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Question to the pros about Element ELDTF404 imaging

post #1 of 8
2/25/12 at 9:50am
Thread Starter 
EDITED: Added more information here, and EDID data in a later post.

So, I acquired an Element ELDTF404 40" LCD and set about assessing it's quality, but I ran into some hitches I just don't understand and I was hoping some of the pros here could set the record straight.

Here's the TV:

http://www.elementelectronics.com/2011/12/eldft404/

Here's the thing:

When hooked up to a PS3 via HDMI, the PS3 detects the display as a 1080p display,

BUT

When hooked up to Windows 7 via HDMI, the Nvidia control panel identifies the native resolution as 1360 x 768. And in fact, if 1080p is sent to the display from the PC, the edges are cropped out. A 1650ish resolution shows up intact.

So how is there this discrepancy?

Another clue to the puzzle: The TV has "zoom" modes. The default zoom level is "wide" on the 1080p image sent from the PS3. When set to "normal" zoom level, the 1080p image is constrained to a 4:3 aspect ratio. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!

Thanks guys. Looking forward to seeing how the light gets shed on this. By the way, of course the TV is listed as a "1080p Full HD" display.
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post #2 of 8
2/25/12 at 10:44am
My usual response to this kind of post is "RTM" but I downloaded the manual myself and it's pretty useless. It lists the various aspect ratio settings but gives no clue as to what they do, and doesn't list the various resolutions available via VGA on the spec page.

I don't have any expertise as far as the computer settings, but am familiar with aspect ratio settings on most tvs. Your set lists "Wide, Zoom, Cinema, and Normal".

As a general rule, "wide" or on many sets "full" behaves differently depending on the resolution the set's receiving. Typically when fed SD "Wide" will stretch a 4/3 image horizontally to fill the screen. The stretch will be uniform across the screen and objects on the screen will be "squished". When fed HD the set will display a normally proportionned widescreen image except on source material that is 4/3 with black bars on the sides inserted by the broadcaster or added by a dvd/bd player in "pillarbox" mode.

"Normal", when the set's fed SD scanrates, will display a 4/3 image with black bars on the sides with no stretching or squishing. When fed HD scanrates, "Normal" will horizontally compress the image into a 4/3 area with black bars on the sides. This is useful if you have an upconverting dvd player that does not "pillarbox" 4/3 movies or tv shows, otherwise you'd have a 4/3 image stretched horizontally. Your PS3 can be set to pillarbox 4/3 dvds.

So what your aspect ratio settings are doing with 1080p from your PS3 is normal.

Wish I could have been more help.
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post #3 of 8
2/25/12 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 
Ok, actually Steve S that was very illuminating. Thanks a lot for explaining that. I felt for sure something was up with the HD image appearing normal under the "wide" zoom. So I guess we can scratch that off the list of weird things.

Now the remaining question is how can the PS3 see it as a 1080p display while the computer can't. Does the PC "know" better than the PS3?

EDIT: Oh and actually, the manual, FCC listing, and specs page list the res as "1920 x 1080" but the PC obviously doesn't agree.
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post #4 of 8
2/25/12 at 12:58pm
I'm sorry I can't help with the PC problem as I'm not familiar with the vagaries of setting that up.

What I can say is that to the best of my knowledge (I sell tvs) nobody makes a 40" lcd panel with a resolution less than 1080x1920, and hasn't for the last 2 or 3 years, so I would be confident that your panel is 1080.
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post #5 of 8
2/25/12 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
What I'm thinking is that either

A) There are truly 1920 x 1080 pixels on the display, but there is something up with the chipset

B) There are 1360 x 768 pixels on the display and the chipset "fits" a 1080p image to it. -is that even possible? And if it is would it be a sketchy way to sell TVs?
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post #6 of 8
2/26/12 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindwarrior View Post

What I'm thinking is that either

A) There are truly 1920 x 1080 pixels on the display, but there is something up with the chipset

B) There are 1360 x 768 pixels on the display and the chipset "fits" a 1080p image to it. -is that even possible? And if it is would it be a sketchy way to sell TVs?

I vote very strongly for option A. In fact that was my first reaction to that anomaly when I first read your original post. mfgs do fudge numbers for things like contrast ratio but they could never get away with false specs for panel resolution.
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post #7 of 8
2/26/12 at 8:54am
Not knowing much about your display or PC this may be "spaghetti against the wall" but how is your PC connected, is it VGA? Your PC input on the display may only except a 1360x768 signal.
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post #8 of 8
2/28/12 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
I used Monitor Asset Manager to read the EDID. There are a couple interesting things here. For one, the EDID reports the display size as being 32.1 inches, when in fact it's 40. Is that significant?

It also lists its native resolultion as 1360 x 768. It has 4 detailed timings with the typical HD resolutions listed. Anybody know what's going on here?


Monitor
Model name............... SC32FI
Manufacturer............. SEK
Plug and Play ID......... SEK3201
Serial number............
Manufacture date......... 2011, ISO week 20
Filter driver............ None
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 710 x 400 mm (32.1 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.637 - Ry 0.325
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.286 - Gy 0.609
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.148 - By 0.058
White point (default).... Wx 0.279 - Wy 0.289
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 15-68kHz
Vertical scan range...... 59-61Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1360x768p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1360x768" 85.500 1360 1424 1536 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1440 x 900p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1680 x 1050p at 60Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
IT underscan............. Not supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1090 1125 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 720x480p at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.030 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.180 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
640 x 480p at 60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (4:3, 16:15)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 16:15)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 64:45)
1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96 kHz
AC-3 2-channel, 512k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
Channel configuration.... 2.0
Front left/right......... Yes
Front LFE................ No
Front center............. No
Rear left/right.......... No
Rear center.............. No
Front left/right center.. No
Rear left/right center... No
Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 2.0.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... No
Supports 30bpp........... No
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... No
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 165MHz

Report information
Date generated........... 2/28/2012
Software revision........ 2.60.0.972
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0051
Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,4C,AB,01,32,00,00,00,00,14,15,01,03, 80,47,28,78,0A,14,38,A3,53,49,9C,26,
0E,47,4A,A1,08,00,61,40,95,00,B3,00,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01, 01,01,66,21,50,B0,51,00,1B,30,40,70,
36,00,BA,88,21,00,00,1E,00,00,00,FF,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20, 20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,53,
43,33,32,46,49,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FD,00,3B,3D,0F, 44,0F,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,01,B1,
02,03,27,71,50,01,02,03,04,05,06,07,90,11,12,13,14,15,16,1F, 20,26,09,1F,07,11,07,40,83,01,00,00,
66,03,0C,00,20,00,80,02,3A,80,18,71,38,2D,40,58,2C,46,00,40, 84,63,00,00,1E,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,
10,10,3E,96,00,13,8E,21,00,00,18,8F,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10, 3E,96,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,18,FA,1C,80,
18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,9E,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,BF
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