Twilight Time thread - Page 2

Originally Posted by wuther

So four more announced:

Journey to the Center of the Earth
The Big Heat
As Good as It Gets
The Wayward Bus

I really want Journey but will wait to see if it's more like Bigger Then Life or like Demetrius PQ wise.

Originally Posted by Tom Monahan

Demetrius sure doesn't look like it worth the price after seeing bluray.com's pq review. I sure hope Grapes of Wrath looks better than this.

Originally Posted by John Ballentine

Just watched Demetrius. Horrible picture quality. On top of the other problems (as noted in review) ...image appears very "blurry." Huge disappointment. Not much better than my DVD. In fact I should compare them. The DVD may be actually better I was happy w/ the quality of The Egyptian. Hoping Journey looks as good as Mysterious.

Originally Posted by haineshisway

... but Twilight Time must use what they are given, and frankly given what they are reading on these boards, there probably won't be any more transfers like this done - which means a bunch of films are not going to see Blu-ray release now ...

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

And the chickens are coming home to roost.

What we are seeing is the only logical byproduct of this style of extremely limited marketing. Ray Charles could have seen this coming from a thousand miles away.

Twilight Time is only known to a small number of internet film geeks (like me). We are those film geeks who hang around these forums...these very same forums where we learned about Twilight Time...and share opinions on an almost hourly basis. Film geeks are critical. We don't forgive much and we point out things that bug us EVEN if the things that bug us would be thought of as inconsequential by a larger buying public.

Unfortunately, if you are Twilight Time, you don't deal with the larger buying public. You deal with us geeks.

Live by the sword. Die by the sword.

Sell only to film geeks. Suffer the criticism of film geeks.

Twilight Time, Sony and Fox can't have it both ways. You can't sell premium product at premium price to a select few of the internet cognescenti and then expect us to look the other way about picture quality like we just bought a disc from the Walmart bargain bin.

Originally Posted by HDMe2

We were told that these movies are worth $30 because they are good movies, high quality transfers, and limited collectibles... We should be willing to pay what they are worth instead of "expecting" them in the bargain bin... but then a release comes out where it isn't a high quality release, and we are told that we shouldn't expect a high quality release because Twilight Time isn't a big company.

That dog isn't going to hunt. (to use another colloquialism)

Originally Posted by haineshisway

I didn't find it horrible at all. There are many horrible transfers that are truly horrible - this one is not perfect and yes spending hundreds of thousands of dollars could make it look better - parts of the image are indeed "blurry" - most of that are the opticals (and you cannot count the opening of the film, as the entire section of The Robe is a many generations away dupe) - it's a bit too dark, and the color is a bit too brown, but there have been MUCH worse transfers foisted on buyers from any number of companies. This is absolutely better than the DVD and while obviously not up to the standard of The Robe (which had a 1.5 million dollar restoration not paid for by Fox) and The Egyptian (which did not have that kind of restoration and looks better than The Robe, IMO) - but Twilight Time must use what they are given, and frankly given what they are reading on these boards, there probably won't be any more transfers like this done - which means a bunch of films are not going to see Blu-ray release now. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to each individual's tolerance level. The choice here was simple - do they release this or do they not. They chose to because people really seemed to want it. After this reaction, there's no upside for them to take this kind of chance again, even though there are viewers for whom this transfer of Demetrius is perfectly acceptable. Those viewers are the ones who will now lose out.

Originally Posted by HDMe2

This is a really awesome and truthful post. When people criticized for Fright Night selling out, it was somehow the people's fault for not "understanding Twilight Time's business model"... but then if they produce a sub-par release that is critically panned, that somehow too is the customer's fault.

We were told that these movies are worth $30 because they are good movies, high quality transfers, and limited collectibles... We should be willing to pay what they are worth instead of "expecting" them in the bargain bin... but then a release comes out where it isn't a high quality release, and we are told that we shouldn't expect a high quality release because Twilight Time isn't a big company.

That dog isn't going to hunt. (to use another colloquialism)

Originally Posted by Josh Z

The reality of the situation is that you can either have the movie or not have the movie. Fox doesn't want to release the movie themselves at all, because they don't feel there's any money in it. They're certainly not going to shell out for an expensive restoration, only to sell a couple thousand copies (if they're lucky). Fox would not recoup enough money to make that a worthwhile investment. However, they are willing to foist off the unrestored master they already have in hand to Twilight Time.

You can either take that or leave it. If you're not happy with the situation (and I perfectly understand why you wouldn't be), don't buy the disc. But, at this time, there is essentially zero chance of a full and proper restoration for this title.

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

The problem is, Twilight Time is charging essentially a premium price for the "product" which should lead a customer to believe the product has a certain level of quality. It's very much like the situation Hammer/Studio Canal in the UK are currently facing, where they are putting out Hammer's horror films to basically a small niche market at a fairly high cost but seem genuinely baffled by the criticism they are getting due to the abysmal quality of one of their first releases (Dracula Prince Of Darkness) that they claim to have done significant work to "restore."

The bottom line is, the more focused on a small niche, discerning customer base these relatively small outfits try to target for their releases, the more likely they'll get harsh, direct criticism and loss of sales and eventual failure of their business model when they fail to meet customer expectations, right or wrong, especially when they're charging premium prices for their releases. In a nutshell, Twilight Time needs to build and protect their reputation not just by releasing titles that have some sort of legitimate appeal but more importantly to have the foresight and guts to pass on licensed titles from other studios that are sub-par quality that they can't invest the cost to improve.

It's why a company like Criterion still thrives while many others struggle and eventually fall.

Originally Posted by haineshisway

Funny because I have several Criterion Blu-rays that don't please me at all, quality-wise - but they get a pass, always.

Originally Posted by John Ballentine

Which ones?

Originally Posted by wmcclain

The last time I did A/B testing with a DVD was of the Criterion Stagecoach BR with the Warner DVD. I got a lot of grief in the Criterion thread for saying the improvement was "modest" (by which I meant negligible). But no one else had done the comparison. I think it's true some people don't like to see Criterion criticized, especially with comparisons to existing DVDs.

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Bill, you were criticized about Stagecoach because you made those comments while also admitting that you were watching (at the time) on a small screen. You'd also made similar comments about other discs that demonstrated a clear improvement over DVD.

I'm not trying to call you out or anything here. I'm just trying to put that debate into perspective.

Originally Posted by haineshisway

Funny because I have several Criterion Blu-rays that don't please me at all, quality-wise - but they get a pass, always.

Originally Posted by wmcclain

You remember it better than I do!

I shouldn't make image quality statements.

-Bill

Originally Posted by JazzGuyy

The problem with both Stagecoach and Island of Lost Souls is that the original film elements don't exist and haven't for many years. What does exist for both movies is not that great. The Criterions, while no great shakes, are about as good as these movies will get unless someone is willing to pour huge amounts of money into them (and even then any improvements might be hard to achieve). Sometimes you have to face the fact that some great movies will never look great in any medium.

Originally Posted by stumlad

I don't think Twilight Time is portraying themselves as a "quality release/restoration" seller. They are essentially selling bargain-bin titles, but trying to ensure it doesn't end up in the $5 wal-mart bin.

Originally Posted by NetworkTV

In a way, you're right...

Twilight Time is aimed squarely at those who buy a few copies of their limited releases to sell on E-bay (to the many who have no idea who Twilight Time is) for $80.

Originally Posted by JoeD

The only title I have seen this with was Fright Night, all other titles have not sold out. If you only buy from BM stores then yes you will miss these titles, but they are on Amazon. It's unfortunate that only people who seek these titles out on the internet will be aware of them.

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

The problem is, Twilight Time is charging essentially a premium price for the "product" which should lead a customer to believe the product has a certain level of quality. It's very much like the situation Hammer/Studio Canal in the UK are currently facing, where they are putting out Hammer's horror films to basically a small niche market at a fairly high cost but seem genuinely baffled by the criticism they are getting due to the abysmal quality of one of their first releases (Dracula Prince Of Darkness) that they claim to have done significant work to "restore."

In a nutshell, Twilight Time needs to build and protect their reputation not just by releasing titles that have some sort of legitimate appeal but more importantly to have the foresight and guts to pass on licensed titles from other studios that are sub-par quality that they can't invest the cost to improve.

Originally Posted by Josh Z

From the consumer perspective, I don't necessarily disagree with you about the price issue. However, Twilight Time's business model is what it is. As stumlad said, there isn't a lot of money to be made here. Twilight Time needs to charge a certain amount in order to recoup their own expenses, and apparently they've decided that $30 is that price. If you don't find enough value in that (and I can understand that feeling), then you shouldn't buy their titles.



This just goes back to my previous point: You can either have the movie or not have the movie. The reality of the situation is that a title like Demetrius and the Gladiators is simply not going to get a full and proper restoration. Either Twilight Time looks at that and decides to pass on it, or they release it as is. In either case, the movie's not getting the restoration you feel it deserves.

It's certainly your prerogative to refuse to buy their disc. However, other fans of the film may be more willing to overlook the transfer's shortcomings so long as it's still an improvement over previous formats, because they'd rather have the movie in a compromised condition than not have it at all. I don't think we should begrudge them that opportunity.

What's really needed here are informed reviews of each title, so that interested buyers can know what they're getting into.

Originally Posted by Josh Z

It's certainly your prerogative to refuse to buy their disc. However, other fans of the film may be more willing to overlook the transfer's shortcomings so long as it's still an improvement over previous formats, because they'd rather have the movie in a compromised condition than not have it at all. I don't think we should begrudge them that opportunity.

What's really needed here are informed reviews of each title, so that interested buyers can know what they're getting into.

Originally Posted by stumlad

I don't think Twilight Time is portraying themselves as a "quality release/restoration" seller. They are essentially selling bargain-bin titles, but trying to ensure it doesn't end up in the $5 wal-mart bin.