Official Samsung UNXXEH6000 Owners' Thread - Page 63

I'd say for those who can't afford it (a reliable meter like an i1pro1/2 or colormunki spectro... basically any spectro since colorimeters alone can have their own reliability issues) this is not a replacement, just one possible approach (though not a very reliable one). It's easy to assume what you're stating is correct when no actual data is available (grayscale measures), but no one who actually has such a meter (a spectro of some kind) will ever make a statement of the sort.

I suppose I'd be making similar statements if I didn't have a meter but still wanted to improve the grayscale somehow (such as by eye with grayscale patterns/any B/W material). I guess there are different levels of interest and knowledge with regards to display calibration since the worth of a calibrated display is not the same for everyone (price being a factor since spectros/calibration software can cost quite a bit as do pro calibrations while the EH series sets are pretty reasonably priced... it can be hard to justify spending hundreds on calibration for a TV under $1K).
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 1/28/13 at 7:29pm

thank you very much for your response....
am thinking of returning this and buying the 46" when it goes back to $599....and again hunt for TS02 panel...

The points you make which I highlighted are very valid. What's more, I have owned two meters in the past, as well as borrowed another since there were variations in actually using meters to set gray scale and other picture settings. I also followed up with the meters after making just visual correction to gray scale using AVS HD709 on TVs that had red or green tint in the white balance. The results were that the visual correction that was made to gray scale, was verified by the meter data to be much closer than just "leaving it" at some other default setting that was obviously off. Was it as accurate as a completer meter calibration? Of course not, but neither was it worse. In all cases, gray scale was closer to the mark at all steps or no worse off than default settings by making visual purity adjustment to white balance/grayscale.
Edited by Phase700B - 1/28/13 at 7:53pm

In that case, what should version should I look for on the side of the box to indicate a Samsung panel (S-PVA)? And of those samsung panels is there a top one?

Go read the link in my sig again if your confused (and look at the pictures on the bottom).

They're may or may not be minor differences in the version/generation of S-PVA used, but it's too much of a hassle to try and sort out any differences at that level. If you want a Samsung S-PVA, I would just look for any panel version starting with Txxx and be happy with it.

Turned out all the lights and pulled up a black screen from WOW. Don't have the flashlighting on the bottom corners on my panel (60" Sharp) but there is still a fist sized flashlight toward the bottom right of my screen. Also some variance across the screen but once I turn on any ambient light it all disappears. I normally watch TV with at least moderate light so this does not bother me at all. For your info I currently have backlight 12, brightness 46, contrast 98, gamma -1. Might sound like the picture would be too dark in a lit room but it looks plenty bright to me.

Agree with Chicolom that the bottom corners on you screen look abnormally bright. Usually on the 6000 models the corners are too dark.

I have the same impression about too much red at default settings. My laptop screen already has a pretty cool/temp and slight pink caste, and the defaults on this TV make my laptop look warm and yellow/green biased in comparison...


Every source I've read on calibration has recommended that in general you should be using a meter for greyscale calibraton...BUT if you see obvious color caste to the greyscale, then it is OK to adjust and try to correct for it some by eye. I've never seen them definitively say "Don't even try" or "Don't touch the controls" without a meter, and to leave obvious color caste in the image because you can't correct it even if you try.


Yes you can screw things up, but you can also improve things. It's not impossible without a meter. It IS impossible to objectively get it correct and 100% accurate, but it's not impossible to at least improve the accuracy subjectively - and possibly objectively as well.

If the default settings create a color caste so obvious as to bother the viewer (like it did for me and others who noticed an obvious red tint - obvious enough that our eyes can't even adjust or get used to) there probably is already some inaccuracy in the greyscale. Why not use the controls to remove the obvious errors and improve the image subjectively (and quite possibly objectively to an extent at the same time.)

This seems like a lesser evil then just giving up and accepting whatever greyscale is given to you, especially when that greyscale looks obviously inaccurate to your eyes, as well as next to all your other displays.
Edited by chicolom - 1/28/13 at 11:59pm

I have the same model and panel. Turned down the lights and watched the scene from LOTR RTOTK 5 times and I don't see the purple/blue ghosting. Maybe my eyes are getting old but if I don't see it then it's fine for me. Was going to return this TV for a 55" with a Samsung panel on hold at BB but I think I'll keep it. I don't think viewing angle performance is very good but since I'm single (unfortunately), I can watch the TV straight on (fortunately), and PQ is great. Txxx panels are supposed to have better contrast and viewing angles but unless there is such a thing as a 60" EH6000 Samsung panel I'll stick with the one I have.

Sorry for starting the controversy about white balance. However, I'd like to know if white balance gain and offset settings directly affect color and tint settings.

Ha...no apology needed, this is how we learn.

Yes, absolutely, every change you make affects the overall picture. "White balance" is merely a term. Remember that white is an aggregate of many other colors (in our case RGB, the basis of pixel technology). How you white balance affects all the color you see. If you do it wrong in video production where lighting can vary widely, you end up with a very wrong-looking image. In TV sets it's usually subtler than that, but can make a huge difference over the long term of viewing.

Wow. ... IF you surf around AVS as long as I have , you will read where "gurus" and pros will tell you never to touch RGB controls to correct visual tint in white balance/grays scale. Some are still always quick to point out accuracy issues, time wasting, etc. Read about how much time and dozens of calibrations they've done with meters "becasue something is just not right". Usually they want to say it will be worse (doing a visual white balance correction), because you won't know if tracking is correct at all levels. Well, they are equally assuming that leaving a visible tint in a preset Warm 1 or Warm 2 is more accurate in spite of the obvious visual color skew. Poppycock. These TVs are especially easier to adjust since they have user RGB controls and it is only a 2 point high and low system rather than a 10 or 20 point gray scale alignment.

Plus, I'll requote what I stated earlier regarding what I did when I owned two meters as well as borrowing a meter as a control to cross check my results:

* "I have owned two meters in the past, as well as borrowed another since there were variations in actually using meters to set gray scale and other picture settings. I also followed up with the meters after making just visual correction to gray scale using AVS HD709 on TVs that had red or green tint in the white balance. The results were that the visual correction that was made to gray scale, was verified by the meter data to be much closer than just "leaving it" at some other default setting that was obviously off. Was it as accurate as a completer meter calibration? Of course not, but neither was it worse. In all cases, gray scale was closer to the mark at all steps or no worse off than default settings by making visual purity adjustment to white balance/grayscale." *


I've worked in TV and electronics repair for over 30 years before meters ever existed and white balance, or Purity adjustments, were done by eye and possibly with a gray scale chart to compare to. But AVS HD709 is a great aid to do about the same thing. Futhermore, I can see both sides. If you have the money to spend, and tweaking and a meter floats your boat, that's good too.

The trouble is, those with meters or other agendas, seem to go a bit overboard alarming TV owners about accuracy, not to standards, not scientific, etc; if obvious color tint in white balance is eliminated by eye.
Edited by Phase700B - 1/29/13 at 5:47am

The bottom line is that grayscale calibration is meant to be done with a reliable meter and if you do it instead with an unreliable one like an unprofiled colorimeter or by eye with test patterns or B/W material, the 'calibration' becomes purely subjective as the tool measuring color is either an unreliable colorimeter or our eyes, which are even more unreliable at measuring color in an absolute sense (we can see relative differences a lot better).

Consider this. If you were to show someone new to display calibration a TV that was perfectly calibrated, you might hear things like the whites/grays look too warm/yellowish/reddish/etc. Over time, if that person was to look at only (fully) calibrated displays, they might then say that uncalibrated ones have whites that are way too blue/cool.

Yet another example is the white clipping pattern on the AVS disc. If the background is lacking in red, the flashing bars appear red to our eyes. However, a meter will prove that the bars are neutral gray and the background is discolored.

I have a question, that maybe has been answered before, but I looked everywhere and didn't find any info about it, I hope you guys can help me

I have a new UN46EH6000F, an old Marantz receiver and a new panasonic bluray player.

The problem is that the panny bluray player does not have an independent digital audio output, only Hdmi (for digital) and rca (analog 2 channels) and the marantz receiver doesn't have a hdmi input.

Is there a way I can get digital audio from the receiver? Because i tried connecting the panny to the tv via hdmi and from the tv via toslink to the receiver but i only get 2 channels... Is that because of the hdmi handshake? Is there a way to make this equipments work together and get? 1080p video and 5.1 audio? Or should i replace either the bluray player (which I won on a christmas party raffle or the receiver (which I love and works great)

Please let me know your ideas

Thanks

+1 I agree and if the end result is that known colors now look closer to real life images and appear "normal" instead of off shades of green, yellow, or blues, then you know your visual gray scale adjustments and white balance ARE better. Again, we are talking about obvious tints in gray scale. The bottom line is if you do not see any obvious shades of red, green , or blue in what should be grays or whites. Surely, bottom line, not rocket science is needed for that. Even metered calibrations performed at meter makers, are in the end, auditioned visually to determine if the metered results are accurate. You can rely on the end visible result to a visual white balance and gray scale adjustment.

I have compared both what was thought of as "good" meters and a known good spectro results with visually adjusted results and since sometimes hobbyist meters can drift, it is good do double check. The know good spectro verified that visual unmetered white balance adjust did correct and get while balance/gray scale much closer to the desirable CIE standards. The fact that there should even be a question about a pricey colorimeter should be suspect enough as to accuracy and reliability. Yet, that sadly sometimes is the case.

I'd just buy a new receiver with many HDMI inputs. It seems like a newer receiver could decode the stereo toslink input into at least 5.1 though, maybe it is really, really old? I dunno.. A new receiver would fix all your problems though for sure.

The reason you get only 2 channel back from the toslink on tht TV is that HDMI and the HDCP (copy protection) forbids downconverting the audio on most TVs when the TV is fed a high quality codec like , say, DD HDMA via HDMI. Some TV can pass through Dolby Digital forma DVD player and to a receiver through toslink, but that's it.

Even if you find a Blu-ray player with an optical toslink out, the best you get out of it is Dolby Digital 5.1 because the is toslinks band width limitation, but still better than 2 channel stereo from the TV.

My advice, if you're happy with it, don't go hunting for issues. Someone's signature here says "What has been seen, cannot be unseen". This is quite true. I now have 2 UN60EH6050 sets, both HS01 and both have minor purple, violet ghosting if you know what to look for. If you're not looking for it, you won't see it. I got the second 6050 because of bleeding issues on my first set. Both sets have the same amount of the ghosting, but like I said you have to look for it.

My second set which I picked up last night at first had a seemingly more uniform screen and I thought I found the one, but low and behold there is a screen wrinkle in the panel. At the bottom of the inner bezel where the panel tucks behind half an inch of the frame, about 1 inch of the panel didn't tuck and lays closer to the front glass element. Result, a ripple from the bottom that isn't noticeable unless that area goes to a solid color. There's also clouding on this set as well. More clouding than my 1st set, but the intensity of the bleeding corner on my 1st set is slightly worse. Nobody freak out, this I'm sure a rare manufacturing defect that isn't common to this model. Can anybody comment on whether the Costco EH6050 is truly the same as the EH6000? Seems like I'm not seeing the screen uniformity other owners are getting and this is on two separate sets. The clouding on the second set is on the other side of the tv away from the ripple.

have you seen any pic posted on this website which shows what exactly what is purple/blue ghosting?
(i saw the scene few times, didnt notice ghosting on my set too)

you are correct abt backlight, it was set to 20 (default setting in movie mode), i did reduce it to 3 and saw the same screen in same conditions, there is a very small leakage i still see...and if i turn on even a small lamp, screen looks perfectly uniform (although picture is not as bright as backlight 20).

but in any case i am thinking of returning it and go for 46" 6000 series...

does anyone have any info or links on 2013 models, release dates and pricing?

^ ^ ^ What you show on the screen appears to be uneven pressure on the LCD panel itself. There may be some plastic flash or other material behind the bezel and it is pinching the LCD panel in that spot. Did you try lossening any screws behind the panel in that area to see if the screen returns to normal in that spot?

The problem is, the large the screen, the more liely issues like this will pop up in any brand. The desire for thin bezels and cabinets leaves little for LCD support.

Just bought the 55" version of this TV.

I have an old Monoprice wall mount that has screws that are too small for the back of this TV. The manual says to use M8 400x400 screws (whatever that is). Has anyone had experience asking for these at a hardware store or is this going to be a lost cause when I go to Home Depot or Lowes this evening?

I ran a search, but couldn't find anyone that had experience buying/finding these screws.

Thank you for the response. It's hard to tell from the picture but if you go up to your own TV with it on and look down at the bottom edge, you'll see about a quarter inch ridge between where the panel sits and where the front "glass" element sits. The glass element is what we can touch. There is 1 inch of the panel (horizontal) that didn't get tucked under the inner bezel, so it's uneven and is poking out and touching the front glass element. So to it's like a sheet of paper that is standing straight up on your desk but part of the bottom is a quarter inch forward causing a bend in the panel. Maybe the pic will better illustrate what's going on. Unless the 1 inch part of the panel is tucked in, the ripple will remain.

Chicolom posted this link earlier. Different model but still a Sharp panel. I've watched some fast moving black on white scenes and definitely didn't see anything as bad as this.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406151/the-official-2012-samsung-eh4000-eh5000-eh5300-owners-thread/720#post_22689169

I had the exact same issue with a 55" EH6030 purchased from Best Buy two weeks ago - except it was on the left-hand side of the screen. Ended up returning it for a 55" EH6000 (AUO panel) which fortunately has had no issues.

Thank you.
my TV screen is clear..no ghosting.

The only real issue is getting the right setting for movie now...
(and a excessive bleeding on right bottom corner)

I had similar bleed in the corners at first on my 55" (6001). Thought about returning it, did not in the end. The bleed faded significantly as I began using the tv, and also it was something that was only visible in a totally dark room and on a dark scene. As soon as there was any ambient light it was almost impossible to see on a totally black screen - if there was any actual picture up on the tv it was totally impossible to notice any bleeding. At this point the bleed is very, very faint in a dark room with black screen - much less bright than when I first turned on the set.

If you still have the set, I'd suggest waiting at least until your return period is near up. This TV has a wobbly stand and somewhat poor viewing angle, but is otherwise quite capable and is priced well. I wouldn't expect to pick up a better 55" for $800 any time soon.

Okay, hopefully 3rd time is a charm like it was 6 years ago with my first HDTV, Samsung LNT4065F. There is one UN60EH6000 available in my area that I just bought online and will pickup tonight or tomorrow. Something I did not know is that the two EH6050s that I got from Costco are not exactly the same TV as the EH6000 as I read here in this thread. It was stated somewhere that it's just a Costco Model# to offset price challenges but that its the exact same set. I never checked until now. Major differences are:

Dynamic Contrast Ration: EH6050 (4,500,000: 1)
EH6000 (5,000,000: 1)

Stand Color EH6050: Rose Black
EH6000: Black

The highly reviewed model on Amazon and Best Buy is the EH6000. If I would have known there was a difference, I would have gotten the EH6000 out the gate. My bad for not looking at the specs. So maybe this is an indicator of the issues I'm having on two separate sets whereas everyone is touting the uniformity of the EH6000. I'll find out tonight.

deleted

I'm not sure that there really is a difference between the 6050 and 6000. The "dynamic contrast ratio" is apparently not a very objective measurement and could easily be skewed one way or the other (such as to justify a significant MSRP between the two models). As for the difference between "rose black" and "black", well who the hell knows.

I highly doubt Samsung intentionally manufactures a slightly inferior TV just for Costco. Could be wrong though.

Totally agree. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I just thought I was getting something that was the same as the EH6000. It's slightly different according to the specs. I was dead set happy with my first EH6050 if it weren't for the bleeding that kept me thinking this wasn't normal for this back lit LED model. The screen is uniform across the entire screen except for a substantial flashlight in the lower left corner. Not noticeable during regular viewing in a well lit room. Only slightly in the darkest of dark scenes. When the room gets dim though, it's noticeable, even with turning the back light to 6 or 8. Unless the third set is completely uniform as most people state that theirs is, I'll be keeping the 1st set.

The stand does have a reddish tint to it which is very similar to the touch of color shading of earlier Samsung LCDs but darker. It looks black unless you're up close.