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Samsung Colour space help.

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Iv been messing about with the display setting on my Samsung LED tv. I was having problems with dark lookin a blue Colour on gears. Iv found that changing the Colour space from native to auto fixed this. It seemed to only help that an not change the display at all. But what iv noticed tho is that the very deep bright green has sofened and is not as strongly green. What do you have it on. And does anyone know if there is some where i can find a good white balance setup for gaming.
So what is the main problem is that the green needs sorting out,because apart from that its the best. It's just not got that potaint strong bright green that it needs.
post #2 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukstevo View Post

Iv been messing about with the display setting on my Samsung LED tv. I was having problems with dark lookin a blue Colour on gears. Iv found that changing the Colour space from native to auto fixed this. It seemed to only help that an not change the display at all. But what iv noticed tho is that the very deep bright green has sofened and is not as strongly green. What do you have it on. And does anyone know if there is some where i can find a good white balance setup for gaming.
So what is the main problem is that the green needs sorting out,because apart from that its the best. It's just not got that potaint strong bright green that it needs.

If accurate color is your goal, then the 'Auto' color space is generally the preferred choice between 'Auto' and 'Native'. If you have a 600/6000 series model or higher, than 'Custom' lets you dial in the color space much better than just optimizing color/tint. Of course, 'Custom' is a 3D CMS (Samsung has the best CMS for any TV brand I've owned/read about) and with any CMS, a meter and software is required to make any adjustments. If you only have a calibration disc, leave color space on 'Auto'.
post #3 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post


If accurate color is your goal, then the 'Auto' color space is generally the preferred choice between 'Auto' and 'Native'. If you have a 600/6000 series model or higher, than 'Custom' lets you dial in the color space much better than just optimizing color/tint. Of course, 'Custom' is a 3D CMS (Samsung has the best CMS for any TV brand I've owned/read about) and with any CMS, a meter and software is required to make any adjustments. If you only have a calibration disc, leave color space on 'Auto'.
are you absolutely sure? Because that's not what this thread says.
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton View Post

are you absolutely sure? Because that's not what this thread says.

yes, and you really need a meter to see this (why Auto is more accurate than Native... on some sets green is far more accurate in Auto vs. Native... on others there might be other, more subtle differences)
post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

yes, and you really need a meter to see this (why Auto is more accurate than Native... on some sets green is far more accurate in Auto vs. Native... on others there might be other, more subtle differences)

Here's a good example and now I wish I had measured Native to see how it compared to Custom at defaults. I calibrated this Samsung LCD a few months ago. It turned out that the CMS in the Custom mode was broken. The "After" is the Auto mode.

post #6 of 31
on my EH6030, green is the same between Native and Auto but Cyan is much worse with Native vs. Auto
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

yes, and you really need a meter to see this (why Auto is more accurate than Native... on some sets green is far more accurate in Auto vs. Native... on others there might be other, more subtle differences)

can confirm this. measured with CP + i1DisplayPro on ES6710. Auto is better then Native.
post #8 of 31
colors pop out more with native colorspace and flesh control turned up to 5 on Sam e450 plasma.also gamma +2 to brighten the tv.

Im fairly close to 6500K I think.anything to brighten things up and add more color helps on this tv.A bunch of fiddling between (mostly flesh control, color control) and white balance ..
.looks a bit cartoon like with high color saturation in the colors and fleshtones but its good and Colorfull.

.I think this sammy NOW looks a bit like a budget Panasonic plasma I saw ,which I thought had better color when viewed side by side with This tv in store.
Edited by Vic12345 - 2/14/13 at 3:25am
post #9 of 31
native colorspace has undersaturated green (es6710). So dark scenes are bit blacker, thats why you see more pop.
And there is bug on es6710 (probably more models with same firmware.)

put 100% green pattern
switch from custom to auto and back - green is the same,
but switch from custom to native and back to custom, green is undersaturated.

Problem is, during regular viewing, if you switch from film to standard (or in opposite way) you get same wrong green...
post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsut View Post

native colorspace has undersaturated green (es6710). So dark scenes are bit blacker, thats why you see more pop.
And there is bug on es6710 (probably more models with same firmware.)

put 100% green pattern
switch from custom to auto and back - green is the same,
but switch from custom to native and back to custom, green is undersaturated.

Problem is, during regular viewing, if you switch from film to standard (or in opposite way) you get same wrong green...

I noticed the same behavior with the EH5000 and EH6000 regarding the green primary, but on the EH6030 green is spot on in both native and auto color spaces (though cyan is still way off on the EH6030 in native... so auto is still the best mode for that set).

EDIT: the EH6030 is just like the other two when in Movie mode, it's the CAL-NIGHT and CAL-DAY modes that are different in how they measure when in 'native' color space.
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 4/2/13 at 5:12pm
post #11 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsut View Post

native colorspace has undersaturated green (es6710). So dark scenes are bit blacker, thats why you see more pop.
And there is bug on es6710 (probably more models with same firmware.)

put 100% green pattern
switch from custom to auto and back - green is the same,
but switch from custom to native and back to custom, green is undersaturated.

Problem is, during regular viewing, if you switch from film to standard (or in opposite way) you get same wrong green...
I have noticed that my PC Mode, which defaults and locks to the native Color space is a lot darker than let's say game mode.
post #12 of 31
Prsut I thought the patterns were affected differently from regular tv when checking colors. I'm using native with flesh control.The greens have more color and pop and a different green color in native on this tv . Abl affects colors too If the white balance is not calibrated near perfect I believe.Said a many times but every channel/ program is filmed differently in color, gamma etc so there is not just one way to display good colors for different shows.
Edited by Vic12345 - 2/15/13 at 3:39am
post #13 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

colors pop out more with native colorspace and flesh control turned up to 5 on Sam e450 plasma.also gamma +2 to brighten the tv.

Im fairly close to 6500K I think.anything to brighten things up and add more color helps on this tv.A bunch of fiddling between (mostly flesh control, color control) and white balance ..
.looks a bit cartoon like with high color saturation in the colors and fleshtones but its good and Colorfull.

.I think this sammy NOW looks a bit like a budget Panasonic plasma I saw ,which I thought had better color when viewed side by side with This tv in store.

So you used (your memory of) an uncalibrated, highly inaccurate TV as your "reference" and tried to make your TV look like that inaccurate reference, rather than trying to determine the settings that make your TV as accurate as possible.

Hmmmm... and you posted that in a Display Calibration thread?

Do you realize that the entire purpose of Display Calibration is to make the TV as accurate as possible, not to make it look like uncalibrated TVs in a video wall under fluorescent lighting (which changes the appearance of the TVs all by itself)? I guess I don't understand how the post is related to Display Calibration.

"Pop out" has nothing to do with Display Calibration... seriously. It takes someone with a meter and calibration software to determine if the video display is accurate or not. And 6500K is a poor determiner of display accuracy since you can add or subtract large amounts of green and the color temperature will not change very much. There is likely a thread on AVS for owners of the TV series you own and often 1 or more people in the owner's thread will have a meter and software and will post settings for those models that produce relatively accurate images (not calibrated, because each TV has to be calibrated individually). Any guess-work you do "by eye" is likely to be highly flawed because the human vision system is VERY easy to fool and what you think you are seeing can be very different from what you actually see... just look for optical illusions online. Many of them involve color.
post #14 of 31
Ukstevo i think you have the same problem as i. I also noticed that the green tint disappear, when you set the colorspace to native. But the real problen is that the green level is to high at 5 % gray but normal at 10 % gray. So you don't measure it in a normal 10 step grayscale calibration.
post #15 of 31
Doug I'm just trying everything I can to brighten the tv up.The various ways I have tried calibrating it ends up everything is too dark.I have used members comments and my own fiddling experience Too try and make this tv look better.Any feedback that helps is appreciated.

Remember I'm a fiddler not a calibrator.Just because a person has a meter does not nessecarily mean a good calibrator.A persons eyes have some piece to the puzzle too I believe.In my opinion the worst alternative ( for this tv )is a dull dim colorless tv.Sam e450 plasma.

Ps a lot of my tv watching is hockey.
Edited by Vic12345 - 2/15/13 at 6:17pm
post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Doug I'm just trying everything I can to brighten the tv up.The various ways I have tried calibrating it ends up everything is too dark.I have used members comments and my own fiddling experience Too try and make this tv look better. Any feedback that helps is appreciated.

Remember I'm a fiddler not a calibrator.Just because a person has a meter does not nessecarily mean a good calibrator.A persons eyes have some piece to the puzzle too I believe.In my opinion the worst alternative ( for this tv )is a dull dim colorless tv.Sam e450 plasma.
I think there are two types of people. The people who prefer to have their image all poppy and fake.....or the people who want to see what there supposed to see.
I definitely prefer what the director intended, by a mile.
post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Just because a person has a meter does not nessecarily mean a good calibrator
But you are in the calibration forum, where discussion revolves around actual calibration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Ps a lot of my tv watching is hockey.
Plasmas are a really poor choice for Hockey, if that' what you want to look best, you'll need to swap out for an LCD.

The more white on the screen with a plasma, the dimmer the image gets.
post #18 of 31
I've honestly never had any issues with hockey on my PDP, it's always been pretty rock solid.
post #19 of 31
I have a plasma, and honestly I get so used to ABL, my mind try's not to think it a problem. Even if the whites are quite dim. I tested with a pure White image.
post #20 of 31
Calibrating for hockey is just a bit different from regular tv.reduce red gain a few numbers too get rid of any pink haze,then Raise blue gain high enough so it's not urine yellow on a full white screen or hockey game. Its just a few numbers adjustment Too gains from normal calibration. find a happy medium.
Edited by Vic12345 - 2/15/13 at 10:56pm
post #21 of 31
Perhaps I worded that a little strongly, it's not tear it off the wall bad, but if you want the screen to really pop with bright whites, a Plasma with maybe 120-150cd/m on a small window will never compare to an LCD pumping out 350+ cd/m^2 on full fields.
post #22 of 31
Why is native Color space so inaccurate? Mine ,The green is way more visible than any other color.you can't calibrate it accurately when one color is so much more dominant...I know some native settings the green is under colored... It would be more useful if they cranked up all the colors on that setting in my opinion..They do so many things so well on these tvs but some things don't make sense.
post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Why is native Color space so inaccurate? Mine ,The green is way more visible than any other color.you can't calibrate it accurately when one color is so much more dominant...I know some native settings the green is under colored... It would be more useful if they cranked up all the colors on that setting in my opinion..They do so many things so well on these tvs but some things don't make sense.

post #24 of 31
At least european model es6710 has CMS bug. I have full refund from Samsung based on my calibration report

03Marec2013.pdf 1036k .pdf file

See page 2. BEFORE is calibrated custom colour space (not precise, it does not matter). Now switch from Fil mode to any other and switch back to Film. Now you have gamut like in AFTER - see delta E on green and cyan. Green is totally off. This is caused by switching picture mode. Bug is, you got native colour space instead of custom. Also see my post nr. 10.
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsut View Post

At least european model es6710 has CMS bug. I have full refund from Samsung based on my calibration report

03Marec2013.pdf 1036k .pdf file

See page 2. BEFORE is calibrated custom colour space (not precise, it does not matter). Now switch from Fil mode to any other and switch back to Film. Now you have gamut like in AFTER - see delta E on green and cyan. Green is totally off. This is caused by switching picture mode. Bug is, you got native colour space instead of custom. Also see my post nr. 10.

and it looks like you also measured the green and cyan colors to be quite less accurate in 'native'
post #26 of 31
Plasma:
Before & After both are measured in custom colour space in one session. Calibrate custom colour space, switch film mode from film to standard, switch back to film. Colour space is still custom. Measure. It is visible without meter too.I have friend in Samsung's service, using Klein meter they confirmed bug. I have i1 pro.
post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Why is native Color space so inaccurate? Mine ,The green is way more visible than any other color.you can't calibrate it accurately when one color is so much more dominant...I know some native settings the green is under colored... It would be more useful if they cranked up all the colors on that setting in my opinion..They do so many things so well on these tvs but some things don't make sense.

Native shuts down processing. It's the only Samsung mode suitable for 3D LUTs.
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsut View Post

Plasma:
Before & After both are measured in custom colour space in one session. Calibrate custom colour space, switch film mode from film to standard, switch back to film. Colour space is still custom. Measure. It is visible without meter too.I have friend in Samsung's service, using Klein meter they confirmed bug. I have i1 pro.

yes, I know... I was just saying even though it's still in custom it's behaving like it's in native (or custom at defaults for that matter, which is the same as native)
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Native shuts down processing. It's the only Samsung mode suitable for 3D LUTs.

what would happen if you tried using a 3D LUT with Auto or Custom (calibrated, not default)? artifacts of some kind? banding?
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

what would happen if you tried using a 3D LUT with Auto or Custom (calibrated, not default)? artifacts of some kind? banding?

custom works fine on my plasma as long as I don't pull the primaries in too far at any of the luminance levels. According to buzz there are weirdities (new technical term) with his LED.
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