma to -3, my brightness is set only at 38, backlight at 15, and have all the extra processing stuff off. Dropping the backlight to 12 or below and I crush blacks and lose shadow detail. I know viewing angles cant compare to plasmas but does anyone have any suggestions that I may have missed? My chairs off to the side of my couch gets such a washed out picture.

Thanks.

sounds like the issue is a panel tech other than S-PVA (probably A-MVA or maybe S-MVA) combined with a 65" screen, which is quite large and if you sit relatively close to it, the viewing angle issue can be rather obvious

calibration can't really compensate for poor viewing angles; you have set gamma to a very dark setting, which might help the PQ from the side but it will likely make the PQ dead center way too dark with little to no shadow detail... you might be better off with a setting of -1 (or -2 at most)

regarding brightness, that needs to be set correctly with a black clipping pattern so that digital 17 and up flash but 16 and below do not... you can't just eyeball that setting correctly and 38 sounds way too low (should be near the default of 45, +/- a couple of clicks... mine is at 44 currently)

the bottom line is that there is little you can do to make the viewing angle better, aside from sitting further back from the screen and viewing it closer to the center... if viewing angle really bothers you, you want at least a S-PVA panel (which would help significantly but still not solve the issue 100%) or more likely a plasma. IPS panel LED-LCDs can also be considered, but they lack the deep blacks of other panel techs and plasmas

start with Movie pic mode and make sure dynamic contrast and black tone are both off

then set brightness correctly with a black clipping pattern like on the AVS calibration disc

finally raise the gamma setting (if needed) to boost shadow detail and recheck brightness

Does anyone know if there's a 40" + Samsung TV that's not a plasma that doesn't have the terrible off-angle viewing?
Or is that something that doesn't exist?

I've got one.

Does anyone also have an EH5000 model? I read from one of the "professional" reviews that the EH5000 beats the EH6000 in many aspects. That review was for a 40" only though, could it be size related or is this another issue related to the type of panel? For example, if the reviewer had a better panel on the EH5000 and didn't have such a good one on the EH6000? Or is the EH5000 truly better? Anyone have experience with both models? Thanks.

the truth is, if you get a Samsung S-PVA panel on both (Version: Txxx), they are more similar than different and the EH6000 has smoother, clearer motion (without the SOE if you set AMP to Clear or Custom: BR: 10 and JR: 0)... it also does 24p playback without 2:3 pulldown, which makes movies look smoother in a good way (again not the SOE)

I have had both the UN46EH5000 and UN46EH6000, both Version: TS02 and fully calibrated them when I had them and watched many high quality sources like BD movies and played HD console games... so I know what I'm talking about.

You have a S-PVA panel on your set IIRC, but don't find the viewing angles satisfactory. This means you could try a IPS panel (like on a LG or Panasonic) but beware that panel tech has weakest blacks of any LCD panel tech. Aside from that, you should be looking at plasmas if neither S-PVA or IPS is good enough for you... though don't expect to see any 1080p plasmas under 50"-51".

EH6000 does true 24p playback? I was testing it last week and my result suggests No (though not totally conclusive). My test: plug my Macbook Air (2012) directly into the EH6000 (via thunderbolt-to-HDMI cable), play end of movie scrolling credits (verified to be 24p) using 2 settings: 1. set my Mac to output 1080p 60Hz; 2. set my Mac to output 1080p 24Hz. EH6000 confirms the signals received were 1080p60 and 1080p24 respectively. EH6000's motion options were all set to OFF. I saw no noticeable difference in smoothness.

My guess is when the EH6000 receives 1080p24, it first converts it to 60Hz using 2:3 pulldown, then upconverts it to 120Hz to display. Just my guess. I assume that if the EH6000 simply multiplies the 24p five times to 120Hz, I would see noticeably smoother scrolling credits. But I didn't see it.

Aside from user reviews and the opinions and information gathered from sites like AVS Forum, I'm curious to know how much stock people take in "professional" revews like the ones you read and/or see on CNET and many others.

What have people found to be the most reliable, unbiased and knowledgeable review sites out there?

Admittedly, I didn't do much research before buying my Samsung. I bought it primarily based on Samsung's reputation and the great price offered by BB during the Black Friday season. Also, I badly needed a new TV because my old Sony Grand Wega was on death's doorstep and needed to be replaced sooner than later. I do typically like to research AV products before I purchase them. Most of the reviews and "professional" opinions I read or listened to after I bought my set seemed to indicate that A) the 6000 series are decent but not exactly stellar and B) 2012 was not a very good year for LED/LCD televisions in general. Under different circumstances, I might have gone in a different direction - like plasma or a higher-end LED - based on these "professional" opinions. Since my 2012 set looks great to me, it caused me to wonder how much credibility to give to these reviews. Thoughts/opinions?
Edited by jonny-zed - 1/9/13 at 9:35am

I see, thanks for the info.
Probably depends on the review. For example, for the EH5000 review I read here: http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/samsung-un40eh5000-led-lcd-hdtv-review.htm I actually felt was a reliable source because it wasn't just the usual few paragraph vague review, it was more in-depth. They actually compared the various aspects of the TV by performing tests including some direct comparisons with the EH6000.

In the end I think it ended up being a panel issue that led to their conclusion that the EH5000 is better overall. Although the thing I don't understand is that different panels tend to have different strengths and weaknesses right? Yet according to them the EH5000 still outperformed the EH6000 in almost every area. I'll probably take the review as a grain of salt though.

Many "pro" reviews of display technologies don't even bother to change the default settings. That says it all. And unfortunately in the internet age everyone with a webpage can style themselves an expert. Cnet, for just one example, has done reviews which were off base for all kinds of electronic and consumer products more times than I can count. User reviews are I feel much more reliable. Once I saw this TV with an average 4.5 star rating and articulate sounding praise (and I always read the negative reviews too) on amazon, I knew I was probably making an acceptable choice.

You need to be in Custom mode for AMP, BR max (10) and JR min (0). Setting AMP to Clear or Off will result in 2:3 pulldown.

I have experience with both models (both with Samsung panels).

I appreciate the 120hz that comes with the EH6000.

Also the EH5000 does not have LED Motion Plus. Many people turn that feature off anyway, but it is nice to have around, especially for when you're watching sports. I personally leave mine on the "clear" setting and I feel that it does reduce motion blur while not introducing the "soap opera effect" that people complain of when you put LED Motion Plus on the "standard" setting.

One final note: I had some bad vignetting and shadowing in the corners of the EH5000. The problem is still there with the EH6000 (it's inherent to the backlit design) but is much less pronounced. It could've just been the luck of the draw, but I wonder if the EH6000 might have a slightly better backlight or build design or some other feature that reduces this problem.

My $.02 is that the EH6000 is superior and certainly worth the relatively small price difference that you'll find between the two models right now.

Of course, maybe the panel matters more. So if you're options are an EH5000 with a Samsung panel or an EH6000 with a Chi Mei panel, maybe that changes the outcome. That would be interesting information (as would more information on the panel lottery generally).
Edited by nwener - 1/9/13 at 2:36pm

I think you mean Auto Motion Plus (AMP 120Hz) where you mention LED Motion Plus. All EH 5 and 6 series have LED Motion Plus but the EH5000/EH5300/EH6030/EH6070 lack Auto Motion Plus.

Thanks for your input. Now I just have to wait and see what models Samsung comes out with this year.

Thanks for the response. I'd agree that CNET is not very good. For instance, it seems they place a lot of emphasis on aesthetics. I'm still interested in knowing if there are any truly reputable reveiwers. Consumer Reports is reputable, but I'm not sure they have any concentrated expertise in this area. I've read some good reviews of other sets. If I can remember the online pubs that posted them, I'll pass them on.

The other thing about reviews is that sometimes a set will get dinged for lacking a feature that other sets have. For instance, I've seen the 6000 lose points for having only 2 HDMI inputs when some comparably-priced sets have up to 4. But if you only need 1 (like I do), then who cares?

I also think the obvious key to user reviews is the more the better. A high rating with only a few reviews is not a good enough sample size. I'd agree that a hundred or more reviews - or someting approximating that - is a fairly reliable indicator.

Yes you're right, my mistake.

It seems to me like many of the "professional" reviewers get too caught up in the bells and whistles and marketing BS that the manufacturers put out there. They'll ding a set like the EH6000 because it doesn't have 3D and isn't "smart". Well 3D seems like just a gimmick so far and the features you get with a "smart" TV are far below what you get through Roku or a smart Blu-Ray player. Why ding a set because it doesn't have semi-worthless or underdeveloped technology?

Honestly, all I care about is picture quality and how it handles motion. I wish there were some great professional reviewers who stuck to mainly just that.

You mean a review like this one?
http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Samsung-UN40EH6000-LED-LCD-HDTV-Review.htm

@derekwwww: Can you tell the difference between 24p and 60p after applying the settings mentioned by PlasmaPZ80U? I ran the same test you did (watching scrolling credits) and I couldn't see a difference either. I have an EH6030 which doesn't have AMP.

Yes, that's a good one and one I actually looked at before purchasing the Eh6000. My only problem with that review is that it's tough to navigate and doesn't necessarily need to be 18 pages, but hey, at least it's thorough.

So, one issue I notice, but maybe it's my other equipment.

I have a setup like this: PS3 -> Onkyo 5300 -> UN46EH6000. Right now I am watching a 24p movie (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade). When I set Auto Motion Plus to "Smooth" I get a lot of artifacting around edges of different speed items. For instance, if a person is walking fast and the background is stationary, I get what can best be described as vertical interlacing where the two fields meet.

Has anyone else experienced this?

@raymod2: I don't clearly recall with AMP set to BR=10 and JR=0 whether there was any difference between 24p and 60p. I don't think there was. That was not the focus of my test because such AMP setting creates interpolated frames in between, i.e. artificially created frames that didn't exist in the original file. Interpolation certainly makes credit scroll smoother, but that has nothing to do with 2:3 pulldown, AFAIK. When I tested for the presence or absence of 2:3 pulldown I purposely did not use any interpolation (e.g. AMP).


@PlasmaPZ80U: Can you explain how you know that to be true? Seems strange to me. BR is an interpolation function (per Samsung FAQ). Why would maxing out interpolation for blur reudction (setting BR to 10) remove 2:3 pulldown and yet, OFF activate 2:3 pulldown? OFF means no interpolation at all, which should simply show the 24 frames 5 times at 120Hz, if indeed the TV is capable to doing that.

It's not the actual BR and JR settings that make the difference, it's Custom mode vs. Off or Clear.

"Video processing: The UNEH6000 series has most of the same processing options found on higher-end Samsungs, and when it comes to dejudder it offers more adjustability than the competition. Its three dejudder presets -- Clear, Standard, and Smooth -- join a Custom setting under the Auto Motion Plus (AMP) menu. Engaging Standard and Smooth introduces the characteristic smoothing effect, as well as some artifacts, so I preferred the freedom of Custom.

That mode, which includes a Blur Reduction and a Judder Reduction setting, lets you tweak both parameters to your liking. I prefer minimal dejudder, but having the option to dial in as much or as little as you like is very welcome.

In the AMP menu at Custom with Judder Reduction at 0 and Blur Reduction at 10, the UNEH6000 offers the best of both worlds. It turned in its full-motion resolution and handled 1080p/24 properly. With AMP set to Clear or Off, the set seemed to be treating the image with 2:3 pull-down, showing the slightly stuttering cadence seen on 60Hz models. The other AMP settings introduced more smoothing/dejudder"

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un46eh6000/4505-6482_7-35159621-2.html


I know CNET is not the best source but I noticed this behavior myself when I had the EH6000.

Yes, that's exactly what I was asking for. Will bookmark this site right away. Thanks Tom B!

If this is so, why does BR 10 and JR 0 cause the dreaded frame-jerking on my Netflix playback (a similar thing happens if my blu-ray player tries to incorrectly output 24p in Netflix, one of its bugs caused by previous BR disc playback before switching to Netflix)? Clear looks fine on all sources but not that custom setup. The custom one does look fairly smooth on disc sources but I'm not sold on it. I also haven't tried it with TV interlaced signals yet.

because Netflix only does 1080/60p output, NOT 1080/24p output

Custom mode works great with BD movie playback at 1080/24p... Clear is fine for everything else (like 1080/60p sources).

24p sources output as 1080/60p by the source device (BD player) will always have 2:3 pulldown, since the source device converts the 24Hz signal to 60Hz to allow 1080/60p output. When 24p is output as 24p, then the display has a chance to do 5:5 pulldown instead, assuming the set has a native 120Hz refresh rate and is set up to do 5:5 pulldown instead of 2:3 pulldown. Unfortunately, the Samsung EH6000 only does 5:5 pulldown with AMP set to Custom. It's a design flaw IMO, but that's how the set actually works.
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 1/10/13 at 12:56pm

^ Also, setting AMP to Custom when not watching BD movies at 24p does make it glitchy at times, causing the frame-jerking you mentioned. All in all, AMP on recent Samsungs can be a PITA at times and so I'm happy my EH6030 has 120Hz for 24fps sources and 3D but no AMP setting to mess around with. It certainly simplifies things.