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Ultimate 3D Passive under $3000

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
There is an ultimate 3D thread in the +$3000 forum so I thought I would add one here that details a cheaper setup.

What you will need:
-2 identical projectors with high lumen output (2000+ lumens would be ideal)
-2 3DXL boxes from optoma or a computer graphics card and software
-Omega 3D filters (look on ebay for the complete beta kit)

My recommendation
-2 Acer H7531D $850 each (rated at 2000 lumens)
-2 3DXL boxes $250 each (after selling included glasses)
-Omega 3d kit $350 (includes filters, 5 glasses, and 3D computer software)

Total Cost: $2,550

*This is a passive 3D system based on separating the color spectrum each eye sees and thus doesn't require a special silver screen.
post #2 of 54
I'm sort of in the same boat. I bought the filter kit, and will prob. just go with side by side rips of my bluerays to avoid the 3dxl cost, but I'm trying to find two projetors within a price of $2500 total to make this work with. Obv lens shift would be preferable but in this price range its pretty tough. Here is some of what I am considering.

2 x Refurbished Viewsonic Pro 8100 - $1800 total
Has motorized lens shift, 1000-1400 max lumens depending on throw.

2 x Refurbished or New Benq W6000 ($2500 refurb or $3000 new)
Has lens shift, 2000+ max lumens.

2 x Refurbished Epson 8100 - $1500 total
Has Lens Shift 1800 max lumens

2 x Panasonic PT-AR100U - $2400 Total
Lens Shift, 2500 max lumens.

Anyone else have any thoughts or ideas?
post #3 of 54
Thread Starter 
I'm thinking of going the AR100u route, but LED/Laser is what is holding me up, I know its still a little ways off but even this BenQ looks promising and shows that within a year we may have a good HT Laser projector http://www.benq.com/product/projecto...specifications
post #4 of 54
Great thread! I would like to do this too! I would like a silver screen though so I can use the RealD glasses. Basically need two affordable projectors and two optoma xl3d boxes. Just need to find those two affordable projectors.
post #5 of 54
Were is a good place to buy cheap but nice circular lenses/filters?
Also, do the projectors need to be 3D ready or not?
post #6 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Were is a good place to buy cheap but nice circular lenses/filters?
Also, do the projectors need to be 3D ready or not?

http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm

Haven't tested these but they seem to be the middle ground between the film polarizers and the expensive silverfabric ones, Tru3d.com also offers some.

The projectors don't need to be 3D ready but a 120hz projector with FI may give you a better viewing experience
post #7 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm

Haven't tested these but they seem to be the middle ground between the film polarizers and the expensive silverfabric ones, Tru3d.com also offers some.

The projectors don't need to be 3D ready but a 120hz projector with FI may give you a better viewing experience

Any suggestions on specific projectors (obviously the more affordable the better)?
post #8 of 54
Thread Starter 
the acer I posted in the first post sounds good to me, but lacks image shifting you would have to have a little keystone on one projector. Honestly I would stay away from polarization unless you plan to get JVC projectors and retain 80% light output, otherwise you are still losing at least 50% light with Omega or polarization and you will have more ghosting with a polarization and need a sliver screen that will have noticeable grain.
post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

the acer I posted in the first post sounds good to me, but lacks image shifting you would have to have a little keystone on one projector. Honestly I would stay away from polarization unless you plan to get JVC projectors and retain 80% light output, otherwise you are still losing at least 50% light with Omega or polarization and you will have more ghosting with a polarization and need a sliver screen that will have noticeable grain.

Passive on a white screen is the best. But what is the min native resolution you would feel is ok for the price ? The lowest 1080p native I can find is 900 or so.
post #10 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

Passive on a white screen is the best. But what is the min native resolution you would feel is ok for the price ? The lowest 1080p native I can find is 900 or so.

There are a few 1080p around the $850 mark, The AR100U has been cut to $1000 and B&H still has the rebate listed that cuts it to $700 but this seems to be a mistake and I have been told with the price cut the rebate is now void
post #11 of 54
Omega 3d kit...is this 3D basically the same as Dolbly 3D? And are these filters durable..are they made of glass..plastic? Not needing a silver screen is a big plus...
post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

Omega 3d kit...is this 3D basically the same as Dolbly 3D? And are these filters durable..are they made of glass..plastic? Not needing a silver screen is a big plus...

Hi It is not really the same as Dolby 3D, the only thing that is the same is that they are made with optical interference thin film coatings, other than that not the same as all.
the glasses are durable metal oxide thin film coatings on annealed high quality glass, the frames are nylon ( not pretty but were made for mass production cinema use )
one big advantage of the Omega 3d system is that there is no need to color process like Dolby requires. And you dont need a silver screen.

you actually can get it as a kit with the projection filters. im not sure where one would get Dolby projection filters, they are very different from the filters on the glasses. the Dolby cinema systems need to use a special color processor system to work that they lease in addition to the optics.

you know the Dolby is much lower in % efficiency than most others to the point where some instalations in cinemas use a silver screen to help the brightness and you get hot spotting.
post #13 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

There are a few 1080p around the $850 mark, The AR100U has been cut to $1000 and B&H still has the rebate listed that cuts it to $700 but this seems to be a mistake and I have been told with the price cut the rebate is now void

the ar100u looks like a good deal even at $1000. a pair of these, a demux set or high end HTPC and the right optics and room and you have a system as good as the Runco high end home cinema imho.
post #14 of 54
Question; I have had requests for a larger filter in the Omega 3D kit. we were thinking of offering another kit with a 70x45mm filter and 10 pairs of glasses, the kit will cost more...$850 ? still the same high quality white light no silver screen system. i still have yet to design a mount or would the filters alone be ok for most wanting a kit ??? feedback would be great.
post #15 of 54
While two projectors would be cool, it would be a pain to keep them both calibrated. For "pure 3D", they both need to be setup the exactly the same (white point, brightness, etc.).

The lamp will dim at different rates between the two. The difference in time of the lamp dimming will also cause an uneven white point change (unless you keep up on making sure they are both 6500k). The iris's may behave slightly differenty, even in the same shots. In the LCDs, one of them might develop a color uniformity issue (very likely if epsons are used...I've had 5 of them). If there is no manual iris, you'll have a tough time getting the brightnesses matching. The key is to keep both EXACTLY the same - not an easy task.

Although, if you had 2 LED projectors, or two laser projectors, consistency should theoretically not be an issue, especially if using a manual iris to match the brightness.

I'm not trying to discourage - I've even thought about it myself. BUT, I then started to think about all the stuff I just mentioned, so I never personally did it.
post #16 of 54
i agree keeping two projectors exactly the same is hard but the single chip DLP's ive been using dont seem to have much issue in the dual stack 3D system.
ive used lots of LED based devices and made optics and filters for all types and i have to say they are no more stable than an LCD imaging system. in fact LED'd drift with age, lasers are a different story but they have to fix the metameric issues with them. not impossible but I have not seen the solution done well yet.
post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

i agree keeping two projectors exactly the same is hard but the single chip DLP's ive been using dont seem to have much issue in the dual stack 3D system.
ive used lots of LED based devices and made optics and filters for all types and i have to say they are no more stable than an LCD imaging system. in fact LED'd drift with age, lasers are a different story but they have to fix the metameric issues with them. not impossible but I have not seen the solution done well yet.

I agree. DLP would probably have a pretty stable uniformity. All you would need to do is keep the brightness in check.
post #18 of 54
yes the brightness balance would be an issue but with a good test pattern that could be done fairly straight forward. ive made some patters or altered ones ive found to make a good test of this. a gradient scale opposite pattern for each eye that will add together as even grey unless the two projectors are off.
ive noticed that the content you play sometimes is more of a differnace in each eye especially live footage
post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

There are a few 1080p around the $850 mark, The AR100U has been cut to $1000 and B&H still has the rebate listed that cuts it to $700 but this seems to be a mistake and I have been told with the price cut the rebate is now void

i think that deal is for the $300 rebate from Panasonic. If this is correct it's until 03/31/12.
post #20 of 54
Hi all,

Can someone know if projected light in Panasonic PT-AE7000 and Panasonic PT-AR100U is polarized or not?

I am considering using Panasonic PT-AR100U in dual passive 3D projection using SPAR filters and wanna know if SPAR filters can be used or not with AR100U/AE7000.

Thanks,
post #21 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d88-88d View Post

Hi all,

Can someone know if projected light in Panasonic PT-AE7000 and Panasonic PT-AR100U is polarized or not?

I am considering using Panasonic PT-AR100U in dual passive 3D projection using SPAR filters and wanna know if SPAR filters can be used or not with AR100U/AE7000.

Thanks,

I'll try to find an answer for you on that, but most panasonic projectors are not polarized even though they are LCD. With the brightness of the AR100U why would you not use the Omega kit instead and eliminate the need for silver screen and expensive filters?
post #22 of 54
Thank you very much jmcguire525.

Omega kit would be my first choice, but as far as I know using Omega kit u have to use only PC as a source. That's a reason why I wanna use also SPAR filters in order to be able to use Bluray player and satellite receiver.

Thanks,
post #23 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d88-88d View Post

Thank you very much jmcguire525.

Omega kit would be my first choice, but as far as I know using Omega kit u have to use only PC as a source. That's a reason why I wanna use also SPAR filters in order to be able to use Bluray player and satellite receiver.

Thanks,

Sorry, you have that completely wrong, the omega kit is just a different kind of filter. The kit offers computer software but the filters will work with any dual stack passive system, the only difference is they cut out light by the color spectrum instead of polarization. I have 2 3DXL's and no computer source and I plan to use the Omega kit, and I also have looked into the SPAR filters made for JVC and may even get them in the future.
post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

Sorry, you have that completely wrong, the omega kit is just a different kind of filter. The kit offers computer software but the filters will work with any dual stack passive system, the only difference is they cut out light by the color spectrum instead of polarization. I have 2 3DXL's and no computer source and I plan to use the Omega kit, and I also have looked into the SPAR filters made for JVC and may even get them in the future.

Thanks a lot man! I understand it now! And do you know the transmission rate of Omega filters?

Thanks,
post #25 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d88-88d View Post

Thanks a lot man! I understand it now! And do you know the transmission rate of Omega filters?

Thanks,

around 35% for a dual stack, I would use the money you save by not buying SPAR filters and a silver screen and spend it on a 2.4 gain HP screen
post #26 of 54
Thread Starter 
FYI I have no affiliation with Omega. I owned a dual stack BenQ W6000 and tried out 3d with a Harkness silverscreen and cheap polarizers from polarization.com. I also tried using dolby lens as filters on a white screen. In my opinion the only reason to use polarization is if you get JVC projectors and filters matched to them and use a really large screen. I also think it is interesting that Runco switched from polarization on their dual stack system over to the Omega filters (Panavision).

Polarization:
-Pros: High trans% using SPAR or JVC POL filters, Wide range of comfortable glasses

-Cons: requires a silver screen, filters diminish after time, there will be ghosting and how much depends on your filters and screen

Omega 3D:
-Pros: No silver screen, minimal ghosting (should be better than any polarized setup but I will let RDJAM test that), Long life of filters, Cheaper than buying the best polarized filters

-Cons: 65% light loss (about the same as polarized unless you buy SPAR filters for 3LCD or JVC), uncomfortable glasses
post #27 of 54
Is there any alternative to having two optoma xl 3D units?
post #28 of 54
Has anyone done intensive comparisons to a single 3D projector like the Epson 5010 vs. these types of setups, I'm sure some did a couple years back, but wonder how it fairs from recent projectors.

I have a JVC RS-45 and a Viewsonic Pro8200, and I could easily do this since the JVC has a manual IRIS and full shift, but I doubt I will bother since the RS-45 already has 3D, and to be honest for me 3D is just not all that. It isn't bad and it can be cool but I only like it for certain things (mainly space shots, outdoor scenery, some animated), rarely do I like 3D on people or closeups or general viewing, it just doesn't add much and it takes away from the movie sometimes.

Also, I'd worry about uneven lamp aging between two projectors, as well as uneven gamma and stuff like that (and maybe even just getting it lined up perfectly could be tough, although that isn't a deal-breaker)...
post #29 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Has anyone done intensive comparisons to a single 3D projector like the Epson 5010 vs. these types of setups, I'm sure some did a couple years back, but wonder how it fairs from recent projectors.

Also, I'd worry about uneven lamp aging between two projectors, as well as uneven gamma and stuff like that (and maybe even just getting it lined up perfectly could be tough, although that isn't a deal-breaker)...

I would love to see the AE7000 beside a dual AR100U setup and compare, I also saw a dual setup on youtube a while back that used software to line up the images automatically and wish that could be applied to any dual stack.
post #30 of 54
Thread Starter 
Can't find the video, it wasn't even being used for 3D from what I remember, they basically took three projectors and got them close to being aligned then used a computer program along with a camera that automatically aligned the projectors, then showed you could do a presentation and walk in font of the projectors without casting a shadow on the screen.
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