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Looking for Feedback on my Professional Calibration/Concerns - Page 3

post #61 of 83
2/26/12 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I guess depends on the lamp, it is known to be an issue though and confirmed by many people in the JVC threads. If I remember correctly, there are some internal code in projectors that internally recalibrates gamma automatically to try to maintain a consistent one over lamp wear (maybe I am wrong), and people were thinking this part in the JVC that does this has a bug. 100-200 hours is where my drift got bad.

The only way to check this is to re-set the lamp hours from say over 1000 hours back to zero with the same lamp and measure the before/after gamma.
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post #62 of 83
2/26/12 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

I just finished reviewing the JVC X30 projector and the gamma controls allow you to fine tune the presets at levels (10,15,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,95 I think, maybe 5 as well) for both white and then RGB. Using this I can get a rail flat grayscale and perfect gamma. The charts are amazing. .

These RGB controls were available since the RS20 days. I think there were people who had success with them using a spreadsheet that works with JVC's "smoothing" algorithm.

As we all know that lamp aging shifts the RGB balance anyway - and touching up the greyscale using 2-point is much easier than going through 12-point greyscale if you intend to do it every few hundred hours.
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post #63 of 83
2/27/12 at 6:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah going back and forth can be very helpful.

Most CMS's don't work correctly, that's the thing. The times they often do work correctly often ends up being the devices that ship closest to accurate OOTB and might be because you don't have to use the CMS as severely. The more severe you have to change a CMS, the more often there are side effects.

It works on mine well enough (not perfectly) and without side effects. Also, I'm able to get all dE94's under 1, so it has enough range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

Did your calibrator end up tending to your Night mode concerns?

Nope, not a single reply since he gave me the calibration report/settings and dismissed all my concerns (last Wednesday).
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post #64 of 83
2/27/12 at 6:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

It did on mine. I ended up leaving the CMS at 0 since there is no luminous controls. I was told that if you move things around to much with the CMS you have to go back an tweak gray scale, then go back and tweak the cms.. repeat as needed. I was also told Changing CMS should not effect gray scale if the CMS works correctly. For CMS to really work correctly you need 3 adjustments for each color not just 2. Sometimes it is just best to leave the color alone if the controls don't work well.. My set does not have the IPS panel and is way under saturated in red. I can't fix it, it does not have all the controls and the controls it does have messes with gray scale.. That all tells me to just leave it alone.

I've had better results on my 42" version with the S-IPS panel. Eventhough it's a 2D CMS, color affects luminance primarily (and saturation to some extent) while tint is just a hue control as expected. It may affect grayscale on my set, but the effect so far appears to be too small for me to be sure whether the CMS is changing grayscale or I'm just noticing the limitations of short-term repeatability on my meter.
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post #65 of 83
2/27/12 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I've had better results on my 42" version with the S-IPS panel. Eventhough it's a 2D CMS, color affects luminance primarily (and saturation to some extent) while tint is just a hue control as expected. It may affect grayscale on my set, but the effect so far appears to be too small for me to be sure whether the CMS is changing grayscale or I'm just noticing the limitations of short-term repeatability on my meter.

You will also see slight difference as you move the meter in any direction after taking readings..
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post #66 of 83
2/27/12 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

You will also see slight difference as you move the meter in any direction after taking readings..

Which is why I use the meter position pattern on the AVS disc to get the C6 dead center every calibration session.
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post #67 of 83
2/27/12 at 10:02am
How do your game mode settings look?
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post #68 of 83
2/27/12 at 10:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

How do your game mode settings look?

I am not one of those people who believe in using a separate picture mode and/or different settings for playing video games. All content including video games and TV programming is supposed to adhere to the same standards as DVD and BD movies/TV shows. Even if it doesn't, there is nothing you can do (objectively) beyond calibrating your display to adhere to those reference standards in such cases.

My calibrated Night mode settings (with my C6) are what I currently use for all content. I don't really use Day mode since my room is dim during the day (only ambient light is what leaks from the closed curtains) and completely dark at night.
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post #69 of 83
2/27/12 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Which is why I use the meter position pattern on the AVS disc to get the C6 dead center every calibration session.

Hey PlasmaPZ80U, what do you use for the meter position pattern on the AVS disc? I never knew there was a specific pattern for that. I guess I need to spend some more time exploring the disc.
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post #70 of 83
2/27/12 at 10:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketlaw View Post

Hey PlasmaPZ80U, what do you use for the meter position pattern on the AVS disc? I never knew there was a specific pattern for that. I guess I need to spend some more time exploring the disc.

There are several ones, but the one I used is under CalMAN -> Windows -> Meter Position. I find it crucial to get meter position right every time I use my meter so that I can keep the readings as consistent as possible. The less uniform the display, the more critical this becomes and this is more about precision than accuracy.
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post #71 of 83
2/27/12 at 11:42am
Here is an interesting video with the Jeff Murray formerly of Spectracal.. talking about CMS. This is from 2011..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KTT0O4PJsM
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post #72 of 83
2/27/12 at 11:48am
I don't know if I am using an older version or what, but I cannot for the life of me find the meter position window on the AVS disc. I checked exactly where you said it should be. Have they updated the disc recently?

For the time being, I had just used the 100% white window and positioned the meter for highest fL's.
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post #73 of 83
2/27/12 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketlaw View Post

I don't know if I am using an older version or what, but I cannot for the life of me find the meter position window on the AVS disc. I checked exactly where you said it should be. Have they updated the disc recently?

For the time being, I had just used the 100% white window and positioned the meter for highest fL's.

If you are using the one off the spectracal site, I think it is in the misc patterns spot... Yes there are a couple different layouts. I to just eyeball the center of the pattern.. after all when we watch the tv we don't just look at the center!
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post #74 of 83
2/27/12 at 12:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketlaw View Post

I don't know if I am using an older version or what, but I cannot for the life of me find the meter position window on the AVS disc. I checked exactly where you said it should be. Have they updated the disc recently?

For the time being, I had just used the 100% white window and positioned the meter for highest fL's.

To clarify, I'm using the AVCHD version burned to a DVD-R. It's the latest update (2D).
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post #75 of 83
2/27/12 at 8:17pm
I looked and found out I was using an earlier version (or possibly not the AVCHD version). The version I was using was about half of the 4.5 GB version that is up there now. The menu system I was going through before was horrible. The new menu system rocks and will cut down on my calibration times.
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post #76 of 83
2/28/12 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 703 View Post

The only way to check this is to re-set the lamp hours from say over 1000 hours back to zero with the same lamp and measure the before/after gamma.

I don't think that is how it works, it's based on some type of internal data possibly even from a sensor.
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post #77 of 83
2/28/12 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I am not one of those people who believe in using a separate picture mode and/or different settings for playing video games. All content including video games and TV programming is supposed to adhere to the same standards as DVD and BD movies/TV shows. Even if it doesn't, there is nothing you can do (objectively) beyond calibrating your display to adhere to those reference standards in such cases.

My calibrated Night mode settings (with my C6) are what I currently use for all content. I don't really use Day mode since my room is dim during the day (only ambient light is what leaks from the closed curtains) and completely dark at night.

If you don't use day mode, why didn't you have the calibrator just focus on night mode?
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post #78 of 83
2/28/12 at 7:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josam27o7 View Post

If you don't use day mode, why didn't you have the calibrator just focus on night mode?

He was just planning to do one mode for the $375 but I wanted both and had mentioned that in two e-mails the day before the calibration. I had him do Day mode first and and then managed to get him to do the Night mode without charging me extra since he was the one who didn't read my e-mails completely. Since he wasn't planning to do the second mode (Night mode), he basically rushed it resulting in the considerably less accurate result shown in the calibration report. Most calibrators will do both Day and Night modes per input without an extra charge, which is why I choose to have both modes done initially. Of course, if I had known this would have happened, I'd have had him do the Night mode first (since I use it almost always).
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post #79 of 83
3/6/12 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 
I know this thread is old but I just wanted to give a quick and final update:

I have received no response from my calibrator since the day I received my calibration report and sent a message replying to his unsatisfactory response regarding my various concerns. It's obvious at this point he isn't going to do anything and that includes even replying to my e-mail(s). All I can say is that I honestly hope most professional calibrators are better than what I experienced.
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post #80 of 83
3/6/12 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I know this thread is old but I just wanted to give a quick and final update:

I have received no response from my calibrator since the day I received my calibration report and sent a message replying to his unsatisfactory response regarding my various concerns. It's obvious at this point he isn't going to do anything and that includes even replying to my e-mail(s). All I can say is that I honestly hope most professional calibrators are better than what I experienced.

Some are and some aren't. It's unfortunate that the matter couldn't be resolved.
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post #81 of 83
3/6/12 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I know this thread is old but I just wanted to give a quick and final update:

I have received no response from my calibrator since the day I received my calibration report and sent a message replying to his unsatisfactory response regarding my various concerns. It's obvious at this point he isn't going to do anything and that includes even replying to my e-mail(s). All I can say is that I honestly hope most professional calibrators are better than what I experienced.

Looks like being a professional calibrator has less to do with being a calibrator and more to do with being a professional.
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post #82 of 83
3/6/12 at 3:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

Looks like being a professional calibrator has less to do with being a calibrator and more to do with being a professional.

very true, at least that's my experience
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post #83 of 83
3/6/12 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandarKoad View Post

Looks like being a professional calibrator has less to do with being a calibrator and more to do with being a professional.

Pretty much true about every service oriented profession.
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