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Official Sony BDP-S590 and BDP-390 Thread - Page 32

post #931 of 3487
5/10/12 at 1:54pm
I may have overlooked the "subtitle on/off" feature. The remote is very minimal -- about half the size of all the other remotes I've seen. There's a context-sensitive on-screen popup menu you can invoke, though, which has many of the "missing" functions. Since it's context sensitive, though, it might be hard to preprogram the appropriate settings. On the other hand, there probably are many direct commands supported by the player that could be invoked by a Harmony programmable remote.

My projector doesn't have 3D either. The s590 includes an explicit "never output 3D" setting, although I forget where it is in the menu.
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post #932 of 3487
5/10/12 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

I understand (from reading a post by an upset buyer of the S590 at Amazon, who exchanged his S590 for an LG) that subtitle support for streaming media just isn't there.

It depends upon the streaming service; all of them will have burned in subtitles on non-English-language films. Netflix has closed captions for some titles which can be turned on and off, but not toggled with a button on the remote (you have to stop playback).
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post #933 of 3487
5/10/12 at 1:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

Yes, I just noticed this. Please let me jump into your thread. I'm not in the habit of returning things but I'm upset that my new (got it one week ago) Panasonic 220 blu-ray player makes me go through hoops to turn subtitles on and off. My old Momitsu V880 DVD player has a subtitle button on the remote. It doesn't let me choose a preferred subtitle language, but does allow me to sequentially go through them (e.g. English, Spanish, French, Off). I can do that without stopping a movie, a big plus. AFAIK, nothing like this is possible with the Panny 220. So, I figure to return it.

The Sony S390 and S590 have a Subtitle button on the remote. I'm trying to figure out what the support is for subtitles. Looking at the manual online (I can't find an English version for download, only 12 non-English language versions off Sony UK!), it appears I can select a preferred subtitle language. Can I then turn subtitles on/off with a single press of the Subtitle button on the remote? I'm talking about discs, DVD and blu-ray. I understand (from reading a post by an upset buyer of the S590 at Amazon, who exchanged his S590 for an LG) that subtitle support for streaming media just isn't there. I haven't gotten into streaming yet, but when I do, I won't be happy that subtitle support is missing, but my immediate concern is for my hundreds of DVDs, and upcoming Blu-rays.

Thank you for your help!

Subtitles are supported by some streaming services as well ... Eg. Netflix. Selection must be done via GUI though.
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post #934 of 3487
5/10/12 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I may have overlooked the "subtitle on/off" feature. The remote is very minimal -- about half the size of all the other remotes I've seen. There's a context-sensitive on-screen popup menu you can invoke, though, which has many of the "missing" functions. Since it's context sensitive, though, it might be hard to preprogram the appropriate settings. On the other hand, there probably are many direct commands supported by the player that could be invoked by a Harmony programmable remote.

My projector doesn't have 3D either. The s590 includes an explicit "never output 3D" setting, although I forget where it is in the menu.

Yes, selecting options also allows you to get to subtitles from overlay screen display GUI.
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post #935 of 3487
5/10/12 at 3:54pm
Not to change the subject but this is driving me insane.

On the Panasonic 220, via the youtube app, I was able to search through all of their videos. Not only that but the videos I've uploaded to youtube over the years, the Panasonic 220 saw them all. But with the Sony youtube app, when I run a search on lets say "Danzig", I only get about 40 results, and not because of a timeout, it just is pulling up 40 results. And when I pull up the "my video" section, I'm only seeing most of the videos I've uploaded. It seems like the ones that are blocked in some countries are some of the ones that won't show up. But Youtube says those videos are only blocked in Greece, so my player shouldn't have an issue since I'm not in Greece.

I checked my account on my pc, and it appears the videos that aren't showing on the Sony many of the ones that the label themselves put up on Youtube, and videos that are blocked outside of the US. Then when it comes to the Dailymotion app, I still haven't figured out how to get around the fact it only allows me to search through a small percentage of the videos on their service. So do the Sony players have some kind of drm/block feature that the Panasonics don't have? Or is there a setting somewhere on the S590 that I need to enable to get everything to show up?

Other than that, the S590 seems to be a bit better than the 220 pq wise, while the audio on both players just seems a bit less dynamic than the audo on my old N460.
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post #936 of 3487
5/10/12 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devianza View Post

Not to change the subject but this is driving me insane.

On the Panasonic 220, via the youtube app, I was able to search through all of their videos. Not only that but the videos I've uploaded to youtube over the years, the Panasonic 220 saw them all. But with the Sony youtube app, when I run a search on lets say "Danzig", I only get about 40 results, and not because of a timeout, it just is pulling up 40 results. And when I pull up the "my video" section, I'm only seeing most of the videos I've uploaded. It seems like the ones that are blocked in some countries are some of the ones that won't show up. But Youtube says those videos are only blocked in Greece, so my player shouldn't have an issue since I'm not in Greece.

I checked my account on my pc, and it appears the videos that aren't showing on the Sony many of the ones that the label themselves put up on Youtube, and videos that are blocked outside of the US. Then when it comes to the Dailymotion app, I still haven't figured out how to get around the fact it only allows me to search through a small percentage of the videos on their service. So do the Sony players have some kind of drm/block feature that the Panasonics don't have? Or is there a setting somewhere on the S590 that I need to enable to get everything to show up?

Other than that, the S590 seems to be a bit better than the 220 pq wise, while the audio on both players just seems a bit less dynamic than the audo on my old N460.

Not sure about the YouTube issue. How are you connecting the player in terms of audio ?
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post #937 of 3487
5/10/12 at 4:21pm
Just an HDMI cable from the back of the player to my Samsung LCD. THe Samsung has a few audio presents, Movie, Music, and Standard, I usually go with Standard. But the Youtube thign is really the pia that I may have to call and bitch out Sony about because it seems intentionally handicapped.
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post #938 of 3487
5/10/12 at 7:49pm
Can someone confirm if the BDP-S390 plays XVID over DLNA? I searched the thread and saw a nominal mention, but elsewhere I've seen contradictory statements. TIA. At $99 this player seems like a great deal, and ideal replacement for my aging Samsung BD-P3600, which I've tolerated long enough.
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post #939 of 3487
5/10/12 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psm0110 View Post

Can someone confirm if the BDP-S390 plays XVID over DLNA? I searched the thread and saw a nominal mention, but elsewhere I've seen contradictory statements. TIA. At $99 this player seems like a great deal, and ideal replacement for my aging Samsung BD-P3600, which I've tolerated long enough.

I just tried about 10 XviD clips on the S390 as served to it by TVersity (out of habit--they tell me Serviio's better) and they all ran just fine. They were all 1080p24 MPEG4 video in AVI containers with 5.1 channel AC3 sound at 640 or 448 Kbps.
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post #940 of 3487
5/11/12 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Pressing the remote's subtitle button repeatedly does step through the available subtitle languages on a BD or DVD without having to pause playback. There doesn't seem to be an explicit on/off, though I might have overlooked it. I always step through them all to get back to the "no subtitles" entry, That can be a pain on a disc with support for many languages. A HUD popup display shows the language selected.

There isn't:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21853889
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post #941 of 3487
5/11/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

There isn't:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21853889

Evidently the subtitle button just goes to the next subtitle language or Off, if you are at the last one. That sucks but it's what I've got with my previous player, a Momitsu V880. I've dealt with it by programming buttons on my MX-700 remote to give the subtitle button press 1, 2 and 3 times. It's a PITA, but it beats pressing one button several times, and it sure beats what the Panny 220 makes you do -- going into the Options menu and navigating several steps, that's mind bogglingly obtuse (I'm returning the Panny soon).
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post #942 of 3487
5/11/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Here is your HSL data, in a very quick, rough form. I'm guessing this is too complex to look at and quickly understand for most people, so feedback from anyone that's interested would be great, then I can improve it before it hits a review. This is just green, it's all I have the chart for right now. I really need to find a way to automate the chart code.

After studying your Green RGB Output Chart, I came to the following observations:

1) All the data seems to be valid within the 10% (25 counts) and 100% (255 counts).

2) The data looks interesting. It clearly shows that HUE error is not a problem, therefore GREEN does not shift from Yellow-green to Blue-green at all. That's good.

3) The SATURATION changes only slightly for most of the input range 25% - 100%. Not bad.

4) The combined effect of both of these facts would not even show any problems, if viewed on a 2-D CIE Diagram. Not good for making correct assessments.

5) The major contributor to the dE's is LIGHTNESS (or brightness) of Green over most of the input range 10%-90% stimulus. This becomes increasely bad as input goes from low 10% to high 90%. So, in the important 70-80% area it is about dE=10 for (1994) color error. Not good at all.

So, if you were using this player as a calibration source, it would definitely mess up the other source's output to the HDTV. That's bad.

I wanted to look at my HDTV system knowing these facts. So, I thought the S&M Color Bars should be perfect for seeing this error. Sure enough, the Green bar was brighter with the RGB output mode I had been using. Switching back to Ycc=4:2:2 and viewing the same color bar pattern the green bar became darker. This is only a relative and subjective test but it does agree with your objective data. That's nice! Any time the measurements agree to what we see, it is always a good sign.

I noticed that at about the 220 input (count) value the curves seem to all head to 0(%) error. I am wondering if this is the clipping point that I see in the S&M Clipping Green box? I see only a single large square with no internally nested squares. I wish S&M would have put numbers on the squares or at least documentation as to the levels in the boxes on that test pattern.

BTW the data as you have it displayed is very good for making assessments. The only small notes that I would make is to make the dE's lines BOLD so they are different than the HSL curves. Also, if the x-axis could have both counts and xx% labels it makes it easier to relate to actual testing stimuli. Showing the whole data range allow incites that a single dE number would not provide. The data is what it is, having both dE and HSL combined allows for detailed diagnosis. Others may see or make observations that would not be possible with just a dE number. Anyway, excellent work!
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post #943 of 3487
5/11/12 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma54321 View Post

After studying your Green RGB Output Chart, I came to the following observations:

1) All the data seems to be valid within the 10% (25 counts) and 100% (255 counts).

2) The data looks interesting. It clearly shows that HUE error is not a problem, therefore GREEN does not shift from Yellow-green to Blue-green at all. That's good.

3) The SATURATION changes only slightly for most of the input range 25% - 100%. Not bad.

4) The combined effect of both of these facts would not even show any problems, if viewed on a 2-D CIE Diagram. Not good for making correct assessments.

5) The major contributor to the dE's is LIGHTNESS (or brightness) of Green over most of the input range 10%-90% stimulus. This becomes increasely bad as input goes from low 10% to high 90%. So, in the important 70-80% area it is about dE=10 for (1994) color error. Not good at all.

So, if you were using this player as a calibration source, it would definitely mess up the other source's output to the HDTV. That's bad.

I wanted to look at my HDTV system knowing these facts. So, I thought the S&M Color Bars should be perfect for seeing this error. Sure enough, the Green bar was brighter with the RGB output mode I had been using. Switching back to Ycc=4:2:2 and viewing the same color bar pattern the green bar became darker. This is only a relative and subjective test but it does agree with your objective data. That's nice! Any time the measurements agree to what we see, it is always a good sign.

I noticed that at about the 220 input (count) value the curves seem to all head to 0(%) error. I am wondering if this is the clipping point that I see in the S&M Clipping Green box? I see only a single large square with no internally nested squares. I wish S&M would have put numbers on the squares or at least documentation as to the levels in the boxes on that test pattern.

BTW the data as you have it displayed is very good for making assessments. The only small notes that I would make is to make the dE's lines BOLD so they are different than the HSL curves. Also, if the x-axis could have both counts and xx% labels it makes it easier to relate to actual testing stimuli. Showing the whole data range allow incites that a single dE number would not provide. The data is what it is, having both dE and HSL combined allows for detailed diagnosis. Others may see or make observations that would not be possible with just a dE number. Anyway, excellent work!

Since YCbCr is perfect, I'm making assumptions here, but I'm guessing that what is happening is that the Y value is being increased before the RGB conversion, or it's using the wrong values for converting from YCbCr to RGB. Since Green is the brightest of the colors, Y has the most impact there, and once you get to a certain level (225 or so), you're clipping so if the value is 255 at that point, it can't go any higher as the input grows, so the error decreases. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I updated the graph some, giving it two Y axes: Left is DeltaE, which never goes negative, and right is HSL Percentage, which can. I also clipped the data below 16 as you'll never display that on screen (whereas you might display the content over 235), and the values there are so massive that it messed up how the chart looks. I'm still working on it, though.
LL
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post #944 of 3487
5/11/12 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

... Since Green is the brightest of the colors, Y has the most impact there, and once you get to a certain level (225 or so), you're clipping so if the value is 255 at that point, it can't go any higher as the input grows, so the error decreases. Does that make sense?

I'll have to think about it.
Quote:


Anyway, I updated the graph some, giving it two Y axes: Left is DeltaE, which never goes negative, and right is HSL Percentage, which can. I also clipped the data below 16 as you'll never display that on screen (whereas you might display the content over 235), and the values there are so massive that it messed up how the chart looks. I'm still working on it, though.

I agree the data below 16 count is not very useful and messy - better to omit. I think if you have two y-axises, I've found that that if you offset the two sets of data it becomes easier to read. You would have a group of HSL curves in the top half and 2 dE curves in bottom half. Both are present but neither set gets in the way of the others. Excellent for comparison purposes.
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post #945 of 3487
5/12/12 at 12:08am
Thread Starter 
Netflix and 590/390 or even 790 owners. Can someone verify this behavior. During Netflix content playback, pushing DISPLAY on the remote would toggle a special overlay showing you the stream quality and audio setting. The problem is, I can't get rid of the overlay once I push the DISPLAY button.

This is odd, because it use to toggle it. Now it just remains on the screen.

Is this the same for you? Not sure what if anything changed. Sony hasn't pushed new firmware out.

I'll post this in the S790 forum too.
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post #946 of 3487
5/12/12 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Netflix and 590/390 or even 790 owners. Can someone verify this behavior. During Netflix content playback, pushing DISPLAY on the remote would toggle a special overlay showing you the stream quality and audio setting. The problem is, I can't get rid of the overlay once I push the DISPLAY button.

This is odd, because it use to toggle it. Now it just remains on the screen.

Is this the same for you? Not sure what if anything changed. Sony hasn't pushed new firmware out.

I'll post this in the S790 forum too.

Yeah... I've noticed that, as well. Drove me crazy, until I discovered that if you wait a bit (30 seconds?) and then push the button again (only once) it will vanish. I kept pushing the button over and over to clear the info display and it would never go away. Then I gave up, waited and then pushed it one more time and ...poof... it was gone. That's a bug.
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post #947 of 3487
5/12/12 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Netflix and 590/390 or even 790 owners. Can someone verify this behavior. During Netflix content playback, pushing DISPLAY on the remote would toggle a special overlay showing you the stream quality and audio setting. The problem is, I can't get rid of the overlay once I push the DISPLAY button.

This is odd, because it use to toggle it. Now it just remains on the screen.

Is this the same for you? Not sure what if anything changed. Sony hasn't pushed new firmware out.

I encountered the same thing on my S590, but have found a workaround - pause the content, then press DISPLAY and it will toggle the overlay off.
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post #948 of 3487
5/12/12 at 8:27am
In my bedroom I had been using an Oppo DV-980H DVD player for movies and CD/SACD playback through a Yamaha RX-V1600 to my 720P Panasonic plasma and it worked great. To augment that I was using a X-Box 360 console as a media center to talk to my TVersity media server.

This setup worked great for a few years. Now that BluRay is mature and M$ decided to completely change the front end of the X-Box I've decided it's time to replace my Oppo with a BluRay player. The Sony BDP-S590 was on my short list and I bought one from Best Buy on Thursday.

It replaced my Oppo easy enough and with a quick reprogram my Harmony is working it like a champ. I just have a few issues and I'm wondering if you guys can help me.


1.) To many options on the menu. Is there a way to "turn off" or hide the services I don't want to reduce the menu size?

2.) MKV playback isn't working. I get an invalid file format error. I'm wondering if I shouldn't replace TVersity as my media server.

3.) NetFlix drop out. I have a 12M UVerse connection hard wired through two GigE switches (one at the modem, one at the AV rack) and it dropped out whilst watching a SD movie last night, then dithered the image quality. Maybe just a hiccup?

I really like the player other than that and would love to keep it rather than swapping it for the LG which has an awful menu or the Samsung which has... issues. The MKV playback thing is important to me as I really want to take that X-Box out of the cabinet.


Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
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post #949 of 3487
5/12/12 at 12:17pm
1) No. Panny can do that with apps, but not Sony.
2) Serviio has no issues with MKV in my experience, and it's free. AVI (Divx/Xvid) can be hit or miss.
3) No trouble here. Probably just a hiccup.
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post #950 of 3487
5/12/12 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Netflix and 590/390 or even 790 owners. Can someone verify this behavior. During Netflix content playback, pushing DISPLAY on the remote would toggle a special overlay showing you the stream quality and audio setting. The problem is, I can't get rid of the overlay once I push the DISPLAY button.

This is odd, because it use to toggle it. Now it just remains on the screen.

Is this the same for you? Not sure what if anything changed. Sony hasn't pushed new firmware out.

I'll post this in the S790 forum too.

Yes--I just tested this and the ability to turn that information overlay on and off is dodgy and I don't recall it being that way in the beginning. (I also noticed that the "subtitle" button will work intermittently to toggle CC on and off when they're available, if it worked more reliably, would make some of the people who've posted here quite happy). After pressing the DISPLAY button for a while the overlay seemingly will eventually turn off, but then getting it to turn on again become problematic.

My principle reason for siding with the Sony was its superior implementation of the Netflix player, but it's so very flaky. I still occasionally see it stop and rebuffer when displaying X-High/HD to resume at X-High/HD which makes no sense at all. At this point I'm back in the BDT220 corner and thinking that I won't try to use the BD player for Netflix or Amazon, just VUDU and the occasional disc.

(I thought of one other feature in the Sony's favor the other day, that being its PS3-like video info overlay, available during disc playback and playback on Sony implemented players like DLNA and USB drive video; it's very good. Still, it doesn't make up for all its bugs and quirks).
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post #951 of 3487
5/12/12 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

-snip- Still, it doesn't make up for all its bugs and quirks).

How possible is it that a lot of this will improve or clear up with firmware updates? The Panny 220 has a fairly recent update. Do the S390 and S590 Sony's?
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post #952 of 3487
5/12/12 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post

How possible is it that a lot of this will improve or clear up with firmware updates? The Panny 220 has a fairly recent update. Do the S390 and S590 Sony's?

The last sony update was the end of March. If this is a new bug, then I would speculate that Netflix isn't part of the firmware but may reside in RAM like some of the internet apps.

Panny has tons of updates, but some bugs are never fixed, like last year's black flashes. Sony is pretty good about updates and bug fixes.
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post #953 of 3487
5/12/12 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

The last sony update was the end of March. If this is a new bug, then I would speculate that Netflix isn't part of the firmware but may reside in RAM like some of the internet apps.

Netflix's UI is usuallly based on Webkit and probably involves a core Webkit engine with specific extensions in firmware while the rest of it gets dynamically downloaded every time you start it up, allowing Netflix to change the appearance and mechanics at will. Bugs in those extensions could be the cause of the problems.
Quote:


Panny has tons of updates, but some bugs are never fixed, like last year's black flashes. Sony is pretty good about updates and bug fixes.

I truly suspect that the black flashes problem was due to some hardware quirk and that it wasn't possible to fix it on that platform.

Anything can be fixed in firmware updates, the question being will the problems that bug me be fixed and when.
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post #954 of 3487
5/12/12 at 8:47pm
What does 590 does that 580 does not?
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post #955 of 3487
5/12/12 at 9:26pm
Hi All,

By reading all input in this and even in BDT220/320 thread i have decided to buy bdp-s590.

But i want to use it for audio also and wanted to know that if 590 has equalizer while playing audio CD or mp3 ?

Like bdt220 has and bdt320 is having tube sound? Please help.
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post #956 of 3487
5/12/12 at 9:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

1) No. Panny can do that with apps, but not Sony.

Thats technically not correct

Up to 8 user favorite apps can be saved using the SEN portal.
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post #957 of 3487
5/12/12 at 9:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by svikram View Post

Hi All,

By reading all input in this and even in BDT220/320 thread i have decided to buy bdp-s590.

But i want to use it for audio also and wanted to know that if 590 has equalizer while playing audio CD or mp3 ?

Like bdt220 has and bdt320 is having tube sound? Please help.

No equalizer.
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post #958 of 3487
5/12/12 at 9:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

What does 590 does that 580 does not?

Updated Netflix app for the most part.
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post #959 of 3487
5/12/12 at 9:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Yes--I just tested this and the ability to turn that information overlay on and off is dodgy and I don't recall it being that way in the beginning. (I also noticed that the "subtitle" button will work intermittently to toggle CC on and off when they're available, if it worked more reliably, would make some of the people who've posted here quite happy). After pressing the DISPLAY button for a while the overlay seemingly will eventually turn off, but then getting it to turn on again become problematic.

My principle reason for siding with the Sony was its superior implementation of the Netflix player, but it's so very flaky. I still occasionally see it stop and rebuffer when displaying X-High/HD to resume at X-High/HD which makes no sense at all. At this point I'm back in the BDT220 corner and thinking that I won't try to use the BD player for Netflix or Amazon, just VUDU and the occasional disc.

(I thought of one other feature in the Sony's favor the other day, that being its PS3-like video info overlay, available during disc playback and playback on Sony implemented players like DLNA and USB drive video; it's very good. Still, it doesn't make up for all its bugs and quirks).

As noted in the s790 thread, if you press pause after the overlay is displayed. You can push display again to turn it off. Not ideal.

Something else is going on. The subtitle button now displays netflix subtitles (I didn't notice that before) ... normally you had to select them from the Netflix GUI. This only works if the display overlay is shown though.

I think when Sony added the subtitle update, but then broke the display overlay feature a bit ... something tells me they are aware of it though. Should get it resolved. Not a showstopper.
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post #960 of 3487
5/13/12 at 2:15am
You can just hit the option button and display button to get rid of it during Netflix play.
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