or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Official Sony BDP-S590 and BDP-390 Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Sony BDP-S590 and BDP-390 Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 3999
I have been considering, Sony bluray players for a while now. Primarily for the SACD support. They seem to be the only ones offering it.

I zeroed down on the 480, but waited for the new models. I am in India. So all streaming video features are useless for me.

I do care about dlna. If it is good, then I can skip buying the ATV3, on which I intend to run xbmc.

I plan to connect the player with ethernet, so wifi is not really important. Would be useful for iPhone remote app.

Given this situation should I chose 590 over 480/580, given a $50/30 difference.
post #242 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justdhruv View Post

I have been considering, Sony bluray players for a while now. Primarily for the SACD support. They seem to be the only ones offering it.

I zeroed down on the 480, but waited for the new models. I am in India. So all streaming video features are useless for me.

I do care about dlna. If it is good, then I can skip buying the ATV3, on which I intend to run xbmc.

I plan to connect the player with ethernet, so wifi is not really important. Would be useful for iPhone remote app.

Given this situation should I chose 590 over 480/580, given a $50/30 difference.

Why don't you get the 390? That's a bit cheaper.

Xbmc and ATV 3 isn't available yet until jailbreak is available.

Xbmc and ATV 2 + HD content is a bag of hurt

Note, 480 and old firmware you might be able to avoid cinavia. 390, it will be difficult to avoid
post #243 of 3999
Only advantage 390 will have over 480 is wifi?

480 is 3D. Though I don't have 3d projector. I will prefer it, so that can upgrade when I want.
post #244 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justdhruv View Post

Only advantage 390 will have over 480 is wifi?

480 is 3D. Though I don't have 3d projector. I will prefer it, so that can upgrade when I want.

I would generally say the 2012 players are a tad more responsive in terms of menu navigation and alike. It's possible they gave it a bit more horsepower than the 2011 players. It's subtle though.

Also the 90 players have seperate settings for DVD and BD 24p playback. The 2011 players had that under one setting. The problem was for DVDs that weren't 24p compatible it would cause jerky playback. Although it was a auto setting it seemed to get easily confused.

This is entirely avoided on the 2012 players as the setting is separate
post #245 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I believe you, but again I don't think that the manual makes that clear. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that the player would not be able to decode the HD encodings to multichannel LPCM, which was Krutsch's comment. Again, I think that you interpretation is correct, its just not explicitly written.

It's not worth arguing about.

Well, for the BDP-S580, that's exactly what it does - it down-samples to the core dts track when converting to LPCM. That was explained to me by Sony technical support (higher level tech) who understood exactly what I was asking.

For Dolby TrueHD, this is not the case. The Sony BD players will decode to LPCM using the lossless codec (one of the advantages of Dolby TrueHD over dts-MA).

FWIW, I've also spoken with technical support persons at: Yamaha, Denon and Oppo to determine which players do/do not handle this correctly. I didn't even bother with the Sammy or Panny players on this issue.

The Sony tech was adamant: NONE of Sony's players will fully decode dts-MA (or HR) to LPCM - they will ALL use the core, lossy dts track.

Now, the real question is: does the 590 continue this behavior or does it now decode the lossless version to LPCM?
post #246 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krutsch View Post

Well, for the BDP-S580, that's exactly what it does - it down-samples to the core dts track when converting to LPCM. That was explained to me by Sony technical support (higher level tech) who understood exactly what I was asking.

For Dolby TrueHD, this is not the case. The Sony BD players will decode to LPCM using the lossless codec (one of the advantages of Dolby TrueHD over dts-MA).

FWIW, I've also spoken with technical support persons at: Yamaha, Denon and Oppo to determine which players do/do not handle this correctly. I didn't even bother with the Sammy or Panny players on this issue.

The Sony tech was adamant: NONE of Sony's players will fully decode dts-MA (or HR) to LPCM - they will ALL use the core, lossy dts track.

Now, the real question is: does the 590 continue this behavior or does it now decode the loss-less version to LPCM?

With all due respect. You're trying to find a solution to a issue that has its origins actually with the receiver, where it can't apply post processing to a DTS/DD high resolution bit-stream signal. Only PCM.

So in a way, the *real* issue, if I understand things correctly, is with the receiver. The Player is actually doing its job. The fact it may or may not be able to convert a high definition audio format to multi-channel PCM signal is more of a bonus than anything. I would also add, with all these conversions and post processing in the audio signal path chain, is it really worth it? Does it, or would it really sound that much better than the original ?
post #247 of 3999
So I picked up a 390 to replace my fat PS3 that won't load BD disks anymore and I'm not entirely happy with the change.

The 390's UI is majorly lacking in responsiveness and fluidity. That's not that big of a deal as I can still find what I want to find but it is certainly a major step back from the PS3. I expected some lack of fancy transitions, but not the lag I get when navigating. Button presses are fast, rendering on the screen is pretty slow.

But, the major thing setting me back is the Netlfix movie loading times. The PS3 would start extremely quickly and lock onto a fast stream right away. The 390 takes 10 times longer to start a show, and lags for a few seconds once the show starts. It does grab the X-High stream though.

On the plus side, the bootup times are fast, the Streaming picture quality is excellent, and the Netflix DD+ streams are passed intact to my receiver. If it wasn't for my broken disk drive on my PS3, I would be pretty disappointed in the change since it would be a big step back, but overall it's acceptable for just $130 and does have the big 3 streaming services in their MAX quality.
post #248 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoboy70 View Post


But, the major thing setting me back is the movie loading times. The PS3 would start extremely quickly and lock onto a fast stream right away. The 390 takes 10 times longer to start a show, and lags for a few seconds once the show starts. It does grab the X-High stream though.

Sounds like you're referring to NETFLIX streaming? Are you connecting WI-FI v Wired? Try Wired .. "just to see" if you are using a wireless connection. I'm not suggesting thats the way to sort it .. but at least worth experimenting with.

I have a wired connection to the router, and gets the stream going (and pretty much right to x-high, if available), in 5 seconds or so. (100mb/s down though).
post #249 of 3999
Ah, i noticed that I didn't mention I was referring to Netflix so I updated my post above.

Also, I am using a wired gigabit network. In fact, the same exact cable the PS3 used before I took it out of the cabinet.

Starting a show on the 390 takes about 5-10 seconds on Netflix, while the PS3 would start in about a second. I got used to that speed and 10 seconds seems like eternity now. It certainly seems like the player isn't doing the same stream switching that the PS3 did. The PS3 would start on a SD stream and ramp up to X-high seamlessly. It feels to me like the 390 picks a stream and stays on it which means that the 1080p streams are taking up to 10 seconds to start. I thought we were past that now. My Roku Classic locks onto a stream and doesn't let go unless your bandwidth drops, but I thought we were past that now with the new players switching between streams seamlessly.
post #250 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoboy70 View Post

Ah, i noticed that I didn't mention I was referring to Netflix so I updated my post above.

Also, I am using a wired gigabit network. In fact, the same exact cable the PS3 used before I took it out of the cabinet.

Starting a show on the 390 takes about 5-10 seconds on Netflix, while the PS3 would start in about a second. I got used to that speed and 10 seconds seems like eternity now. It certainly seems like the player isn't doing the same stream switching that the PS3 did. The PS3 would start on a SD stream and ramp up to X-high seamlessly. It feels to me like the 390 picks a stream and stays on it which means that the 1080p streams are taking up to 10 seconds to start. I thought we were past that now. My Roku Classic locks onto a stream and doesn't let go unless your bandwidth drops, but I thought we were past that now with the new players switching between streams seamlessly.

I've noticed at peak times (say Friday or Saturday night) ... certainly the S390/590 will start on a SD stream ... and maybe stay with it for longer than normal and then switch to HD. Does it without any issues though. No black flickers (like with the Panasonic 2011 players).
post #251 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoboy70 View Post

Starting a show on the 390 takes about 5-10 seconds on Netflix, while the PS3 would start in about a second.

Of the 7 or 8 Netflix playing devices that I've owned, the PS3 is the fastest starting (I thought that it had stopped starting fast but I find that it now takes a few extra seconds to start the first stream I try to play after running it and that subsequent streams during that session start within a few seconds). The PS3 has far more computing power and memory than any of the others, except for the Xbox 360. My 60GB launch model draws literally about 100 times as much power as a Roku 2 and probably 20 times as much as one of these BD players and gets a bit noisy when its fan cuts in after about 15 minutes. It also cannot bitstream Netflix's DD+ 5.1 sound to my AVR and its conversion of it to basic DD 5.1 is thin and weak by comparison.

You'll find that most Netflix players are a lot slower than the PS3 (even the Xbox, which doesn't have the excuse that these little STB embedded systems do). Playing around with them now I see that the S390 is the slowest of the 6 Netflix players that I currently have (PS3, Xbox, Roku 2 XS, TiVo Series 3, BDP-S390 and this PC), requiring a minimum of 15 seconds to start a stream and sometimes more than 20. (At around 12-13 seconds average, the TiVo is 2nd slowest, the Xbox takes about 8-10 seconds, the Roku starts in about 6 seconds and the PC is about as fast as the PS3. The Roku got significantly faster with its recent firmware update).

I love that the S390 has the PS3's Netflix info overlay display (toggled with the DISPLAY button) which lets you see exactly what you're getting right now. But the slow start up speed is definitely a mark against it.
post #252 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Wow. Sony Rewards were selling a limited number of the S590 today for $99, only if you have a Sony Card
post #253 of 3999
APW2607-

Where did you see the $99 price on the 590? I have a SONY card as well, but I see the $149 price.
post #254 of 3999
Well, I have decided not to go with a blu-ray player for my sunroom. Instead I ordered a WD TV Live Streaming Media Player (Newegg had it for $80 the other day). It has all the apps I was looking for and hopefully can stream my tons of DVD ISO's wirelessly (built-in wireless). So I am going disc free in this room. Hope I don't regret it later.
post #255 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by salrmrcrey View Post

APW2607-

Where did you see the $99 price on the 590? I have a SONY card as well, but I see the $149 price.

It was listed earlier under deal of the day but it's gone now ....
post #256 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krutsch View Post

Well, for the BDP-S580, that's exactly what it does - it down-samples to the core dts track when converting to LPCM. That was explained to me by Sony technical support (higher level tech) who understood exactly what I was asking.

For Dolby TrueHD, this is not the case. The Sony BD players will decode to LPCM using the lossless codec (one of the advantages of Dolby TrueHD over dts-MA).

FWIW, I've also spoken with technical support persons at: Yamaha, Denon and Oppo to determine which players do/do not handle this correctly. I didn't even bother with the Sammy or Panny players on this issue.

The Sony tech was adamant: NONE of Sony's players will fully decode dts-MA (or HR) to LPCM - they will ALL use the core, lossy dts track.Now, the real question is: does the 590 continue this behavior or does it now decode the lossless version to LPCM?


Whoever told you NONE of the Sony's player will fully decode dts-MA to LCPM is not well informed. I have a S770 and S780 and both decode DTS-MA to LCPM just fine. I can clearly see the "LCPM" on my receiver's display while playing a disc with a DTS-Master track.
post #257 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortiz View Post

Whoever told you NONE of the Sony's player will fully decode dts-MA to LCPM is not well informed. I have a S770 and S780 and both decode DTS-MA to LCPM just fine. I can clearly see the "LCPM" on my receiver's display while playing a disc with a DTS-Master track.

Yes, you are correct that the player will *decode* dts-MA to LPCM - but it will do it using the 'core' lossy dts track (i.e. the 1.5Mbps version, not the higher bit-rate lossless version).

And, yes, and in this case, LPCM will still show up on your receiver's display.
post #258 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

With all due respect. You're trying to find a solution to a issue that has its origins actually with the receiver, where it can't apply post processing to a DTS/DD high resolution bit-stream signal. Only PCM.

So in a way, the *real* issue, if I understand things correctly, is with the receiver. The Player is actually doing its job. The fact it may or may not be able to convert a high definition audio format to multi-channel PCM signal is more of a bonus than anything. I would also add, with all these conversions and post processing in the audio signal path chain, is it really worth it? Does it, or would it really sound that much better than the original ?

That's correct. The problem is with the AVR's lack of ability (in all low-end and most mid-range products) to both decode and apply digital signal processing to the high resolution DTS codecs. Your low-end BD player of choice should only need to properly read and output the bitstream version of the audio tracks on the disc.

I was simply replying to michaeltscott's posting on the topic. Whether it sounds better or is something you want to have is a question of personal preference.

For me the answer is 'yes': I want to take advantage of virtual surround modes, like Yamaha's Silent Cinema w/ headphones, and enjoy the full resolution audio on the Blu-ray.
post #259 of 3999
anyone on the fence for a 590, amazon has them for 134.99 (sold by amazon)
post #260 of 3999
Ok, so I am starting to think there is something wrong with my particular player. I've tried a few more Netflix streams and got some strange behavior. Maybe someone else can confirm for me if this is normal. When I start a Netflix stream, the buffering bar starts loading. It loads to about 1/3 of the way then stops. There is a pause of about 5 seconds and then either the audio starts playing, or the video starts playing with the other (video or audio respectively) starts playing after about 3 seconds. The stream will play fine for a few seconds, then the buffer starts again where it left off. Then the stream starts playing and sometimes plays the rest of the program. But, on several occasions it would shortly stop playing and give me an error that it is having trouble playing the stream. Two streams it failed on are the Mid-East Top Gear special and some Discovery Alaska survivor show I can't remember the exact name for.

I'm getting over it starting streaming slowly because the advantages of a cheap, silent, and low power box are pretty high, but if it fails on half the programs I try to watch, then it's pretty worthless to me.

Has anyone else experienced this?
post #261 of 3999
I've seen some similar behavior, including it refusing to play a stream (Blackhawk Down, I think), but I've seen that happen with other players (the Panasonic BDT110 for sure). I played a bit of the same stream on another player and then the S390 would play it without a problem.

This player is new to Sony with this model (as is a player with the same UI to the 2012 Panasonics) so there are doubtless a few bugs to be worked out. But even Roku, the original embedded Netflix player, has a few bugs.
post #262 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I've seen some similar behavior, including it refusing to play a stream (Blackhawk Down, I think), but I've seen that happen with other players (the Panasonic BDT110 for sure). I played a bit of the same stream on another player and then the S390 would play it without a problem.

This player is new to Sony with this model (as is a player with the same UI to the 2012 Panasonics) so there are doubtless a few bugs to be worked out. But even Roku, the original embedded Netflix player, has a few bugs.

Yea, I've noticed this too. I thought it was just a fluke, but now you guys mention it, I guess its some kind of bug. Its a small inconvenience, but not a show stopper (for me at least).

**update**

Tried Black Hawk Down a moment ago. No problems. Began playing quickly. X-High/DD+

Tried a movie that was causing issues yesterday .. no problems today.

In your Netflix Account info, you can select the stream you were having issues with and then provide more info. Probably worth doing. I can see Netflix trying to get this sorted more so that Sony.
post #263 of 3999
Thread Starter 
A new firmware update is available for the S590 (and probably S390) ...

M12.R.0320

I can confirm you cannot use ANY on-line service unless you update the firmware. This should help folks trying to avoid updating firmware for Cinavia reasons .....

I will report back if anything has changed ...
post #264 of 3999
Forgot the number but a firmware update is also available for the 390. As reported by APW2607 you can not use any on-line service unless you update the firmware.
post #265 of 3999
Thread Starter 
There are two changes that I've noted.

1) There is now a new main category on the XMB called "Recommendations" ....

2) Screen Settings > Screen Format works a bit differently than earlier firmware.

Before it scaled a mix of all DVD and "some" Internet video content when "Full" was selected. Now the setting is completely ignored with internet content. It still behaves as you would expect for DVD material though. So if you have "Full" selected, and you have a 16:9 TV, and you are viewing a 4:3 DVD, it would scale the screen to fit your 16:9 TV.

Funnily, I complained on the Sony USA forum's about the way Screen format worked for internet video content (in some instances ... crackle and flixster). If the internet video content was 2.35:1 (say a trailer) and "Full" was selected, the player would attempt to scale the image vertically as well as horizontal. This would be undesirable for 2.35:1 content. Perhaps Sony Engineering actually read the feedback and decided to change the behavior of the Screen format setting ... ?!!
post #266 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI Guy View Post

I just set up my 390. Netflix works great but I can't get it to show the photos and music from my home computer. My old 570 gets all my photos and music. Help!

Figured it out. Opps. I had not given the 390 permission to see the files from my computer.
post #267 of 3999
Can anyone tell me if the s390 has an optical port on it. I have the JVC ThBa1 soundbar and would like to use a fiber optic cable for connection.

Thanks for any info.
post #268 of 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

A new firmware update is available for the S590 (and probably S390) ...

M12.R.0320

I can confirm you cannot use ANY on-line service unless you update the firmware. This should help folks trying to avoid updating firmware for Cinavia reasons .....

I will report back if anything has changed ...

Wow - Sony is being as nasty to their standalone blu-ray player customers as they were to their PS3 customers over cinavia. I'm thankful I haven't any use or need or capability for Sony on-line services via my Sony blu-ray players . .
post #269 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reppa View Post

Can anyone tell me if the s390 has an optical port on it. I have the JVC ThBa1 soundbar and would like to use a fiber optic cable for connection.

Thanks for any info.

Check the very first post with all the tech details, but no optical port on the 390. The 590 has one though.
post #270 of 3999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

Wow - Sony is being as nasty to their standalone blu-ray player customers as they were to their PS3 customers over cinavia. I'm thankful I haven't any use or need or capability for Sony on-line services via my Sony blu-ray players . .

The on-line services are the best bit !!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Official Sony BDP-S590 and BDP-390 Thread