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Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 6

post #151 of 2778
I totally agree with Archea. It is not worth "upgrading" from the Velo, unless you plan on investing an amount much greater than the Velodyne. If you were going to spend $500 on a sub upgrade, I would than say it would be a notable difference.

In that thread I posted above, I started with a 10" slot ported Velodyne (DLS-3750). I upgraded to a $1k sub, and honestly still prefered the in-room performance of my Velo. It took 100s of hours and another sub upgrade for me to finally decide that I am happy with my sub upgrade from the Velodyne.

Best wishes!
post #152 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I think you may be not find the bic f12 to be a worthwhile upgrade from your velodyne, unless all you crave is a bit more volume. You may need to up your budget expectation. A bit to see a worthwhile upgrade. The extra price allows you to expierence the lower frequencies.
Btw - Why are you unhappy with the velodynee?
Typically the bic f12 is a good "first sub" recommendation. And the 500 to 700 range normal price subs are the next real significant upgrade.

I never said I was unhappy with the Velodyne. If you read my question again, I wrote that I wasn't unhappy. My main reason for upgrading would be simply based on the Velodyne being 18 years old. I was thinking that sub technology has improved since I bought it in 1994. Based on that, is it worth an upgrade, or has the technology not really changed?
post #153 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

I never said I was unhappy with the Velodyne. If you read my question again, I wrote that I wasn't unhappy. My main reason for upgrading would be simply based on the Velodyne being 18 years old. I was thinking that sub technology has improved since I bought it in 1994. Based on that, is it worth an upgrade, or has the technology not really changed?

No!
post #154 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

No!

That's a "no" to the F12, or upgrading period?
post #155 of 2778
Hello Everybody, this is a great site. I have the Onkyo SKS-HT870 Home Theater Speaker System, coupled with my Yamaha rx-v671. Running 7.1 and the sub is great. My room is 11 X 17. Movies and Music sounds great.
post #156 of 2778
It would be worthwhile upgrading if you set your sights a little higher. As deepstang said, wait until you are ready to spend $500 to $600. Internet direct companies like SVS, HSU, Outlaw Audio, and Epik offer great subs that are excellent values.
post #157 of 2778
Would it be better to upgrade my sub, or just add a sub?
post #158 of 2778
In my opinion, it is NOT worth getting the F12 if your Velodyne 10" is working without any issues. As Archea said, it would not be a really noticeable "upgrade" to get the F12 vs your current set-up. If you are going to upgrade, budget a little more money. Yes, the F12 has a 12" driver; however, to have a noticeable improvement in low frequency reproduction, I would say you would need to get something like the SVS PB12 or the HSU VTF2.

Keep in mind that there is the concept of diminishing returns. You are at a good point now. It would take a lot more money to start making improvements. Example, you may spend twice the money (50% more) of your current Velodyne to get maybe a 15% improvement. This is not a bad thing, but something to keep in mind. If you have the upgrade bug, and it is a chronic condition that won't resolve, you know what to do wink.gifbiggrin.gif

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd
post #159 of 2778
FrontRoom.png 41k .png file

I have $500 to spend. Should I look at a single $400-500 sub or two in the $200-250 range.

This is my first sub.
I'm looking for an all rounder as in 50/50 music/HT.
My room is 21x13 with an 11x4 bay window on one side.
The ceiling slopes from 8ft to just over 10ft in the 13ft direction.

I know there are several good options out there.
Please let me hear your opinions and suggestions.

Thanks,
LouieIV smile.gif
post #160 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

In my opinion, it is NOT worth getting the F12 if your Velodyne 10" is working without any issues. As Archea said, it would not be a really noticeable "upgrade" to get the F12 vs your current set-up. If you are going to upgrade, budget a little more money. Yes, the F12 has a 12" driver; however, to have a noticeable improvement in low frequency reproduction, I would say you would need to get something like the SVS PB12 or the HSU VTF2.
Keep in mind that there is the concept of diminishing returns. You are at a good point now. It would take a lot more money to start making improvements. Example, you may spend twice the money (50% more) of your current Velodyne to get maybe a 15% improvement. This is not a bad thing, but something to keep in mind. If you have the upgrade bug, and it is a chronic condition that won't resolve, you know what to do wink.gifbiggrin.gif
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd

So basically, these budget subs are good for the money, but don't compare to the more expensive subs? I was under the impression that some of these budget subs perform as well as the higher priced subs, and that's why people were buying them.
post #161 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouieIV View Post

FrontRoom.png 41k .png file
I have $500 to spend. Should I look at a single $400-500 sub or two in the $200-250 range.
This is my first sub.
I'm looking for an all rounder as in 50/50 music/HT.
My room is 21x13 with an 11x4 bay window on one side.
The ceiling slopes from 8ft to just over 10ft in the 13ft direction.
I know there are several good options out there.
Please let me hear your opinions and suggestions.
Thanks,
LouieIV smile.gif

Hey Louie!

I would confidently say invest in 1 sub with that money (vs 2). I think a HSU sub would be a great sub to fit your taste. Also, don't be afraid of looking for a mildly used sub. Example, you may be able to find a HSU Vtf3-mk3 in that price range.

If this is your first sub, you may be in for a pleasant surprise smile.gif
post #162 of 2778
LouieIV,

1 higher quality sub for $500-$600 range beats 2 subs for $250 because a $500 + sub should, if chosen wisely, play down to 20hz range, and a $250 sub is only going to play to 30hz.

1 outlier to this generic rule is the Klipsch RW-12D because it's an old $700 retail model and constantly on clearance for $300 to $350 at newegg. it plays strongly down to about 22hz.
post #163 of 2778
biglen,

your velodyne sub is already capable of most anything the BIC F12 is capable of except for a perhaps a few extra dB of volume. An upgrade would be a sub that reach down to 20hz. Those types of subs don't cost $200.
post #164 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

So basically, these budget subs are good for the money, but don't compare to the more expensive subs? I was under the impression that some of these budget subs perform as well as the higher priced subs, and that's why people were buying them.

These budgets subs are great for the money. In most cases, they are a better performing product than a Sony, Onkyo or other subs found in a similar price range in "brick and mortar" electronic stores (ex Best Buy). In most cases, you do get more sub for the money vs the "more expensive subs" that you may find in local electronic stores.

That Klipsch sub is a great example. It used to sell for $800 at BB all day long. At that time period, ID subs were more affordable, and I could have picked out several internet direct subs that could out perform that Klipsch sub. At this price point it is a great value, and a strong performer for the price.
post #165 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

biglen,
your velodyne sub is already capable of most anything the BIC F12 is capable of except for a perhaps a few extra dB of volume. An upgrade would be a sub that reach down to 20hz. Those types of subs don't cost $200.

+1

Well said!
post #166 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

So basically, these budget subs are good for the money, but don't compare to the more expensive subs? I was under the impression that some of these budget subs perform as well as the higher priced subs, and that's why people were buying them.

If they performed as well, nobody would buy anything else! smile.gif I have a couple of budget subs (one in my game room, one in my computer room), and an Outlaw LFM-1 EX. My budget subs don't even come close to comparing to my EX. A stack of these budget subs wouldn't come close, either. I paid $549, including shipping, for my EX, so we aren't talking a ton of money, but sometimes a budget won't allow for an extra $300-$400 over the cost of a budget sub, so that is why there are discussions around both. Also, there is no way I could justify the cost and size of an EX for my computer. wink.gif
post #167 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Hey Louie!
I would confidently say invest in 1 sub with that money (vs 2). I think a HSU sub would be a great sub to fit your taste. Also, don't be afraid of looking for a mildly used sub. Example, you may be able to find a HSU Vtf3-mk3 in that price range.
If this is your first sub, you may be in for a pleasant surprise smile.gif

So going with the single sub approach.
These are what have caught my interest based on what I've read here and over on blu-ray.com.

Shipped prices
Rumba 12 617
VTF-2 MK4 582
ED A3-250 450
ED A3-300 600
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus 620
Epik Legend 585
Emotiva X-Ref 12 594

So really I should only be looking at the ED A3-250 as it is the only one within my budget, but if I feel like I really need to I think I could stretch to accommodate one of the others. The Rumba 12 really intrigues me if it can handle my room size. Am I missing anything? Which of these would work best for my room size. The room also has hardwood on slab flooring, not sure if that matters. I'd also like to point out that I'm not a hard core bass guy, but I do want my music and movies to sound as close to the artists intent as possible.

Newbie needing help choosing.
Thanks,
LouieIV smile.gif
post #168 of 2778
ED has a reputation for bad product reliability and poor customer service.

Since you are interested in using your sub for both movies and music, I would recommend eliminating the Emotiva and Rumba from consideration since the other subs have better low end response.
post #169 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

ED has a reputation for bad product reliability and poor customer service.
Since you are interested in using your sub for both movies and music, I would recommend eliminating the Emotiva and Rumba from consideration since the other subs have better low end response.

I hadn't heard that about the ED's, I have heard Epik has an ongoing amp problem.

I'm a noob so maybe these aren't what I think, but I thought these numbers from the Rumba compared quite favorably???
10Hz - 86dB
12.5Hz - 91dB
16Hz - 97dB
20Hz - 98dB
25Hz - 106dB
31.5Hz - 109dB
40Hz - 110dB
50Hz - 107dB
63Hz - 114dB
80Hz - 116dB
100Hz - 109dB
125Hz - 105dB
(copied from JimWilson over in the Rumba owners thread)

As far as the Emotiva that is kinda what I gathered.

Thanks,
LouieIV
post #170 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouieIV View Post

I hadn't heard that about the ED's, I have heard Epik has an ongoing amp problem.
I'm a noob so maybe these aren't what I think, but I thought these numbers from the Rumba compared quite favorably???
10Hz - 86dB
12.5Hz - 91dB
16Hz - 97dB
20Hz - 98dB
25Hz - 106dB
31.5Hz - 109dB
40Hz - 110dB
50Hz - 107dB
63Hz - 114dB
80Hz - 116dB
100Hz - 109dB
125Hz - 105dB
(copied from JimWilson over in the Rumba owners thread)

I didn't realize he had numbers now. That can work smile.gif
post #171 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

ED has a reputation for bad product reliability and poor customer service.

Heed this advice; eD is struggling pretty bad. Check out the owners thread and you'll see a lot of those folks are having issues.
post #172 of 2778
If your split is 50/50, don't focus on getting the most sub for the money, focus on getting the right sub for the job. I know that the HSU and Outlaw sub would be a good fit. I agree that the eD subs may not be the best choice. I have not been a fan of their electronics warranty, and I think they are more geared for HT. There may be some July 4th sales, so try and wait for another week before pulling the trigger. Rythmik is also a good company for balanced subs. They get pricy, but this is a good option too:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html

Too bad they are out of stock frown.gif
post #173 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html
Too bad they are out of stock frown.gif

They are redesigning the FV12 and won't have more stock until after that's done and they get in the new model from their supplier. Supposed to be several months, according to the Rythmik owners thread.
post #174 of 2778
I ended up pulling the trigger on a Energy S10.3 sub right around a month ago. I like it thus far, but I do have a couple of questions for those who also own this sub.

About a day or two ago, the blue LED power indicator on the front started doing what I have read that many of these do. First, a one (or a couple) of the blue LED's went out, significantly dimming the light. You really could only see that it was on if you looked at it straight on. From an angle, you couldn't see any blue light. Then today it appears that all of the lights failed. No blue lights at all when the sub comes on.

With the power light failing so quickly and having read numerous accounts of the same thing happening to other owners of this sub, it makes me wonder, "what's going to fail next?" Are the other components of the sub (amp, driver, connectors, etc.) made well enough that I shouldn't be concerned? Have any other Energy S10.3 sub owners experienced anything else besides the blue LED's failing prematurely?

Would it even be worth the trouble of returning it to NewEgg? I did send an email to Energy regarding the matter, but since I only did that today, I don't expect to receive a response for at least another day or two.

Anyone else experiencing other issues with these subs?

Thanks!
Edited by hiwatt357 - 7/17/12 at 8:19pm
post #175 of 2778
People report that light failing all the time, with no problems after that. It's just the LED that fails. If you want more opinions on that, best place to ask is in the Energy Owners Thread.
post #176 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

People report that light failing all the time, with no problems after that. It's just the LED that fails. If you want more opinions on that, best place to ask is in the Energy Owners Thread.

I suppose that I thought there might be an "Energy Owner's Thread" within the Subwoofers, Bass and Transducers section, but when I searched for one, there didn't seem to be one. That is why I posted within this thread, since appeared to be a place for "discussions, opinions and questions" regarding budget subwoofers, the Energy S10.3 being among such.

I have read about several instances of the LED light failing, some within 10 days and some within a month, but these were primarily reviews on consumer websites with no real long-term feedback. I shall post my question in the "Energy Owner's Thread", but part of me expects to be re-directed to the "Subwoofers, Bass and Transducers" section.
post #177 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwatt357 View Post

I suppose that I thought there might be an "Energy Owner's Thread" within the Subwoofers, Bass and Transducers section, but when I searched for one, there didn't seem to be one. That is why I posted within this thread, since appeared to be a place for "discussions, opinions and questions" regarding budget subwoofers, the Energy S10.3 being among such.

You didn't do anything wrong by posting your question in this thread, so no problems there. I think you may have misconstrued what Charlie was attempting to do though; I suspect he was trying to point you to an area where you might be able to get more specific information about Energy products. Having said that...

It seems you're correct - there is no "official" Energy subwoofer thread. Not sure how that could have happened, considering there are so many people who own them. I remedied that by creating one, which you can access here. Maybe you can be the first person to post something, just to get the ball rolling. smile.gif
post #178 of 2778
Hey Guys,

I was wondering what sub I should buy for my 13x13x8.5 home theater, my budget is between $200-$300. I've read around and I am really confused, so I'm looking for some sort of starting point.

Thanks for the help!
post #179 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anoop99 View Post

Hey Guys,
I was wondering what sub I should buy for my 13x13x8.5 home theater, my budget is between $200-$300. I've read around and I am really confused, so I'm looking for some sort of starting point.

What's the rest of your equipment (receiver, speakers, etc)?
post #180 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

What's the rest of your equipment (receiver, speakers, etc)?

For receiver I've chosen the Denon 2312, I do have yet to buy it though(going to buy it all at once). Now for speakers I will probably buy new ones, but I found some old sound dynamics speakers at my parent's house(2x RTS-1, 1x RTS-C1, and 2x RTS-7). I have no idea if those are any good , and I'm fully open to buying new ones eventually but at the moment i don't have a huge budget. So if you have a suggestion for speakers (for the future) and sub, or if these speakers are worth keeping that would all be extremely helpful.

Thanks for the help!
Edited by anoop99 - 7/29/12 at 6:27pm
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