Budget subwoofers discussions, opinions and questions thread - Page 3

Originally Posted by spyboy

The gold standard for subwoofers is:

Low, Loud, Flat, Clean

In the Sound&Vision test of the frequency response of the 12 inch Cadence, output at 63Hz is about 22 db higher than output at 20Hz, and still 13db down at 30Hz vs output at 63Hz. That certainly is nowhere near flat. And makes the Cadence more of a midbass module.

As you are aware, SVS subs actually measure quite close to flat as they should.

The Energy S10.3 measured much flatter than the Cadence. So, it is not mostly about the amount of bass available at 20 Hz, but rather bandwith uniformity. That is one reason CEA 2010 places so much empahsis on output from 20-31.5Hz and from 40-63Hz.

Originally Posted by cel4145

Energy S10.3 is $199 at Newegg just for this weekend.

Originally Posted by JimWilson

Subtract the $30 for using promo code EMCYTZT1533 and you get to $199.

Originally Posted by amazonracer

Ok, I am very weary in a good way from researching a "budget" sub. I have a new Sharp 60 inch 3D 835U mounted on the wall. Right below is an entertainment cabinet with a new to me Boston center VR12. Each side are Boston VR965's that I have had for years that I really still enjoy. The towers have powered subs inside but not really that strong for movies. The set up is downstairs in a great room style configuration in the corner of a family room. To the left is an extended area to the rear of this level that leads to the rear yard. Approx. 20 feet to the left of the setup and 3-4 feet on the right to a wall. There is a staircase in the middle of the downstairs, open kitchen and a living and dining room on the opposite end of this level. The total living area downstairs is approx. 1200 sq ft. The ceilings are 10 ft. Yesterday, I hooked my sons old Polk PSW10 in the short corner of the setup. The TV and all speakers are within close proximity to each other. The PSW10 was unimpressive most of the time and really only noticed when a HBO movie turned up loud and I really enjoyed it (1st Xmen movie) Right now, the PSW is a good deal as it is free. But the color of the cabinet is lighter and there is a silver trim which I don't like.

Here's my question:

I have narrowed it down to 4 subs. I know they range as much as $100 but just for argument sake, say all are the same price and given the above but limited information. Tell me what to buy because I can't decide and even harder as I have a subwoofer although not rated very high generally speaking. No offense.

1 Acoustech Plantinum PL-200
2 HSU STF-1
3 Energy S 10.3
4 Premier Acoustics PA-120

Oh, 95% television/movie watching but my real passion is music but generally listen through headphones on my IPhone. I love loud rock, classic rock, etc. etc. Thanks in advance for any opinons.

Originally Posted by JimWilson

+1

Given your situation this is perhaps the best option.

Originally Posted by amazonracer

Thanks everyone. One last question. The Pl200 seems like it has more power than the PA150. What am I looking at? Yes, the PA 150 looks like a monster. Thanks

Originally Posted by cel4145

I think they have the same RMS power. It's the difference between a 15" driver with a larger enclosure versus a 12" in a smaller one. You get more output. Check out the data here in this table and look for the PL-200 and PA-150. You'll see that the PA-150 has more maximum output (measured in decibels) at a variety of frequency ranges. Then this table of short term averages across a frequency range, show the PA-150 with more output again.

Originally Posted by spyboy

Have you considered nearfield placement? That means placing the sub within 4 feet of the listening position. I've experienced the benefits of nearfield placement in a really large room. With nearfield placement you don't need to pressurize the entire space.

Originally Posted by amazonracer

Although the total listening position is only 10 feet away, one small side couch is 3-4 feet away. This setup is really in our face because the room from the main couch to the TV and 2.5 setup is 8-10 feet away total. I see what your saying though. Don't you think just the change from the PSW10 to a PA150 or 120 or even the PL200 would be a huge improvement. BTW, the current setup sounds really good for what it is at this point. I just can't stop my obsession at this point to finish the 2.1 setup. I know they offer "make an offer" for the PA 150 but I don't want to be a low baller as this is not my intent. I was thinking offering $325. I can get the PA 120 for $299 less 15% discount with shipping I think. That to me is still a huge upgrade to the PSW10 as well.

Originally Posted by amazonracer

Although the total listening position is only 10 feet away, one small side couch is 3-4 feet away. This setup is really in our face because the room from the main couch to the TV and 2.5 setup is 8-10 feet away total. I see what your saying though. Don't you think just the change from the PSW10 to a PA150 or 120 or even the PL200 would be a huge improvement. BTW, the current setup sounds really good for what it is at this point. I just can't stop my obsession at this point to finish the 2.1 setup. I know they offer "make an offer" for the PA 150 but I don't want to be a low baller as this is not my intent. I was thinking offering $325. I can get the PA 120 for $299 less 15% discount with shipping I think. That to me is still a huge upgrade to the PSW10 as well.

Originally Posted by spyboy

Going with the PA150 should make a substantial difference. I am saying that you should try nearfield placement both with the PSW10 and anything else you might buy. Again, with nearfield placement you don't need to pressurize the entire space. There is a big difference between having the sub 10 feet away, and having it 2 feet away.

It costs nothing to experiment with nearfield placement. So, it is always a good place to start if it is an option. Of course, some people simply can't deal with having the subwoofer so close to the listening position for a variety of reasons, not the least of which could be spousal acceptance.

Originally Posted by amazonracer

Still leaning toward the PA 150 but the price of the 120 or something comparable is better for the "spousal acceptance" but she trusts me and she has no understanding of this nor wants any. She has been out of town this week and has not seen or heard the PSW10 hooked up so I'm thinking of removing it as she comes home today so my argument for the PA-150 is more compelling. "Honey, we still need a subwoofer" Hehehe.

Originally Posted by JimWilson


3300 cubic feet is a sizable area to fill. To do that effectively would require more subwoofer then $350 can buy, but I can think of a few options close to your price point that might be worth looking into...

Originally Posted by JimWilson

If you spend enough time here you'll find a distinct bias towards certain brands. A lot of the reason is warranted, because some of the companies in question do represent a true value, but often times it misleads people who don't have a depth of experience into thinking those are the only options (especially when they're presented as such). There's also a few with a headstrong opinion regarding what constitutes acceptable; for them it means the ability to rattle fillings from your mouth, and anything less is unacceptable. Deep, rich bass is definitely addictive -- a disease a lot of us suffer from, myself included -- but eating has has a certain significance too. Not everyone's financial situation permits that type of purchase, which is precisely why I started the "budget" series of threads. There are those who simply can't afford something elaborate and all encompassing, and I fully understand that perspective. It was an unfilled need, so I decided to try and rectify that.

Getting back to your specific situation... you have competing circumstances; a room on the larger side, but a budget on the smaller side. That combination will generally result in a purchase that doesn't really provide the output or extension you'll need. A big space requires output (volume), and to properly render all the sound effects you need extension (depth) as well. The bigger the space the more of both you'll need. Buy something too small and the room will overwhelm it, essentially making what you did spend a waste of money.

Brands like Epik, SVS, Hsu, Rythmik, et al have products that not only can play loud, they can play deep. But they don't fit in everyone's budget. Other companies -- like Cadence and Premier Acoustics -- make subwoofers that can play just as loud, or in some cases louder, but they don't go as deep. They also don't cost as much either.

There are options available to fit nearly anyone's situation, but personal expectations have to be managed if the budget is not commensurate with the needs; in essence, something has to given. You do have a few different options to choose from though, so your back is not against the wall. I would only caution you against getting something too small. In that case the probability of being happy with your purchase is very slim.

Originally Posted by spyboy

There is a really old saying:

"You can't have your cake and eat it too." In other words, if you settle for a budget subwoofer, you get to choose your compromise.

Brands like Epik, Outlaw, SVS, HSU cost more for a reason. Even though it is beyond your budget, you might be interested in the following review of the HSU VTF-3MK4. The reviewer was so impressed by the VTF-3MK4, that he made it his reference subwoofer.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/reviews/vtf3mk4WSR.pdf

Dr. Hsu also designs subwoofers for other companies, not the least of which is Outlaw.

People looking for maximum bang for the buck have zeroed in on the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, and the LFM-1EX because they don't suffer from the common problem of behaving like mid-bass modules. Just a week or so ago, the LFM-1 Plus was on sale for $499 delivered. No where near twice the price of the PA-150.

If you haven't registered for the Outlaw Secret Sale, you have about 24 hours:
Register here so you can see what is on sale starting Monday:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/7MayGate....m_medium=email

Scroll down until you see the registration.

If you decide that you simply can't pay more than about $350, the PA-150 has a lot of output in the mid-bass.

Having said that if you read the following summary on the PA-150 you will see the following: "There is a single 4 inch flared vent on the back of the enclosure tuned to about 25Hz which should be low enough for light to medium duty home theater applications."

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=48

The following graph shows the frequncy response of the PA-150. Tons of mid-bass.




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Originally Posted by The Jam

I would say I can go up to at least $300, maybe $500 or more, it depends. I'm going to be listening in a room with about 800 cubic feet, hardwood floors at the top of the house. ... I would say it will be 80% music, 20% HT.