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Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 8

post #211 of 2778
Hey guys - I have a room that is 20' x 11' x 8' with an 8' wide opening to a dining area that is 12' x 12' so probably about ~3000sq/ft to fill. My fronts currently have their own amps in the lower half of the unit - Polk Audio RT3000p - so I already have decent punchy base but I want to add the low low low effects as the 8" drivers just don't get down there. Here are the specs on my fronts:

Total Frequency Response 18Hz - 26kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 26Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 25kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
Efficiency 92 dB

Amp specs:
Dynamic Power Output 600
Continuous Average Output 300w @ 4 Ohms

I need something that'll complement these and fill in the lower part of the spectrum. Any recommendations? My music/movies/games is about a 30/40/30 split. I'll likely be going with just one sub initially and would like to keep it that way if possible but if two would make an appreciable difference, I would consider getting a second. My total budget at the moment is 500-600, but would like to keep it lower if at all possible.
post #212 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


If the ceiling for that entire area were only 10' you would have almost 6000 cubic feet to fill. eek.gif There isn't a $250 subwoofer made that can manage that. Realistically, you would have to start at 4-5 times your budget to get anything approaching decent output.

Along with the two you're already looking at check out the Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15. It probably won't be a musical sub, but being a 15" driver it might cope with that room better. Another option to consider would be a pair of Dayton SUB 1200's. Getting two subwoofers would allow you to place them in such a manner as to help mitigate some of the expansive space.

Do you think I would benefit from simply pairing the new sub with the 10" downfiring Onkyo factory sub? How would I be able to tell if I need to phase the BIC/Polk?
post #213 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdustinb View Post

Hey guys - I have a room that is 20' x 11' x 8' with an 8' wide opening to a dining area that is 12' x 12' so probably about ~3000sq/ft to fill. My fronts currently have their own amps in the lower half of the unit - Polk Audio RT3000p - so I already have decent punchy base but I want to add the low low low effects as the 8" drivers just don't get down there. Here are the specs on my fronts:
Total Frequency Response 18Hz - 26kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 26Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 25kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
Efficiency 92 dB
Amp specs:
Dynamic Power Output 600
Continuous Average Output 300w @ 4 Ohms
I need something that'll complement these and fill in the lower part of the spectrum. Any recommendations? My music/movies/games is about a 30/40/30 split. I'll likely be going with just one sub initially and would like to keep it that way if possible but if two would make an appreciable difference, I would consider getting a second. My total budget at the moment is 500-600, but would like to keep it lower if at all possible.

In the $500-600 range you are moving out of what many people would consider the budget sub class into the lower enthusiast sub class range. HSU, Outlaw Audio, and Epik all make 12" subs at around that price which are some of the best values and would work well for your situation.
post #214 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfrey0118 View Post

Do you think I would benefit from simply pairing the new sub with the 10" downfiring Onkyo factory sub? How would I be able to tell if I need to phase the BIC/Polk?

Multiple subs is often considered to be a better choice then a single unit, depending upon your particular circumstances of course. However, integrating disparate subs can be a challenge because of there different capabilities. If you want to use the Onkyo sub as a mid-bass module only, then you may be able to pull it off. But honestly, I'd ditch the HTiB sub and go with something that has more abilities on it's own.
post #215 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

In the $500-600 range you are moving out of what many people would consider the budget sub class into the lower enthusiast sub class range. HSU, Outlaw Audio, and Epik all make 12" subs at around that price which are some of the best values and would work well for your situation.

I'm still curious, could I get something in the 200-300 range capable of what I'm looking for though? If I can, I'd much rather spend less than my total budget. If not, would it be better to go with two budget subs or a single lower enthusiast sub?
post #216 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdustinb View Post

I'm still curious, could I get something in the 200-300 range capable of what I'm looking for though?

For the most part, probably not. The Klipsch RW-12d might hold it's own in a space that size, and can be had for $300 when on sale, so that's a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdustinb View Post

If I can, I'd much rather spend less than my total budget. If not, would it be better to go with two budget subs or a single lower enthusiast sub?

Personally, I would probably go with something like dual Energy S10.3's then a single $500 sub. That would enable you to balance out the sound more.
post #217 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

For the most part, probably not. The Klipsch RW-12d might hold it's own in a space that size, and can be had for $300 when on sale, so that's a possibility.
Personally, I would probably go with something like dual Energy S10.3's then a single $500 sub. That would enable you to balance out the sound more.

Would you recommend dual Klipsch RW-12D's over dual Energy S10.3's? I found a pretty good sale on the Klipsch that's comparable to the current sales on the Energy.

Total frequency response on the Klipsch is 24-120Hz +/-3dB vs the Energy's 21-120Hz +/- 3dB. That generally means the Energy can provide deeper bass, yes?
post #218 of 2778
Is there any guy get the Jamo SUB650?

any suggestion? looks like the SUB650 and RW-12d in the same price range. which is better?
post #219 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdustinb View Post

Would you recommend dual Klipsch RW-12D's over dual Energy S10.3's? I found a pretty good sale on the Klipsch that's comparable to the current sales on the Energy.
Total frequency response on the Klipsch is 24-120Hz +/-3dB vs the Energy's 21-120Hz +/- 3dB. That generally means the Energy can provide deeper bass, yes?

If those numbers were accurate, then yes the Energy would go deeper. But they've been supplied by the manufacturers themselves, so caution is advised.

As far as which is better... my own proclivity is towards quality over quantity so I would probably side with the Energy, by the slimmest of margins. I don't think either is a bad choice though, so you should be fine regardless of which you opt for.
post #220 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTTOG View Post

Is there any guy get the Jamo SUB650?

Mine won't arrive until Tuesday, so I can't tell you anything about it just yet.
post #221 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Mine won't arrive until Tuesday, so I can't tell you anything about it just yet.

you are lucky to buy it before Vanns bankruptcy. I am worry about to order from them now.
post #222 of 2778
I am looking for advice to get a decent Sub for my family room. I currently have 5 satelite speakers hooked up to a Denon Receiver and I'm missing the bass. This is mostly for TV, Music, and Movies. I'm looking to spend less than $200 (around $150 would be ideal but could go to $200). My only problem is that I don't have much room to put this so it needs to be small. I see that most subs are either 10" or 12". Does anyone make a good sub that is smaller or am I better off just getting 10". What sub can give me the best boom for the buck?

Thanks.
post #223 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTTOG View Post

you are lucky to buy it before Vanns bankruptcy. I am worry about to order from them now.

Chapter 11 bankruptcy is reorganization, so they should continue to operate as though nothing has happened. Some creditors could run into an issue, but customers should be fine.
post #224 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdustinb View Post

Would you recommend dual Klipsch RW-12D's over dual Energy S10.3's? I found a pretty good sale on the Klipsch that's comparable to the current sales on the Energy.
Total frequency response on the Klipsch is 24-120Hz +/-3dB vs the Energy's 21-120Hz +/- 3dB. That generally means the Energy can provide deeper bass, yes?

sale? all i have been able to find is the usual list price. or ones beat to death on ebay with $50-90 shipping. care to share source?
post #225 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jking12 View Post

I am looking for advice to get a decent Sub for my family room. I currently have 5 satelite speakers hooked up to a Denon Receiver and I'm missing the bass. This is mostly for TV, Music, and Movies. I'm looking to spend less than $200 (around $150 would be ideal but could go to $200). My only problem is that I don't have much room to put this so it needs to be small. I see that most subs are either 10" or 12". Does anyone make a good sub that is smaller or am I better off just getting 10".

How big is a "small" subwoofer in this case? That word will mean vastly different things to different people. Also, what size is your room?
post #226 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Chapter 11 bankruptcy is reorganization, so they should continue to operate as though nothing has happened. Some creditors could run into an issue, but customers should be fine.

yeah, who knows, maybe backruptcy is the first step, like the circuitcity. hopefully not.
post #227 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumby181 View Post

sale? all i have been able to find is the usual list price. or ones beat to death on ebay with $50-90 shipping. care to share source?[/]

unfortunately the seller who had five available listed it wrong and re-priced it after I nearly ordered two rolleyes.gif
post #228 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

How big is a "small" subwoofer in this case? That word will mean vastly different things to different people. Also, what size is your room?

The room is about 18x13. I really don't know what "small" means in terms of a sub woofer. I guess a sub that is around 12"x12" would be ideal for me but not sure a decent sub can be that small. I guess I'm really looking for a good sub for a good price and the smaller it is, the better.

Thanks.
post #229 of 2778
The smaller the sub enclosure and the smaller the driver, the more amplifier power and better driver it will need to compete with subs with larger drivers. If the sub absolutely has to be very small, I would recommend looking at the Lava LSP08 or Mirage Omni S8. But even those 8" subs may be challenged in your room at louder volumes.
post #230 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jking12 View Post

The room is about 18x13. I really don't know what "small" means in terms of a sub woofer. I guess a sub that is around 12"x12" would be ideal for me but not sure a decent sub can be that small. I guess I'm really looking for a good sub for a good price and the smaller it is, the better.

Like Cel said; for a subwoofer size matters. 12x12 is definitely on the small side, so expect commensurate performance. For HT it's struggles will be especially acute.

Along with the ones already suggested a few others perhaps worth considering are the Audioengine S8, Acoustic Audio HD-SUB10, Cambridge Audio S90 and the OSD PS-10. Not all of them meet your budget target, but most are close. Size-wise they're in the ballpark too.
post #231 of 2778
hi, Jim,

Did you get the Jamo SUB 650 today?
post #232 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTTOG View Post

Did you get the Jamo SUB 650 today?

According to UPS's website I do, but I haven't been home from work yet to check. If I get the chance tonight I'll unbox it and see what it sounds like.
post #233 of 2778
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

According to UPS's website I do, but I haven't been home from work yet to check. If I get the chance tonight I'll unbox it and see what it sounds like.

Great. waiting for your first hand testing results.
post #234 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTTOG View Post

Great. waiting for your first hand testing results.

Unfortunately, me and the Jamo have had a very inauspicious beginning...

It took 10 days to get here, which doesn't thrill me right off the bat. UPS -- Universal Package Smashers -- lived up to (down to?) their reputation and beat the crap out of the box. mad.gif It was only single boxed too, so shame on Vann's for being so careless.

Someone needs to teach Jamo how to design packaging it seems. Not only was the crappy hard styrofoam the only protection, but there were hand holds cut out of the box sides. Why are hand holds bad? They aren't, per se, but it all depends on where you put them; one was on the side of the box where the amp is and the other other was by the driver! That means every time someone stuck their fingers in that hole to use the grab handle they stood a good chance poking the driver. Shrewd design Jamo.

Because the sub had such a rough ride I pulled the driver and amp out to see if anything was wrong on the inside. Thankfully there was nothing broken, but something was immediately out of place. There was a sheet of foam damping placed on the left and top panels, but nowhere else. After closer inspection it seems that the right and bottoms panels might have had foam sheets at one point, because the little nails used to secure it were still there, but there was no foam. The shipping box appeared to be factory sealed, so I'm at a total loss as to what happened. Thankfully I had some sheets of acoustic foam left over from a DIY project that were a little denser, but pretty close, to what Jamo used, so I lined the panels using that.

How does it sound you ask? It only has about 2-3 hours on it, so I'm going to withhold judgment for now, but at this point it doesn't impress me with depth or output. The subs gain is a dial on the front panel, and the range goes from 9 o'clock (off) to 3 o'clock (full). Right now it's at 2 o'clock, so darn near cranked. I also had to increase the sub-out on my AVR by +2dB which, when combined with the close to max'ed out gain, finally gives sufficient output. But the extension is just not there right now. I'm used to subs being a bit gutless when new, which is why I let them break in for at least 12-15 hours before doing a review, but the Sub 650 seems a little anemic even considering that. However, at this point I'm not ready to make any pronouncements, but if it doesn't get a lot better I'll probably send it back.

One definitive statement I can make is that the manual sucks. It's in like 90 different languages, but when it comes to how the features, dials and switches work it's only pictographs with various smiley and frowning caricature's. I kid you not -- there are no words -- so trying to figure out how something like the Boundary Gain Compensation feature works is darn near impossible. Right now, twisting the dial doesn't make any audible difference, so when it's broken in I'll have to get out my measurement gear and see if that shows me anything.

The driver only has a stamped steel basket, but it seems pretty stout nonetheless. The sub looks unique too, which is something I prefer over a generic looking black box. Another thing I like is the amp generates virtually no heat whatsoever. After a few hours it's as though the sub isn't even on. The grill is perhaps the flimsiest POS I've ever encountered though; Jamo should have never let this sub out the door with such a rickety grill. The fact that it's difficult to remove means it's probably not long for this world.
post #235 of 2778
haha...

It's funny how much your first imprssion experience echoed my Jamo D7 sub experience.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1321789/anyone-heard-the-jamo-d6-or-d7-sub-thx-ultra-2-specs-how-would-it-compare-to-id/40_20#post_20172328

That manual is a hoot. I remember looking at mine and thinking what the heck is this thing a joke?

That said, While my Jamo's never really excited me terribly for movies, I thought the world of them for music. It'll be interesting to see what you think of the Jamo Sub 650 on some of your favorite music clips. The Jamos I was toying with 1.5 years ago were the flagship Jamo subwoofers, but they actually had a less powerful amp. They were servo controlled drivers with a 400watt amp and were pretty darn flat to 20hz in my room (Which isn't very gracious in doling out room gain). I thought the d7subs were a good value for $500 each, I just had two amp issues in short order and didn't want to play that game since my Infinity HPS-1000's were also encountering failing amps which is why I was trying to purchase new subs!

Some measurements Luke and I took are here. I was still pretty green at that point. I've learned quite a bit over the last year and a half and still have a lot more to learn! You can see the effects of boundary gain setting quite clearly as it related to the Jamo D7subs in the FR measurements.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1321789/anyone-heard-the-jamo-d6-or-d7-sub-thx-ultra-2-specs-how-would-it-compare-to-id/80_20#post_20212041
post #236 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

haha...
It's funny how much your first imprssion experience echoed my Jamo D7 sub experience.

Holy crap, you're not kidding! A lot of our impressions are virtually identical, including thoughts on the cartoonish "manual". We have got to hang out some time and share a cold one... tongue.gif

Did you ever take your D7's apart and see what's inside? When I cracked the Sub 650 open I noticed something about the VC that I've never seen before in any other driver. What's wrong with this picture?



Excuse the terrible image quality - my camera's macro mode isn't worth a d@mn.
post #237 of 2778
yes you can see the voice coil...

I did take drivers on my jamo d7 sub, but I don't recall seeing that and I don't have a picture that would show that unfortunately.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1321789/anyone-heard-the-jamo-d6-or-d7-sub-thx-ultra-2-specs-how-would-it-compare-to-id/120_20#post_20305149
post #238 of 2778
Looks like a detail test for the SUB 650.

hope this guy could warm up after 15-20 hours use.
post #239 of 2778
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTTOG View Post

Looks like a detail test for the SUB 650.
hope this guy could warm up after 15-20 hours use.

Detailed? Nah, for me that's just a pamphlet. I tend to be a bit loquacious, so anything under 10,000 characters is one breath for me... tongue.gif
post #240 of 2778
hehe, great, waiting for your next long breath...................wink.gif
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