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ONKYO? Never again!

post #1 of 61
Thread Starter 
The short version:

I bought a refurb NR1008 through Accessories4less, for a mere $849. I was betting on "old school" facts, that refurbs usually had the kinks fixed. Wrong.

So, I send my "$1500" AVR off to United Radio (Onkyo's main contract "fixer") 2wks before x-mas, and what happens? FedEx damages it in shipping. I'm made aware of it...two weeks later....and Fedex comes and gets it from UR...assesses it...and reships it back to UR within 3 days (not bad, right?). It takes over 2wks for me to find out that FedEx refuses to pay for the damaged cover ($65), so I gladly agree to pay out of pocket, knowing FE will do the right thing. Wrong. A "Return" label, which Onkyo issues, is not eligible for claims of damage. Nice.

So, FE tells me this...FE conforms this...and UR tells me to call Onkyo to make sure they cover it. OK..they do exactly that, and UR refunds my prepaid $65 for the damaged cover in shipping.

But it gets better; Onkyo promised UR that they were shipping the cover to my NR1008 every week, for over 3 weeks. UR was embarrassed enough to request a "complete replacement unit" on my behalf (not even MY request). Onkyo refuses. I called Onkyo 5 times after this...and never got a return call. I'm sure many here are ware of the "Leave your number at any time during the message" BS? . I had merely requested that Onkyo extend my warranty for the time that my unit was taken hostage. No reply. None!

By the way, my "repaired" NR1008 will arrive back to me on 2/29....well over 2 mths since it was sent off. I'm just waiting for it to fail again, within months, as per several other threads here stating similar experiences.

To be fair, United Radio was great. Onkyo? Awesome on the first call to get it shipped off to United Radio. After that? LOL, I can't begin to express my ill feelings toward this company!

Onkyo? NEVER again will I ever buy a product they make. Just sharing what other should know.
post #2 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

The short version:

I bought a refurb NR1008 through Accessories4less, for a mere $849. I was betting on "old school" facts, that refurbs usually had the kinks fixed. Wrong.

So, I send my "$1500" AVR off to United Radio (Onkyo's main contract "fixer") 2wks before x-mas, and what happens? FedEx damages it in shipping. I'm made aware of it...two weeks later....and Fedex comes and gets it from UR...assesses it...and reships it back to UR within 3 days (not bad, right?). It takes over 2wks for me to find out that FedEx refuses to pay for the damaged cover ($65), so I gladly agree to pay out of pocket, knowing FE will do the right thing. Wrong. A "Return" label, which Onkyo issues, is not eligible for claims of damage. Nice.

So, FE tells me this...FE conforms this...and UR tells me to call Onkyo to make sure they cover it. OK..they do exactly that, and UR refunds my prepaid $65 for the damaged cover in shipping.

But it gets better; Onkyo promised UR that they were shipping the cover to my NR1008 every week, for over 3 weeks. UR was embarrassed enough to request a "complete replacement unit" on my behalf (not even MY request). Onkyo refuses. I called Onkyo 5 times after this...and never got a return call. I'm sure many here are ware of the "Leave your number at any time during the message" BS? . I had merely requested that Onkyo extend my warranty for the time that my unit was taken hostage. No reply. None!

By the way, my "repaired" NR1008 will arrive back to me on 2/29....well over 2 mths since it was sent off. I'm just waiting for it to fail again, within months, as per several other threads here stating similar experiences.

To be fair, United Radio was great. Onkyo? Awesome on the first call to get it shipped off to United Radio. After that? LOL, I can't begin to express my ill feelings toward this company!

Onkyo? NEVER again will I ever buy a product they make. Just sharing what other should know.

congratulations. thanks for sharing.
post #3 of 61
I know that this doesn't apply to the original poster, but I'm glad that I bought my Onkyo's through Newegg with their extended warranty. Unit breaks/fails/is unrepairable - I get my full cost refunded to me.

I have an Onkyo (807) and while they make a "value" based product, they seem to have absolutely lacking in customer support. I don't think that anyone who owns an Onkyo should really expect for Onkyo to back up their products. If they do, consider it a bonus or fortunate luck.
post #4 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

I know that this doesn't apply to the original poster, but I'm glad that I bought my Onkyo's through Newegg with their extended warranty. Unit breaks/fails/is unrepairable - I get my full cost refunded to me.

I have an Onkyo (807) and while they make a "value" based product, they seem to have absolutely lacking in customer support. I don't think that anyone who owns an Onkyo should really expect for Onkyo to back up their products. If they do, consider it a bonus or fortunate luck.

Accessories4less gave me the option of buying an extended warranty, but I put it off for several months. While still under warranty, I contacted them to do exactly that. I was informed that it was too late (I believe after 90 days...can't be sure). You, the thing I didn't even bother to mention here, was that I never even opened the box for over 3mths after receiving it. Not normal, but I was on the verge of splitting with my wife, so....I have thus far enjoyed the unit for approx 6 or 7 weeks!

Again, to be fair, I absolutely love what this AVR is "supposed" to be. I originally purchased the NR1008 just to serve as a pre-amp head to be able to connect vintage amps to (pre-outs), but then found out that todays' AVR's don't have processing loops that allow for connecting my vintage dbx processing equipment. Greatly disappointed (not Onkyo's fault here...my own homework failed me), I went back to two separate systems; one for music, one for movies.

There are many great features that are really fantastic on this AVR, but....it won't change the impression I have with this company's response to a flawed line of products....that has been legendary here for over two series of models...or more!
post #5 of 61
Bad move...
Once a unit arrives damaged in transit, you should refuse acceptance..
Send it back!!
Depending upon how severe the jolt was internally the AVR can have multiple problems loose connectors, cracked PCBs..

FED-Ex, UPS once the package is delivered they are next to impossible to accept responsibility..

Just my $0.02...
post #6 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Bad move...
Once a unit arrives damaged in transit, you should refuse acceptance..
Send it back!!
Depending upon how severe the jolt was internally the AVR can have multiple problems loose connectors, cracked PCBs..

FED-Ex, UPS once the package is delivered they are next to impossible to accept responsibility..

Just my $0.02...

Problem is - they (Fed-Ex, UPS - perhaps we should refer to them as Fed-Ups?) ring the doorbell, then they drop the package at my door and run away like a thief in the night, before I even get a chance to answer the door so I can check for damage.

Got any suggestions about how to approach this type of scenario?

Knock on wood, I haven't had any problems with them for years but I've got some new gear coming in the next couple of weeks so the possibility of receiving goods that have been damaged in transit is fresh on my mind.

Cheers,
SB
post #7 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotcheckBilly View Post

Problem is - they (Fed-Ex, UPS - perhaps we should refer to them as Fed-Ups?) ring the doorbell, then they drop the package at my door and run away like a thief in the night, before I even get a chance to answer the door so I can check for damage.

Got any suggestions about how to approach this type of scenario?

Knock on wood, I haven't had any problems with them for years but I've got some new gear coming in the next couple of weeks so the possibility of receiving goods that have been damaged in transit is fresh on my mind.

Cheers,
SB

Sorry for any misunderstanding, but the unit arrived in perfect working condition. I was merely lamenting the fact that I've had 7wks "working time" since I un-boxed it.

But again, I even asked A4Less if the 1008 was as prone to HDMI failure as the "lower" lines, and I was told, "Yes, much lower." There are even more minute details that I haven't bothered to type out. But if you only knew...

I've been a CS, GM or Sales Manager for my entire career, and I work towards pleasing every customer. While I realize that the end result of everyone being happy isn't possible, these people don't even try...or care! Onkyo will never see another dime from me. Never.
post #8 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotcheckBilly View Post

Problem is - they (Fed-Ex, UPS - perhaps we should refer to them as Fed-Ups?) ring the doorbell, then they drop the package at my door and run away like a thief in the night, before I even get a chance to answer the door so I can check for damage.

Got any suggestions about how to approach this type of scenario?

Yup....
A couple of things..
1. If the carton is dented or smashed in..
Don't even open it, call the seller to send a pickup tag.
2. If the damage is concealed (not visible from the outside), then again contact the seller about sending it back.

During each step it is a good idea to take a couple of photos, it is better to have the seller work with the shipper as they will have more leverage. If the claim process gets locked up, contact the credit card company to put the payment in dispute. Also deal only with reputable, authorized sellers in many instances the buyer shops for the lowest price but when service followup is required it is non-existent..


Just my $0.02...
post #9 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Yup....
A couple of things..
1. If the carton is dented or smashed in..
Don't even open it, call the seller to send a pickup tag.
2. If the damage is concealed (not visible from the outside), then again contact the seller about sending it back.

During each step it is a good idea to take a couple of photos, it is better to have the seller work with the shipper as they will have more leverage. If the claim process gets locked up, contact the credit card company to put the payment in dispute. Also deal only with reputable, authorized sellers in many instances the buyer shops for the lowest price but when service followup is required it is non-existent..


Just my $0.02...

Reading comprehension really needs to be addressed in this country.
post #10 of 61
Onkyo's have terrible reliability when new. I can only imagine how bad the refurbs must be.

I'm not surprised at all how Onkyo treated you. They have more refurbs than every one else combined (I don't have facts to back this up. Just seems that way to me.) and if they had to back them, they would go out of business.
post #11 of 61
Thanks for the thread that helps me picking the Denon 3312 over Onkyo 809 just now. I was trying to save some bucks but after reading your thread, it is not worth the hassle.
post #12 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

Thanks for the thread that helps me picking the Denon 3312 over Onkyo 809 just now. I was trying to save some bucks but after reading your thread, it is not worth the hassle.

I wouldn't be so sure. Have you read customer reviews?
post #13 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Onkyo's have terrible reliability when new. I can only imagine how bad the refurbs must be.

Well, conventional wisdom would tell you that a refurb is a "as good as new product" that has the bug(s) worked out, and that it shouldn't repeat the same failure. I actually looked at this as an advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I'm not surprised at all how Onkyo treated you. They have more refurbs than every one else combined (I don't have facts to back this up. Just seems that way to me.) and if they had to back them, they would go out of business.

One from this worldwide forum would probably tend to agree. Again, I knew all too well of the possibilities of failure....and it simply came true. In the case of mine being a refurb, this failure(s) likely repeated itself, as there are many threads here that attest to this happening to "one owners".

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

Thanks for the thread that helps me picking the Denon 3312 over Onkyo 809 just now. I was trying to save some bucks but after reading your thread, it is not worth the hassle.

Denon was also high on my list before I chose. The $850 price just made it so tempting.....I jumped in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UndersAVS View Post

I wouldn't be so sure. Have you read customer reviews?

This is fair rationale above ^, and I'm quite sure that overall, most customers are happy. However, the fact that sequential production years for Onkyo have been plagued with the same issues....not a good sign of quality control. Not at all. But sure, at the end of the day, you'll always have a much larger percentage of people who didn't receive a unit that failed. This doesn't change the fact the company has a pathetically high failure rate...all dealing with the same basic issues!

And yes, the first guy I ever spoke to at Onkyo was very responsive and professional. However, it was after this initial point that it went to hell. When this same company won't return phone calls.....not cool at all. When they're too busy responding to other complaints to even call you back? Not a good sign.

But it gets even more clear, once you've been through this ordeal; United Radio (in NY, and a contract "fix-it" company) tells you that their business is off the hook because of the same recurring problems with Onkyo.....it doesn't take a genius to realize Onkyo has major design and/or production issues.

Again, let me be clear that I absolutely loved the unit and what it does...when it's working. And while it's true that I don't have confidence in their products, it's the customer service side that is so appalling that it brings me to the conclusion (not hard to reach for me here) that I will never consider buying from them again.
post #14 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

Accessories4less gave me the option of buying an extended warranty, but I put it off for several months. While still under warranty, I contacted them to do exactly that. I was informed that it was too late (I believe after 90 days...can't be sure). You, the thing I didn't even bother to mention here, was that I never even opened the box for over 3mths after receiving it. Not normal, but I was on the verge of splitting with my wife, so....I have thus far enjoyed the unit for approx 6 or 7 weeks!

Again, to be fair, I absolutely love what this AVR is "supposed" to be. I originally purchased the NR1008 just to serve as a pre-amp head to be able to connect vintage amps to (pre-outs), but then found out that todays' AVR's don't have processing loops that allow for connecting my vintage dbx processing equipment. Greatly disappointed (not Onkyo's fault here...my own homework failed me), I went back to two separate systems; one for music, one for movies.

There are many great features that are really fantastic on this AVR, but....it won't change the impression I have with this company's response to a flawed line of products....that has been legendary here for over two series of models...or more!

I still have an NR-807, and it's still operating fine (knock on wood), but I've been astonished at the number of reports of failed HDMI boards that have crept up. That's not a big issue on its own, but what makes it bad is the way in which Onkyo has been addressing the problem.

I still think it's bad though that it didn't work out of the box, even if it had sat for some time. I just know that I would never purchase anything refurbed without the manufacturer backing it up (Harman offers a warranty identical to new with refurbs) more than 90 days. It's not worth it, unless if the savings is sizeable versus new (say - more than 30%)

I normally don't consider extended warranties to be worth much in many cases, but I did buy a Marantz 300 disc dvd changer from AC4L, and the company that provided the extended warranty never once gave me a problem.
post #15 of 61
Why didn't you return it to the place you purchased it from if it was defective?
post #16 of 61
Quote:


Well, conventional wisdom would tell you that a refurb is a "as good as new product" that has the bug(s) worked out, and that it shouldn't repeat the same failure. I actually looked at this as an advantage.

I can see how one might think that way, but my hunch is when they get a returned product, they run a few basic tests to see if the unit works in general (All amps working, inputs working, etc...). They don't test the 100 or so things an AVR is capable of. Many times the unit will work fine when cold, but when it gets hot and expands, open circuits form. It's not like a used AVR has to pass inspection like a used car.
post #17 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

Reading comprehension really needs to be addressed in this country.

Whole heartedly agree 100%. See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc1 View Post

Why didn't you return it to the place you purchased it from if it was defective?


If you read the whole thread you would not have asked this question.
post #18 of 61
Maybe you and this guy can swap brands.
post #19 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Maybe you and this guy can swap brands.

Or do a three-way trade with this guy:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi...t-1328838.html

I had a VSX-24TX that had a design flaw with the DSP board that caused loss of audio (just google vsx-24tx dsp issue) . I would have stuck with Pioneer if they had just acknowledged this known issue. I was a loyal Pioneer customer at the time. But to make me prove to them that they were aware of this problem, I had to do a ton of research, including digging up the service bulletin. When I showed them the service bulletin, then they suddenly remembered.

I never bought a Pioneer audio item again. I had no choice but to cave in to them for my plasma needs.

On the other hand, if it weren't for Pioneer and their decision to jerk me around with the receiver, I never would have discovered Anthem and Paradigm. I've also enjoyed a couple of Integra items.
post #20 of 61
I never purchased a ONKYO product because I just could not get myself to say it and feel dignified. It sounds like a Donkey braying to me.

But I digress...
post #21 of 61
Then I would say you have an odd taste in listening selections!

But seriously, fair enough, no doubt you have something that sounds good to you, and it's not Onkyo. I have 2 Onkyo AVRs, and as luck would have it they have been perfect without any issues whatsoever. One's going on 5 yrs old, the other 4.

But I think I'll evolve towards separates, maybe get an amp next year and in a couple more years get a prepro for my 7.1 system.
post #22 of 61
I post this because some say only negative feedback responses are ever posted.

I've owned 3 Onkyo's myself and have had no issues ever thankfully. 807, 885, and a 708. The 708 is attached to my TV and plays all the time when the TV is on. Very happy with it and it's still ticking after a year.

I also own two Denon's, 4310 and a 4311. The 4310 crapped out with the infamous network card issue. I did know about this before purchasing, thanks to this site, and replaced it myself when it went up.

One brand I have had terrible luck with is Rotel. Each of the 4 Rotel componenents I have purchased has failed, just outside of warranty. I would buy an Onkyo over Rotel always now.

All in all I've been lucky with Onkyo.
post #23 of 61
The moral of the story:

Avoid a refurb, but if you have to for some reason, get the extended warranty along with it!
post #24 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjmwj View Post

I post this because some say only negative feedback responses are ever posted.

I've owned 3 Onkyo's myself and have had no issues ever thankfully. 807, 885, and a 708. The 708 is attached to my TV and plays all the time when the TV is on. Very happy with it and it's still ticking after a year.

I also own two Denon's, 4310 and a 4311. The 4310 crapped out with the infamous network card issue. I did know about this before purchasing, thanks to this site, and replaced it myself when it went up.

One brand I have had terrible luck with is Rotel. Each of the 4 Rotel componenents I have purchased has failed, just outside of warranty. I would buy an Onkyo over Rotel always now.

All in all I've been lucky with Onkyo.

I was with you 'til you started in on Rotel. Rotel tomatoes are awesome!
post #25 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdjmwj View Post

I post this because some say only negative feedback responses are ever posted.

...Each of the 4 Rotel componenents I have purchased has failed, just outside of warranty. I would buy an Onkyo over Rotel always now.

Sound like amazing engineering to me. Use parts that will last JUST long enough to bypass any warranty work. Probably saving many cents in the process (components being pretty cheap, as things go)
post #26 of 61
My take on the "this brand versus that" argument is that no manufacturer is squeaky clean. Reading user comments reveals a lemon in almost every brand and price point. Price has no relevence.

Off the top of my head, I can name a few blatant issues:

Many of the Denon models suffered when the Networking features were used. The Onkyo 808 is popular because of its price and feature selection, but had problems. Oppo's failed power supply on one of the upconverting DVD players was an issue that was partially remedied by great customer support. Marantz had problems with DTS-HD playback and networking features.

Based upon user comments, Yamaha seems to be very reliable.

I wouldn't write off any of those manufacturers or suggest that Yamaha is the only Receiver worth buying. Yet, I strongly advise reading user reviews to get a good idea of the risks.
post #27 of 61
Good thread.
I suppose that well-known HDMI problem caused Onkyo more damage than any other problems combined. Before I purchased 5007 (top line receiver) I investigated Yamaha status and find many posts world-wide of deteriorating quality, failures, 'chinese crap' parts inside. I had used Yamaha received for years before that, but I decided to go with Onkyo. Now after 2 years of their faulty HDMI X007 line release worldwide forums are filled with the cries of outrage to Onkyo customer care. My 5007 (once warranty expired - HDMI failed) is already 4 months in repair and the attitude I get from Onkyo Europe and their local reps cast so many doubts about Onkyo future. If their newest top-line products suffer from poor design and poor components and creepy service (full of cheap Chinese capacitors) what will become of their budget products.
post #28 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxruss View Post

Good thread.
I suppose that well-known HDMI problem caused Onkyo more damage than any other problems combined. Before I purchased 5007 (top line receiver) I investigated Yamaha status and find many posts world-wide of deteriorating quality, failures, 'chinese crap' parts inside. I had used Yamaha received for years before that, but I decided to go with Onkyo. Now after 2 years of their faulty HDMI X007 line release worldwide forums are filled with the cries of outrage to Onkyo customer care. My 5007 (once warranty expired - HDMI failed) is already 4 months in repair and the attitude I get from Onkyo Europe and their local reps cast so many doubts about Onkyo future. If their newest top-line products suffer from poor design and poor components and creepy service (full of cheap Chinese capacitors) what will become of their budget products.

Well stated. Another irony here? That before logging in to find my thread, I simply scanned down each page. What did I find? More threads on Onkyo failures and issues with their CS, overall.

My unit is finally back...and working as it should. However, I am just counting the days until it fails again.

As for "defenders" of Onkyo, I understand their point. However, they're not looking at the bigger picture here. Yes, every company produces models that have failures....but Onkyo is king of the hill here...with amazingly, the very same, repeated issues...over the course of several years models. In other words, they either haven't figured out the specific problem...or they just don't care (and won't do the right thing to take a costly manufacture/part change). I'm guessing the latter. In the end, they lose, big time. They are no doubt bleeding money and losing customer base at an alarming rate.

Again, for the comprehension impaired here....this AVR rocks...when it works. I'll cross my fingers in hopes of a second fix being the cure....
post #29 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

As for "defenders" of Onkyo, I understand their point. However, they're not looking at the bigger picture here. Yes, every company produces models that have failures....but Onkyo is king of the hill here...with amazingly, the very same, repeated issues...over the course of several years models. In other words, they either haven't figured out the specific problem...or they just don't care (and won't do the right thing to take a costly manufacture/part change). I'm guessing the latter. In the end, they lose, big time. They are no doubt bleeding money and losing customer base at an alarming rate.

Incorrect..
Actually, Onkyo global sales increased 14% in 2011 vs. 2010 with strong sales performance in Western Europe and Australia/New Zealand. Also a siginificant % of their reported failures are due to improper user installation for ventilation. An AVR needs at least 3" of free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover, also no component should be stacked on top. The lack of adequate ventilation raises the AVR's internal temperature significantly, and heat shortens significantly its reliability and life.

Just my $0.02..
post #30 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Incorrect..
Actually, Onkyo global sales increased 14% in 2011 vs. 2010 with strong sales performance in Western Europe and Australia/New Zealand. Also a siginificant % of their reported failures are due to improper user installation for ventilation. An AVR needs at least 3" of free-air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover, also no component should be stacked on top. The lack of adequate ventilation raises the AVR's internal temperature significantly, and heat shortens significantly its reliability and life.

Just my $0.02..

What part is your two cents? Sales or improper installation? I don't see any reference cited, so that it makes it all irrelevent
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