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Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 17

post #481 of 1338
12/7/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
And the tests show measurably lower inductance in Teflon coated cables. It's testable for, which means it's not snake oil.
IMO, it's not snake oil if the only thing manufacturers claim is that Teflon lowers induction. When they start talking about how Teflon improves the silkiness of the audio and dramatically improves the soundstage, that's snake oil.

"If you ain't impressed yet, tell me what you wanna hear... " wink.gif
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post #482 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, it's not snake oil if the only thing manufacturers claim is that Teflon lowers induction. When they start talking about how Teflon improves the silkiness of the audio and dramatically improves the soundstage, that's snake oil.
"If you ain't impressed yet, tell me what you wanna hear... " wink.gif

Love your home theater setup. I could almost kill for that.
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post #483 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:01pm
Maybe I could kill for that. Where do you live? biggrin.gif
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post #484 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

Maybe I could kill for that. Where do you live? biggrin.gif
lol That's terrible!
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post #485 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:06pm
Well, he sure split fast. biggrin.gif
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post #486 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

Well, he sure split fast. biggrin.gif
He's gonna miss out on the RW and then be kicking himself.
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post #487 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:37pm
The new improved snake oil includes Teflon such than you can fry sausages and improve the performance of flux capacitors.

So now I am learning about the potential for placing a sub behind a couch. I have a 3 seater Lazy Boy and I think I have enough room.
Besides making more room elsewhere is there a benefit to that?
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post #488 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:42pm
The benefit of "nearfield" placement is that you largely remove the room from the equation. This means that:

(1) you don't have to "pressurize" the entire space, mitigating the negative effect of having a sub that is too small for the room and,
(2) you don't have to worry about the acoustic impacts of the space, like dips and peaks

Now the benefit only extends to the nearfield, so the bass won't be as pronounced in the rest of the room, but if you only have limited seating it allows the sub to punch above its weight for the nearfield listeners.
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post #489 of 1338
12/7/12 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

The new improved snake oil includes Teflon such than you can fry sausages and improve the performance of flux capacitors.
So now I am learning about the potential for placing a sub behind a couch. I have a 3 seater Lazy Boy and I think I have enough room.
Besides making more room elsewhere is there a benefit to that?

It all depends on the room, and your seating position and preferences. In a large open room with the seats sitting in the middle of the room (which is a null) moving the sub closer to the seating position can help.

In a smaller room where the seating position is not in the center of the room, the sub may sound best in the corner.

You have to experiment, and ideally, you should measure. You also may not like having the sub so close to your seating position.
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post #490 of 1338
12/7/12 at 2:08pm
Yes, I am not concerned about other seating, and like I said, my next space might be considerably smaller as well.

I can fit either sub behind the couch. Assuming near placement, would I notice a big difference between the Klipsch and the PA-150? How audible is the difference as far as their tradeoffs above and below 40hz as you mentioned?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I still recommend the 150 but you could get by with the RW if it makes you more comfortable. You would not notice as much of a difference between the 2 with it placed that close. In fact the difference may not even be worth the extra $150.

Actually the difference should only be $50...
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post #491 of 1338
12/7/12 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Yes, I am not concerned about other seating, and like I said, my next space might be considerably smaller as well.
I can fit either sub behind the couch. Assuming near placement, would I notice a big difference between the Klipsch and the PA-150.

Like I said, they have never been measured head-to-head. Ricci has measured the PA-150 so we know what it does and does not do. If you are more comfortable with Newegg, I say go that route. For $300 the Klipsch is a solid deal and you would be hard pressed to find another sub that can do what it can do for that price.
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post #492 of 1338
12/7/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

confused.gif And the tests show measurably lower inductance in Teflon coated cables. It's testable for, which means it's not snake oil.
If you can't hear it, it don't matter. And you can't, no more than you can hear the measurable difference between silver and copper wire, nor skin effect in audio frequencies. The problem with cable schlockmeisters is that their lies are often lies of omission, which makes them harder for the average Joe to see through. And of course, that's the point.
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post #493 of 1338
12/7/12 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Now the benefit only extends to the nearfield, so the bass won't be as pronounced in the rest of the room, but if you only have limited seating it allows the sub to punch above its weight for the nearfield listeners.

Thanks for that. There is only really 2 for the couch so it might work in the nearfield as described. It's worth a try.
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post #494 of 1338
12/7/12 at 3:35pm
One last (hopefully) question, could I expect one of Klipsch or PA-150 to sound better/punchier/more clear at the lower end of volume? I can't always (or often) really crank it up here.
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post #495 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

One last (hopefully) question, could I expect one of Klipsch or PA-150 to sound better/punchier/more clear at the lower end of volume? I can't always (or often) really crank it up here.

There is a night mode on the Klipsch. I haven't tried it since I live alone. If you have to lower the gain you can do it on the digital display instead of having to reach behind the sub. Pretty handy.
If you have a logitech remote you can do it with that. Once you get the remote programmed of course.
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post #496 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

There is a night mode on the Klipsch. I haven't tried it since I live alone. If you have to lower the gain you can do it on the digital display instead of having to reach behind the sub. Pretty handy.
If you have a logitech remote you can do it with that. Once you get the remote programmed of course.
My Logitech works great on the RW.smile.gif
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post #497 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My Logitech works great on the RW.smile.gif

Some of us are just tooooo lazy to walk across the room. biggrin.gif
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post #498 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:26pm
I'm lazy too. Which logitech model do you have?
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post #499 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

One last (hopefully) question, could I expect one of Klipsch or PA-150 to sound better/punchier/more clear at the lower end of volume? I can't always (or often) really crank it up here.
Are you hoping that if you ask that question enough times you will get the answer you want? It has to have been answered for you atleast 3 times.
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post #500 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

I'm lazy too. Which logitech model do you have?
The 650. I sit right next to the sub so I dont even need it for that but had to see how well it worked. With 3 subs it could get confusing. You might have to keep a chart with you.
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post #501 of 1338
12/7/12 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Are you hoping that if you ask that question enough times you will get the answer you want? It has to have been answered for you atleast 3 times.

When did I ask about lower volume? If you mean how no one has compared these particular two subs, I guess I am speaking more generally. The lack of real-world comparisons hasn't kept everyone from being adamant that the PA-150 is the one to go with; could the same characteristics that make it the recommendation for a big room actually be a detriment at quieter volume? Like is a bigger speaker typically less effective when it's not pushing volume, for example?

Out of curiosity, why did you yourself opt for the Klipsch over the PA-150?

Just noticed this:
Quote:
Especially if there is a wall to the right where the stairwell is.

There is; the stairs are walled on each side.
Edited by curttard - 12/7/12 at 5:05pm
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post #502 of 1338
12/7/12 at 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

When did I ask about lower volume? If you mean how no one has compared these particular two subs, I guess I am speaking more generally. The lack of real-world comparisons hasn't kept everyone from being adamant that the PA-150 is the one to go with; could the same characteristics that make it the recommendation for a big room actually be a detriment at quieter volume? Like is a bigger speaker typically less effective when it's not pushing volume, for example?
Out of curiosity, why did you yourself opt for the Klipsch over the PA-150?
Just noticed this:
There is; the stairs are walled on each side.
The wall is good news. That will help keep the sound contained. Both of these will sound fine at low volume. It is never a disadvantage to be more capable. The sub has a volume knob. I got the rw because my mains are klipsch. I like them and the rw is a well known and respected sub in these forums and my room is about half the size of yours.
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post #503 of 1338
12/8/12 at 3:02am
i would say the klipsch has the advantage at lower volume because of its lower extension in the frequency range. at low volumes, the pa doesnt have a lot going for it becuase its advantage is more output above 40hz, which is not relevant at low volume. imo
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post #504 of 1338
12/8/12 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

i would say the klipsch has the advantage at lower volume because of its lower extension in the frequency range. at low volumes, the pa doesnt have a lot going for it becuase its advantage is more output above 40hz, which is not relevant at low volume. imo
???? My guess is that one of these audiophiles will have a field day with that one. But that's what these forums are for. Swapping ideas.
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post #505 of 1338
12/8/12 at 6:46am
If you want more output from the klipsch above 40hz at low volume, simply turn up the gain. There is no magical setting to help lower extension on PA
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post #506 of 1338
12/8/12 at 4:22pm
Here's a more accurate map of the basement:



I think I've decided to go with the Klipsch, will probably order on Monday. I was all set to order the PA-150 but after going through every thread on this forum that mentions either, there are strong opinions from a few in favor of the PA-150 and some strong proponents of the Klipsch (like Achaea). It sounds like the Klipsch is a bit more even and can go lower. The overall output of the PA-150 I don't think will be a big advantage for me because unlike seemingly everyone else on this forum, being audible from "three houses down" is not an option for me wink.gif
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post #507 of 1338
12/8/12 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I think I've decided to go with the Klipsch, will probably order on Monday.

Bad idea; by then they'll probably be gone. At $300 the Klipsch is a steal, so they never last long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

The overall output of the PA-150 I don't think will be a big advantage for me because unlike seemingly everyone else on this forum, being audible from "three houses down" is not an option for me wink.gif

Bad idea #2 (sorry); a single PA-150 will be overwhelmed by your room, not the other way around. You're trying to fill a cavern, and it will take an awful lot to do that. If the Klipsch is close to you, and it's not turned way up, it will probably be passable output wise. The PA-150 would definitely be better in that regard, but won't go as deep.
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post #508 of 1338
12/8/12 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Bad idea; by then they'll probably be gone. At $300 the Klipsch is a steal, so they never last long.
Bad idea #2 (sorry); a single PA-150 will be overwhelmed by your room, not the other way around. You're trying to fill a cavern, and it will take an awful lot to do that. If the Klipsch is close to you, and it's not turned way up, it will probably be passable output wise. The PA-150 would definitely be better in that regard, but won't go as deep.
I suggested that if he put it behind the couch about 3" away with the cone facing the couch. It will not fill the room but may pass at the seating position. There is a wall there at the stairwell to help with containment. Make any sense?
Edited by Bond 007 - 12/8/12 at 6:43pm
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post #509 of 1338
12/8/12 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

The PA-150 would definitely be better in that regard, but won't go as deep.

Yeah; I was afraid, since I will not be using this for music, that that would mean the 150 would be less satisfying than the Klipsch.
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post #510 of 1338
12/8/12 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I suggested that if he put it behind the couch about 3" away with the cone facing the couch. It will not fill the room but may pass at the seating position. There is a wall there at the stairwell to help with containment. Make any sense?

Might not be a bad idea. With the couch almost dead center in the room -- assuming the picture is to scale -- he's probably looking at a null, so moving the sub closer and narrowing the gap could help mitigate the dead spot.
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