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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 77

post #2281 of 9972
not sure. I have verozon fios.
are regular channels SD?

I will sit approximately 7 or 8 feet from my new tv.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

How much SD content do you watch ? Yes artifacts on a 55" might be more noticable especially with SD content. But if you dont watch alot of SD probably not all that important. IMO go with the larger set, also what was his seating distance that is a variable in the equation also.
post #2282 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Walter View Post

They brought it back about an hour ago and now the finger prints are Windexed away (rep said Windex is okay as the surface is glass).

That rep, as usual, is a moron. I can't understand why companies have these idiots answering phones and giving technical advice (it's all companies nowadays).

Windex can definitely damage the delicate coating on the outside of the glass. There was a guy here several months ago that cleaned his Panny with Windex and it literally ate his coating away, destroying the TV. And there have been similar but less severe reports in years past but those guys just had permanent swirls in the glass.

I would do what the manual says and mix one part mild detergent with 100 parts of water (preferably distilled) and clean that Windex residue off your screen before it attacks the coating. I'd actually do it twice. Always clean the screen when the TV is cold - do not do it when the screen is warm or hot. COLD only.
post #2283 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristopher0 View Post

If you're looking at lag I'd be a little hesitant based on my testing.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21947665

Ultimately I couldn't get the lag to come close to 16ms.
Only burnin I saw was after playing the same game for about 2 hours and even then it was very minor and disappeared quickly after. So in terms of that the set was good.

Only thing I can think of is setting the HDMI Content Type = Graphics.
On the UT50, it made all modes, other than cinema, more accurate.

Let us know if it helps.

- Rich
post #2284 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Always start with the least harsh thing and work your way up.
Microfiber
Microfiber with distilled water
Microfiber with distilled water with touch of dish soap
That should take care of 99% of anything that has potential to end up on your screen unless someone decides to take a sharpie to it.

Ditto.

Panasonic manual talks about using a mild dish soap - DILUTED 100:1 with water - for the panel, the bezel, AND the base....

And, as per Bull's prescription, that is only AFTER a Dry or Slightly Damp cloth has failed....


OOPS: Reading in order, and had not seen that Randy had already mentioned this - Apologies!
post #2285 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas51 View Post

not sure. I have verozon fios.
are regular channels SD?

I will sit approximately 7 or 8 feet from my new tv.

Define "Regular Channels."
Not certain about FIOS, but with Uverse MOST channels have both a SD and a HD version - but you do not get the HD version UNLESS you specifically pay a Premium for HD Service....

Also, even the "HD" channels are not all equal - and neither is the "HD" programming they offer.

FWIW, we sit 9ft from a 60" panel (ST50).
Blu-rays and HDDVDs look GREAT at that distance.

SOME "HD TV" programming, and SOME SD DVDs look Pretty Darn Good - but others look Distinctly Better from about 12 feet away (a secondary seating position in our 'home theater' area).

We do NOT watch SD channels on that panel: if something is on a SD-Only channel, we will watch it on our older 50" panel (at about 10 - 12 feet, depending upon chosen seat). In fact, we also watch MANY of the "HD TV" programs that we record (about 6 in an average week...) on the 50" set: it does a better job of HIDING the source flaws than the 60" panel....


Good luck with your choice!
post #2286 of 9972
I'm pretty sure actual SD material will look pretty yucky on a 55" screen. But keep in mind, if you're playing DVDs they should be upscaled to 1080p anyways with any descent DVD or blu-ray player, or receiver, so you wouldn't be watching DVDs as SD. While not true HD, an upscaled DVD, as long as it has a good bitrate and not too heavily compressed, will look pretty darn good.

Cable/satellite HD channels range from pretty good to pretty bad to awful. Depends on the channel. Some HD channels are more heavily compressed than others, and tend to show heavy compression during bright flashes especially. That's where I really notice how bad a channel looks. An over the air antenna will pull in local HD channels uncompressed if you're in an area that can receive local signals, and it should look better than cable or satellite. Of course for most channels though you're stuck with your cable/satellite company.

Myself, I'm still getting adjusted to going from my 50" D7000 to the 55" ST50. I haven't watched any upscaled DVD yet, so I can't give my opinion yet on how that looks on this set. On the D7000 it looked really good.
post #2287 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

... But keep in mind, if you're playing DVDs they should be upscaled to 1080p anyways with any descent DVD or blu-ray player, or receiver, so you wouldn't be watching DVDs as SD.

All flat panel displays must convert any lower resolution to the display's native resolution. If the native resolution of a display is 1080p then everything it displays must be 1080p or the set will have to convert to 1080p before the material reaches the screen for viewing. That does not mean that SD material is converted to HD level of detail. There is no more information in SD material after it's converted to 1080p. The conversion process just estimates what might have been there.

You are right that SD can look reasonably good if the device used to deinterlace and upscale from 480i to 1080p is good. For instance OPPO players do an outstanding job converting from 480i (SD) to 1080p (HD). No name dvd players that sell for $50 probably don't do as well.

SD TV material has less detail than SD DVDs so, as you said, SD TV is not good with big screen HD TV sets.

Quote:


While not true HD, an upscaled DVD, as long as it has a good bitrate and not too heavily compressed, will look pretty darn good.

I agree, but even though it's deinterlaced and upscaled, DVD content is still SD. I'm being picky because it's easy for folks who are new to this brave new TV world to get confused by the vocabulary.

Quote:


Broadcast HD channels range from pretty good to pretty bad to awful. Depends on the channel. Some HD channels are more heavily compressed than others, and tend to show heavy compression during bright flashes especially. That's where I really notice how bad a channel looks. An over the air antenna will pull in local HD channels uncompressed if you're in an area that can receive local signals, and it should look better than cable or satellite. Of course for most channels though you're stuck with your cable/satellite company.

Absolutely.

Quote:


Myself, I'm still getting adjusted to going from my 50" D7000 to the 55" ST50. I haven't watched any upscaled DVD yet, so I can't give my opinion yet on how that looks on this set. On the D7000 it looked really good.

Try the Superbit version of "The Fifth Element". It's an outstanding DVD transfer. In fact it's better than the first attempt at a Blu-ray version of the same movie. They got it right the second time around.
post #2288 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

Define "Regular Channels."
Not certain about FIOS, but with Uverse MOST channels have both a SD and a HD version - but you do not get the HD version UNLESS you specifically pay a Premium for HD Service....

Also, even the "HD" channels are not all equal - and neither is the "HD" programming they offer.

FWIW, we sit 9ft from a 60" panel (ST50).
Blu-rays and HDDVDs look GREAT at that distance.

SOME "HD TV" programming, and SOME SD DVDs look Pretty Darn Good - but others look Distinctly Better from about 12 feet away (a secondary seating position in our 'home theater' area).

We do NOT watch SD channels on that panel: if something is on a SD-Only channel, we will watch it on our older 50" panel (at about 10 - 12 feet, depending upon chosen seat). In fact, we also watch MANY of the "HD TV" programs that we record (about 6 in an average week...) on the 50" set: it does a better job of HIDING the source flaws than the 60" panel....


Good luck with your choice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I'm pretty sure actual SD material will look pretty yucky on a 55" screen. But keep in mind, if you're playing DVDs they should be upscaled to 1080p anyways with any descent DVD or blu-ray player, or receiver, so you wouldn't be watching DVDs as SD. While not true HD, an upscaled DVD, as long as it has a good bitrate and not too heavily compressed, will look pretty darn good.

Broadcast HD channels range from pretty good to pretty bad to awful. Depends on the channel. Some HD channels are more heavily compressed than others, and tend to show heavy compression during bright flashes especially. That's where I really notice how bad a channel looks. An over the air antenna will pull in local HD channels uncompressed if you're in an area that can receive local signals, and it should look better than cable or satellite. Of course for most channels though you're stuck with your cable/satellite company.

Myself, I'm still getting adjusted to going from my 50" D7000 to the 55" ST50. I haven't watched any upscaled DVD yet, so I can't give my opinion yet on how that looks on this set. On the D7000 it looked really good.


thanks guys for your excellent informative replies. I just checked what programming I get here. I had no idea that there is this much HD stuff. many channels have it. many movies have it. many do not. but a ton of them do.
also now getting a strong vibe that 50" is gonna be plenty big enough for my room.
thanks again. your replies have helped me a great deal.
post #2289 of 9972
Glad to hear, chas51.

Htwaits, you're completely correct about everything you said, and thanks for correcting me on terminology. Those superbit DVDs were great, I agree. Very high bitrate for DVD and they hold up very nicely. I remember the superbit version of Hollow Man looked amazing when I saw it years ago on my CRT.
post #2290 of 9972
More on the hockey "flicker". With two games on tonight, I have flipped between both. I have no "flicker" whatsoever while watching the Caps game. I noticed a little "flicker" here and there while watching the Nashville game, but not as bad as what i saw during the Flyers game last night. I would note that I am watching on custom mode using cnet's settings other than color warmth. I would also note that there is no fluctuating brightness whatsoever, just the "flicker".

I have been following this thread for about two months, so none of this is extremely new to anyone. But for those of us who love hockey, this issue is of some concern. The flicker is a little disappointing, but i can certainly live with it. However, whether someone else can will purely be a matter of preference. The rest of the positives with this awesome tv certainly outweigh this negative for me.

Another word on buzzing, I'm watching the Caps game right now, volume off and do not notice any buzzing whatsoever. However, the TV is rather warm. Nothing crazy, but noticeably warmer than my 46 inch sharp in suntan mode.
post #2291 of 9972
how is your tv's for being resistant to image retention? anyone had any issues with static logo's or letterbox bars?
post #2292 of 9972
"Another word on buzzing, I'm watching the Caps game right now, volume off and do not notice any buzzing whatsoever. However, the TV is rather warm. Nothing crazy, but noticeably warmer than my 46 inch sharp in suntan mode."


was at BB yesterday. strained to listen for buzz on 55" they have on display. it was completetely silent. it was warm. but not a deal breaker.

now that I've read people posting about gray white, I was looking for it and I certainly noticed it.
the 55ST50 at BB is right next to an LED that is brighter and whiter.
that bothers me not in the slightest after having read through most of the posts on this thread and at HDJ.
still just waiting on a sale. but now I know that I'm getting a 50".
looking forward to it. I know I'm gonna dig it.
post #2293 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

....and clean that Windex residue off your screen before it attacks the coating. I'd actually do it twice. Always clean the screen when the TV is cold - do not do it when the screen is warm or hot. COLD only.

Thanks... I'm headed down stairs as soon as I sign off to purify that screen of any residue.
post #2294 of 9972
so for 10-12 feet distance and watching streaming hulu / netflix via xbox (i am not sure if they are all hd or sd) would a 55" or 60" work better? i would hate to get a bigger TV and then complain that picture looks grainy and so on.

i also play xbox 360 driving games but sit closer probably around 8 feet due to Fanatec steering wheel. i need the right size for that as well.

my dvd player is oppo hd 981.

thanks again. i just have hard time deciding between ST50 60" or GT50 55"
post #2295 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by rejus View Post

so for 10-12 feet distance and watching streaming hulu / netflix via xbox (i am not sure if they are all hd or sd) would a 55" or 60" work better? i would hate to get a bigger TV and then complain that picture looks grainy and so on.

i also play xbox 360 driving games but sit closer probably around 8 feet due to Fanatec steering wheel. i need the right size for that as well.

my dvd player is oppo hd 981.

thanks again. i just have hard time deciding between ST50 60" or GT50 55"

I would go with the 60inch for that viewing distance!
post #2296 of 9972
But again 60" at only 8" is rather close I would think. It depends if he's also planning on lots of DVD/SD viewing or strictly blu-ray.

Also, streaming video is not ideal, even HD streaming. The bitrate is much lower than blu-ray or even broadcast bitrate. Streaming video would certainly look better on the smaller set, or worse on larger, however you want to look at it.
post #2297 of 9972
Going through D-Nice's panel prep, over 50 hours in and I just realized I had my picture mode at "Standard" instead of "Custom" as per D-Nice's post.

Should I just leave it in "Standard" for consistency or switch to Custom?
post #2298 of 9972
I have had my 55ST50 for almost a full week now and thought I would post some thoughts on the set compared to the LG 55LW5600 LED I returned.

The LG had a very good detailed picture but the clouding, bleeding and flash lighting was driving me crazy. Letterbox movies being the worst. The final straw was when I was watching Don't Be Afraid Of The Dark and the dark scenes(which is half the movie) glowed around the edges like a frosted window which ruined the movie. I also noticed that movies like Rambo First Blood which I know are very grainy, the LG would smooth out all of the grain even in THX mode with all the enhancements off.
I set the Panasonic using Dnice's out of the box settings and have watched full screen video or run slides all week long. Tonight I finally popped in some bluray's and was blown away. Started with First Blood and it looked great, 35mm film grain and all. The cave scenes with the rats looked better than I have ever seen it, nice and dark with inky blacks. The letterbox bars seem to just disappear in to the bezel. The LG had ruined this scene with the flash lighting and fluctuating black bars. The next Bluray I popped in was Blade Runner the Final Cut and right from the opening scene I was blown away. Deep blacks and popping colors. This is my third Plasma and I never really noticed how red Sean Young's lipstick is before!

Next I tried a few 3D movies, first was Tangled and it looked good but the cross-talk was definatly there. The LG passive wins on this movie. Second was Tron Legacy and I think this looked better on the Panasonic. I could see no crosstalk and the extra resolution of active 3D showed itself here. It just looked more detailed and the LG had pretty bad flash lighting on this movie. I will need to rent Tin-Tin 3D again and compare it because it looked really good on the LG a few weeks ago. I am not sure yet on the 3d, I think I preferred the LG for 3d but the Panasonic's 3d is growing on me. It just seems that it takes longer in to a movie for my eyes to adjust to the 3d with the Panasonic where as the LG it felt comfortable right of the bat. That being said I probably will only watch 3D maybe 5 percent of the time and the Panasonic is so much better with 2D that I can live with it's 3D performance.

I watched some hockey during the week and did notice some weird flickering during some of the games. The weird thing is I only seen the flickering on the NBC sports networks games. When I watched the Blues game on Fox Sports Midwest I did not see any of the flickering. Maybe something different in the cameras or broadcast used by NBC? Either way it is not a deal breaker for me, I have not seen it in anything else including some scenes from a DVR recording I had of White Out with full white snow scenes.

I compared the build quality between the sets and I would have to give the upper hand to the Panasonic. The LG seemed cheap and flimsy when setting on the mount where as the Panasonic seemed solid and rigid. This is probably due more to the difference between Plasma screens and LCD but I thought it is worth mentioning. The build quality just seems better. The built in speakers on the LG were worse than my 5 year old work laptop where as the Panasonic speakers are actually not half bad. They are pretty good for watching the nightly network shows.

The smart TV features are pretty much a wash between the two sets. I like them both for different reasons but they are more alike than different here.
The one thing I wish the Panasonic had is the ability to turn off the screen when using an app such as Pandora. I really like Panasonic's interface on Pandora but I am not going to leave the still image on my screen while listening to it. The LG had an option to turn off the screen but leave everything else running. Not a huge deal since I have 5 other devices that can run Pandora but maybe something for them to think about.

Excellent set so far, the pluses far outway the minuses. Now to make time to re-watch my Bluray and HD-DVD collection!
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #2299 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas51 View Post

"Another word on buzzing, I'm watching the Caps game right now, volume off and do not notice any buzzing whatsoever. However, the TV is rather warm. Nothing crazy, but noticeably warmer than my 46 inch sharp in suntan mode."

was at BB yesterday. strained to listen for buzz on 55" they have on display. it was completetely silent. it was warm. but not a deal breaker.

now that I've read people posting about gray white, I was looking for it and I certainly noticed it.
the 55ST50 at BB is right next to an LED that is brighter and whiter.
that bothers me not in the slightest after having read through most of the posts on this thread and at HDJ.
still just waiting on a sale. but now I know that I'm getting a 50".
looking forward to it. I know I'm gonna dig it.

Too Blue white balance/color temp will make whites appear "brighter/whiter" even though it's an optical illusion. This is why most toothpaste and laundry detergent is blue.
post #2300 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Those superbit DVDs were great, I agree. Very high bitrate for DVD and they hold up very nicely. I remember the superbit version of Hollow Man looked amazing when I saw it years ago on my CRT.

I used "The Fifth Element" for a year when I was shopping for our first DLP HDTV. I know parts of it by heart. There are scenes with amazing skin texture.
post #2301 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

Too Blue white balance/color temp will make whites appear "brighter/whiter" even though it's an optical illusion. This is why most toothpaste and laundry detergent is blue.

thanks alot WiFi-Spy.

I'm a dyed in the wool fanboy at this point. I've read a ton about this series of tv's.
I'm happy that I finally know what size I want for sure.

so many helpful people on this forum thread.
post #2302 of 9972
Could someone tell me if the pixel orbiter default settings are automatic or on because i don't know it and resetting setting doesn't seems to work.
post #2303 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

But again 60" at only 8" is rather close I would think. It depends if he's also planning on lots of DVD/SD viewing or strictly blu-ray.

Also, streaming video is not ideal, even HD streaming. The bitrate is much lower than blu-ray or even broadcast bitrate. Streaming video would certainly look better on the smaller set, or worse on larger, however you want to look at it.

Those official numbers for size of display and seating distance are a bit silly IMO. Use them as a guideline maybe but don't treat them as religion. Most people can't rebuild their rooms or rearrange furniture just to accommodate a chart.

You have apparently not experienced streaming video in 1080p. It's not quite BD quality but it's far better than you describe.
post #2304 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post


Broadcast HD channels range from pretty good to pretty bad to awful. Depends on the channel. Some HD channels are more heavily compressed than others, and tend to show heavy compression during bright flashes especially.

Where do you get your information?

Broadcast HD is the best HD there is. Cable and satellite HD is compressed and can look pretty bad, but it doesn't get any better than OTA PQ.
post #2305 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Where do you get your information?

Broadcast HD is the best HD there is. Cable and satellite HD is compressed and can look pretty bad, but it doesn't get any better than OTA PQ.

That is not true. Many television stations compress their signal. That compression can greatly affect picture quality.
post #2306 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoggSquad View Post

Going through D-Nice's panel prep, over 50 hours in and I just realized I had my picture mode at "Standard" instead of "Custom" as per D-Nice's post. Should I just leave it in "Standard" for consistency or switch to Custom?

Well at this point you've already deviated from his specific panel aging procedure quite a bit so you won't get the desired results, so you may as well just abort the slideshow and watch the TV normally for say 50-100 hours, then apply his non-panel prep reference settings.
post #2307 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmback View Post


That is not true. Many television stations compress their signal. That compression can greatly affect picture quality.

Compression or not, broadcast HD is the best there is.
post #2308 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Compression or not, broadcast HD is the best there is.

Or at least the best available. The problem is most channels never took advantage of HD to benefit the customer, most used the compression to actually lower resolution to fit more channels in the same bandwidth. Some actually broadcast as little as 320i and upconvert, so the signal says 1080i but it looks like garbage. Even if it originates in HD The cable companies do a horrible job of converting and by the time it passes through their network boxes, your home box, and your TV it's usually worse than true SD. There are literally HD stations on Dish Network that look worse than the same channel on SD. Honestly a standard 480p DVD or even VHS looks worlds better than most so-called HD stations which are just upconverted SD which may have not even started out at 480p. My guests allways thought my 480p movies were in HD when I showed them on my 120" screen. I doubt anyone without an eagle eye can tell the difference from 480p to 1080p on a 60" at 10 feet, I barely can.
post #2309 of 9972
What's is the lifespan on an St50? When I do purchase the 55 st50 want to make sure it lasts a while, at least 5 years. Will this Tv be a good value for the long run? Thanks
post #2310 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Compression or not, broadcast HD is the best there is.

I thought Blu Ray was the best HD there is?

Here in the Los Angeles area, the quality of the OTA HD signal varies greatly from channel to channel. CBS is the best of the bunch and local news looks pristine, with KTLA and NBC being almost as good. ABC overly compresses their signal and it looks soft and dull compared to the former, and FOX is blurry and grainy and literally looks like upconverted SD and is the worst one of all.

But even on the good channels, some of their primetime shows are not the best HD quality, and the big three's national feed isn't as crisp as their local broadcasts.

But very often when i do an install for someone, i use a pair of 30-year-old Rabbit Ears to demonstrate how much better CBS etc looks over the air compared to their cable or satellite provider's signal.
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