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Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 5

post #121 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

It seems cheap for a 15 incher, but i am supprise to see it only goes down to 25hz.

The enclosure is rather small for a ported 15, I'm surprised it isnt tuned to 35hz.
post #122 of 2778
I'm also in the market for a budget sub for a recently completed theater room.

My room is in the basement carpet over concrete and measures 18.5 x 15.5 x 8.2 close to 2400 cf. I have a set of Swan Diva speakers all around being driven by a Marantz pre. with a Marantz amp running at 150 watts pc. I have had the speakers and electronics for several years but this is the first time i have been able to have all of them set up at the same time. This being a newly completed full basement remodel or addition funds are a little low at this time. I'm looking mostly for a sub for HT use as I usually use only the mains when listening to music. Any recommendations for a sub say $450 or less. I see where there is a deal on the PA 150 for around $300 and this looks like it might fit my needs. Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

Previous sub was stolen a while back so i do not have one for comparison in this room.
post #123 of 2778
jbl ES 250p,
great sub for starters claims that the sub goes down to 25hz. I own it and it punch some bass on action films . my two cents http://www.amazon.com/JBL-ES250PBK-1...8775312&sr=8-1
post #124 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

jbl ES 250p,
great sub for starters claims that the sub goes down to 25hz.

Best not to rely on that manufacturer spec. There are quite a few 12" subs under $500 that claim that, and typically they don't actually achieve it with any significant output. Most likely that JBL ES 250p is not much different from the BIC PL-200 in that regard.
post #125 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

jbl ES 250p,
great sub for starters claims that the sub goes down to 25hz. I own it and it punch some bass on action films . my two cents http://www.amazon.com/JBL-ES250PBK-1...8775312&sr=8-1

Thanks for contributing your two cents - that's precisely what this thread is for. I'm glad you like the JBL sub. As Charlie said, you do need to be cautious of putting too much faith in the numbers most manufacturers list in their specifications. If the sub works for you that's the most important thing though. How long have you owned it?
post #126 of 2778
Does anybody know how the Energy S10.3 might compare to an Alison AL-10? I already have the AL-10 and its pretty good, but it can sometimes be a bit boomy and has lots of port noise and chuffing during demanding music/movies. I keep hearing great reviews of the 10.3 and am wondering if it is worth the upgrade.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=309-177
post #127 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerboy2000 View Post

Does anybody know how the Energy S10.3 might compare to an Alison AL-10? I already have the AL-10 and its pretty good, but it can sometimes be a bit boomy and has lots of port noise and chuffing during demanding music/movies. I keep hearing great reviews of the 10.3 and am wondering if it is worth the upgrade.

I don't have any practical experience with them, so I can only surmise, but my suspicion is that the Energy would be quite a bit better. One of the things often cited with the 10.3 is that it can be musical, a designation not bestowed upon a "boomy" sub. Proper music reproduction requires clarity and detail, which is probably not the Alison's strong suit, but it seems as though it may be with the 10.3.
post #128 of 2778
Mirage Omni S8 subwoofer $140 at Amazon via WWStereo. If it's anything like it's big brothers, the Mirage Omni S10 and Energy S10.3, should be a good deal for an 8".
post #129 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Mirage Omni S8 subwoofer $140 at Amazon via WWStereo. If it's anything like it's big brothers, the Mirage Omni S10 and Energy S10.3, should be a good deal for an 8".

Thanks. I added it to the Budget Subwoofers thread.
post #130 of 2778
Just a heads-up to anyone interested in a Dayton Sub-1200 12" 120 Watt Subwoofer. Parts Express has it on a Father's Day special for $99.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-629&utm_source=Retail&utm_medium=Email_Newsletter&utm_content=300-629&utm_campaign=email060712

There's also a few other nice bargains to be had such as the small Dayton Audio Bookshelf B-652 Speakers for $29 and the Lepai 45w Mini-Amp for $37.
post #131 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Bob View Post

Just a heads-up to anyone interested in a Dayton Sub-1200 12" 120 Watt Subwoofer. Parts Express has it on a Father's Day special for $99.

That's pretty tricky of them; normally it's $129 with free shipping, now it's $99 with $15 for shipping. The net result is you're only saving around $15.
post #132 of 2778
Based on what I have read in this thread and others, I am between the Energy S10.3 and the BIC America F-12. I keep reading that the Energy is more "musical", but the BIC F-12 has some really good reviews as well. Price-wise, they're pretty much dead even. $192 for the BIC and $219 for the Energy. I do listen to a lot of music, so accurate reproduction of music is pretty important to me.

So, between those two, which would pair better with my Infinity Primus P363 speakers for music and home theater?
post #133 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

That's pretty tricky of them; normally it's $129 with free shipping, now it's $99 with $15 for shipping. The net result is you're only saving around $15.

One could add some random cheap item just to get the $100 free shipping

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=081-1105

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwatt357 View Post

Based on what I have read in this thread and others, I am between the Energy S10.3 and the BIC America F-12. I keep reading that the Energy is more "musical", but the BIC F-12 has some really good reviews as well. Price-wise, they're pretty much dead even. $192 for the BIC and $219 for the Energy. I do listen to a lot of music, so accurate reproduction of music is pretty important to me.
So, between those two, which would pair better with my Infinity Primus P363 speakers for music and home theater?

The Energy is better all around. More accurate response, and more output below 40hz.
post #134 of 2778
I had the previous generation JBL sub-E250P and it was alright. It was the only sub I could afford ($220) at that time that did NOT bottom out in the Darla raps the tank scene in Finding Nemo every other budget sub I could afford (Yamaha YST-SW215, Klipsch KSW-10) would bottom out.

Then I moved up to a Hsu VTF-3 Mk.2 .......... and suddenly understood what the hype was all about. When you start out putting together a HT, its very difficult to rationalize a $650+ sub. It's something that you have to live, hear, feel and learn.

Oh another note, the PA-150 has some interesting specs:
Quote:
Originally Posted by From the Overstock site 
Wattage: 250 (rms) - 1000 watts (peak power)

I always thought that continuous RMS watts to peak/dynamic RMS watts was roughly a 2x factor, here they are saying its a 4x factor (from 250 to 1000).

Why would it change by the type of amp you have? Shouldn't it be a linear function?
post #135 of 2778
OK. I am FINALLY ready to pull the trigger on a budget sub upgrade for my non-dedicated HT. Usage will be 100% movies. Budget is $200, but I can go a smidge higher if it is absolutely necessary. The subs I have been considering are the BIC F12 ($200), Lava LSP-10 ($209), PA-120 ($249), and the Polk PSW505 ($199). I would usually not even consider a Polk sub, but I understand that the PSW505 is a rare exception I should keep in mind. It's current sale price at NE is why it is on the list.

The sub will join a pair of Monitor 60s for mains, CS1 center, and a pair of Yamaha surrounds left over from my old HTiB setup. The sub will be replacing the POS sub that came with that HTiB setup. Current sub is a massive 50 watts RMS and 6.5" driver.rolleyes.gif, so I'm sure any of the subs mentioned would be an insanely huge upgrade from what I have. No real set size requirements, but don't want to go much larger than any of the ones mentioned above.

Room is 12x18x8 and does have an opening to another room. I'm sure I could benefit from a better sub (eD, HSU, etc), but it just isn't in the cards right now. Don't have the means to redirect savings any further, as all my available funds are about to go towards college for my son. So I'm ready to purchase today or tomorrow, while I still can. lol.

One more thing I should mention is that I don't currently have a receiver capable of room calibration. I am using an old Onkyo TX-SR304. It is next on the list to be upgraded though. Probably something like a Denon 1612 or 1912.

Any advice, comments, input is greatly appreciated! And feel free to recommend other subs that meet my criteria. Thanks!!!


On edit: Guess I should also throw the Energy S10.3 in the mix, since it is at $189 right now at NE.
Edited by 4fit? - 6/25/12 at 12:46pm
post #136 of 2778
Thread Starter 
The BIC probably has a bit more output then the Energy does, while the Energy is perhaps a little cleaner. Both of those could easily handle your room too. The PA-120 is more then likely going to slot somewhere between them; not quite as much output as the BIC, not as articulate as the Energy. The Polk is fairly good for a HT setup, especially given the price, but I would rate it as the 4th option. Personally, I wouldn't consider the 10" Lava; the 12" perhaps, but the 10" is going to be the least capable of the lot.
post #137 of 2778
The Energy S10.3 has been tested by Home Theater and Sound&Vision. I can remember that in one of those tests, the Energy was down only 3 db at 24Hz. That is pretty darn good for $189 (delivered). smile.gif
post #138 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

The BIC probably has a bit more output then the Energy does, while the Energy is perhaps a little cleaner. Both of those could easily handle your room too. The PA-120 is more then likely going to slot somewhere between them; not quite as much output as the BIC, not as articulate as the Energy. The Polk is fairly good for a HT setup, especially given the price, but I would rate it as the 4th option. Personally, I wouldn't consider the 10" Lava; the 12" perhaps, but the 10" is going to be the least capable of the lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

The Energy S10.3 has been tested by Home Theater and Sound&Vision. I can remember that in one of those tests, the Energy was down only 3 db at 24Hz. That is pretty darn good for $189 (delivered). smile.gif

Yeah, the Energy is an amazing sub. I am often suprised with how great it sounds for music and HT stuff. I actually think it does a great job with HT material too.

What makes me hesitate in getting the Energy over the F12 is that we are talking about a 10" driven sub vs a 12". That can be significant.
post #139 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

What makes me hesitate in getting the Energy over the F12 is that we are talking about a 10" driven sub vs a 12". That can be significant.

In general terms I agree with you, but realistically the only true significant factor is the results. The Energy, by all accounts, can do quite a lot, and do it cleanly as well. Of the subs you listed I would probably go for that one first, primarily because I'm a fan of clarity over almost all else. The S10.3 seems to have good extension as well, so it isn't as though you're giving anything up.
post #140 of 2778
Thanks for all the replies thus far guys! Greatly appreciated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

In general terms I agree with you, but realistically the only true significant factor is the results. The Energy, by all accounts, can do quite a lot, and do it cleanly as well. Of the subs you listed I would probably go for that one first, primarily because I'm a fan of clarity over almost all else. The S10.3 seems to have good extension as well, so it isn't as though you're giving anything up.
So, S10.3 over the F12, even though the only music material I will listen to will be in movie soundtracks? I was thinking that the F12 would have better bottom end results for HT material. But it sounds like the S10.3 does respectfully well in that area also. Now I'm torn. mad.gif lol

At this point, I think I'm leaning towards the F12 simply because of Amazon's awesome return policy. If I get it and just can't get the sound I am after, I can just send it back and get the S10.3 or something else. Then again, if you guys think the S10.3 would be the best bet, I'm mighty inclined to just go with it in the first place.

Thoughts?
Edited by 4fit? - 6/25/12 at 4:42pm
post #141 of 2778
The S10.3 will actually be stronger between 40-25hz then the Bic, the Bic will be stronger above 40hz. This makes the Energy a better choice for HT.
post #142 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The S10.3 will actually be stronger between 40-25hz then the Bic, the Bic will be stronger above 40hz. This makes the Energy a better choice for HT.
Never would have thought that. So, it sounds like you, Jim, and a few others think the S10.3 is the choice over the F12. May have to pull the trigger on that instead. But I have been reading some pretty disheartening reports about their customer service. If issues should ever arise, that would suck to deal with. I am more confused now then when I started this thread. Ugh! haha.
post #143 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4fit? View Post

Never would have thought that. So, it sounds like you, Jim, and a few others think the S10.3 is the choice over the F12. May have to pull the trigger on that instead. But I have been reading some pretty disheartening reports about their customer service. If issues should ever arise, that would suck to deal with. I am more confused now then when I started this thread. Ugh! haha.

I haven't heard of many complaints regarding their customer service, but that isn't something I've researched myself either. Perhaps someone else more familiar will comment.

Jay1 is correct; on the lower frequencies the Energy will probably best the F12. When watching a movie a lot of the "wow" factor is in the 50Hz-60Hz range, so if a sub has additional output -- volume essentially -- in that range it will seem as though the bass is better (that would be the F12). However, for true LFE the big gains are to be had lower then that. The F12 starts to run out of gas faster then the S10.3 does, so while you may get a bit more of a gut punch from the F12 the real bass, the truly low stuff, will be more pronounced with the Energy. With the additional clarity it seems to posses the overall improvement in quality and extension would be beneficial for HT applications.
post #144 of 2778
Jay1 and JimWilson, what allows you to come to the conclusion that the Energy will perform better from 25Hz to 40hz? I have seen the FR charts on the Bic F12, and it does seem to drop off pretty hard after 32Hz. The Energy stays pretty strong until around 27Hz.

I was huge on getting subs that dig low and can get to 20Hz. After spending $1k on duals subs to attain this, I realize that it is cool; however, by far the minority of the effects of a sub. It is the mid-bass that packs a punch and adds most of the fun in HT set-ups. As I said, I have the Energy s10.3 in my bed room. It does go low, and does so very clean. I have it corner loaded, so that helps.

I would guess that the F12 would have better mid-bass, and may be the better overall sub for rooms that are not "small". I just ordered the F12 even though I own the S10.3 and LOVE it in my BR. The F12 will be going to New Orleans while my S10.3 will be in Dallas (Irving). If I can transport one or the other, you better believe there will be a sub shoot out!!cool.gif



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391243/bic-v1220-and-bic-f12-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs

http://www.hometheater.com/content/energy-take-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures
post #145 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Jay1 and JimWilson, what allows you to come to the conclusion that the Energy will perform better from 25Hz to 40hz? I have seen the FR charts on the Bic F12, and it does seem to drop off pretty hard after 32Hz. The Energy stays pretty strong until around 27Hz.
...
I would guess that the F12 would have better mid-bass, and may be the better overall sub for rooms that are not "small". I just ordered the F12 even though I own the S10.3 and LOVE it in my BR. The F12 will be going to New Orleans while my S10.3 will be in Dallas (Irving). If I can transport one or the other, you better believe there will be a sub shoot out!!cool.gif



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1391243/bic-v1220-and-bic-f12-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs

http://www.hometheater.com/content/energy-take-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures


This ^ I want to hear about.

I think you are right. I'd wager the BIC is the superior home theater sub, for reasons I've expressed in other similar threads lately. (I've only heard the BIC F12 and V1220, never the energy -- so I am hazarding a guess based on review of testing data and my positive experience with the BIC F12)
Edited by Archaea - 6/25/12 at 9:06pm
post #146 of 2778
I went over this in the cadence 15 review thread
post #147 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

It is the mid-bass that packs a punch and adds most of the fun in HT set-ups. As I said, I have the Energy s10.3 in my bed room. It does go low, and does so very clean. I have it corner loaded, so that helps.
I would guess that the F12 would have better mid-bass, and may be the better overall sub for rooms that are not "small".

Perhaps our definition of "better" differs then. For me -- and Jay1 it seems -- having an exaggerated mid-bass, at the expensive of true low bass, is not ideal. To an extent it's a false representation of the soundtrack, and essentially amounts to simple embellishment. There are both fans and detractors to that style of sound reproduction. You seem to be the former, while we're the latter. That's neither bad nor good, just different; some favor a more faithful reproduction, others do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

I just ordered the F12 even though I own the S10.3 and LOVE it in my BR. The F12 will be going to New Orleans while my S10.3 will be in Dallas (Irving). If I can transport one or the other, you better believe there will be a sub shoot out!!cool.gif

I would be curious to hear about your findings as well. If you are able to do that let us know what the outcome is. Either way, I hope your new F12 turns out to be exactly what you want.
post #148 of 2778
Thanks Jim. I actually prefer accurate and articulate bass over SPLs. From my experience, the masses do not. They prefer loud bass with mid slam. This is why I selected the F12 for my brother who has his listening area in a large room opening to other rooms.

I agree that audio is all based on preference and taste. Here is a link to the final posts I had on a 5 page thread that summarized my journey in upgrading subs.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1197370/more-power-more-problems/150#post_18097407

No need to post on that thread as it is 2 years old now. It just summarizes where my preferences are for low frequency reproduction.
post #149 of 2778
I started a thread with this question, but I think it belongs here.


I'm looking to upgrade my sub without breaking the bank. I currently have a Velodyne VA-1012X that I bought back in 1994. My receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX-01,my front speakers are the BIC HT-75's. center is a BIC HT-65, and the rear's are Boston Acoustics VRS Micro. I was reading a lot of good things about the BIC F12, and was wondering if that would be an upgrade from the Velodyne. I'm not unhappy with the Velodyne, but I'm thinking sub technology has probably gotten better since 1994. Here are the specs on the Velodyne:

671
post #150 of 2778
I think you may be not find the bic f12 to be a worthwhile upgrade from your velodyne, unless all you crave is a bit more volume. You may need to up your budget expectation. A bit to see a worthwhile upgrade. The extra price allows you to expierence the lower frequencies.

Btw - Why are you unhappy with the velodynee?

Typically the bic f12 is a good "first sub" recommendation. And the 500 to 700 range normal price subs are the next real significant upgrade.
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