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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 82

post #2431 of 9972
What is the purpose of connecting the optical out to an avr if using hdmi 2 arc?
post #2432 of 9972
Because HDMI Arc will not help me in this case.

The purpose is that the tv should be passing through the DD 5.1 audio from Fios over the optical which I can then set my receiver to receive, without needing to take up an HDMI input on the receiver.

If I have my Fios going into HDMI 1 or 3, and my other HDMI from my receiver out to HDMI 2, how will ARC help me? It won't. Because I can watch Fios on HDMI 1 or 3, but it still won't pass through the 5.1 audio over ARC HDMI 2.

The point being that I do not want to use any of my HDMI inputs on my receiver for the Fios cable. The Fios cable need to be directly plugged into the tv for my purposes because I need all the HDMI receiver inputs for my other devices.

And again, I did exactly this with my D7000 and it worked like a charm. Fios to receiver, receiver to HDMI of the D7000 (No ARC), passthrough of DD 5.1 from Fios over optical to my receiver. I should be able to do the same thing with this tv, but sadly I cannot see any way to do this, which cause a problem for me.

Why on Earth would Panasonic not allow DD 5.1 passthrough over optical from HDMI input when the Samsung D7000 did? Obviously it's not a legal reason because the D7000 did it fine.

This is a major setback for me. I need all my HDMI inputs on my receiver. Now it seems my only choice is to not have DD 5.1 for my Fios. Thanks, Panasonic.
post #2433 of 9972
Does your fios box have an optical out? If it does, just connect the box directly to the receiver's optical in
post #2434 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Because HDMI Arc will not help me in this case.

The purpose is that the tv should be passing through the DD 5.1 audio from Fios over the optical which I can then set my receiver to receive, without needing to take up an HDMI input on the receiver.

If I have my Fios going into HDMI 1 or 3, and my other HDMI from my receiver out to HDMI 2, how will ARC help me? It won't. Because I can watch Fios on HDMI 1 or 3, but it still won't pass through the 5.1 audio over ARC HDMI 2.

The point being that I do not want to use any of my HDMI inputs on my receiver for the Fios cable. The Fios cable need to be directly plugged into the tv for my purposes because I need all the HDMI receiver inputs for my other devices.

And again, I did exactly this with my D7000 and it worked like a charm. Fios to receiver, receiver to HDMI of the D7000 (No ARC), passthrough of DD 5.1 from Fios over optical to my receiver. I should be able to do the same thing with this tv, but sadly I cannot see any way to do this, which cause a problem for me.

Why on Earth would Panasonic not allow DD 5.1 passthrough over optical from HDMI input when the Samsung D7000 did? Obviously it's not a legal reason because the D7000 did it fine.

This is a major setback for me. I need all my HDMI inputs on my receiver. Now it seems my only choice is to not have DD 5.1 for my Fios. Thanks, Panasonic.

You shouldn't be able to do what you're describing with any TV made in the last 10 years--this is something that is supposed to be built into every TV.
post #2435 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Does your fios box have an optical out? If it does, just connect the box directly to the receiver's optical in

That is the way I have done it for years. Why would someone run it through the TV?
post #2436 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Does your fios box have an optical out? If it does, just connect the box directly to the receiver's optical in

This is how the cable guy hooked up my box in the living room when we switched to cable a few weeks ago.
post #2437 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Does your fios box have an optical out? If it does, just connect the box directly to the receiver's optical in

Yes! A thousand thanks for this. What a simple solution, yet that is exactly what I needed. I didn't even realize that my Fios box had an optical out until I just looked. Problem solved. I'm actually embarrassed that it didn't occur to me to check out the available outputs on the Fios box.

I was thinking when I had my D7000 it was passing through DD 5.1/DTS, but I believe that was only when playing media files from it's internal USB media player. I guess it never did pass through Fios DD 5.1 like I thought I remembered it.

Thanks again.
post #2438 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakster View Post

Based on keeping the TV for 4 years, 4 days and 4hrs is 0.3% of the lifetime of your TV. Id say its completely worth doing to 100hrs of slides to get the better picture for the 99.7% of the time i plan to keep it for.

Nothing is wrong with that, to each his own for sure. Not enough testing has ever been done to say 100% for sure that slides have a positive impact when ran for the first 100 hours. A person would have to run 10 units with slides, 10 units without slides. All the same models, all consecutive serial numbers. Then test away and post the results.
post #2439 of 9972
I've now got my 55ST50 set up in my den. I finished the 100 hours pre-calibration slides and used the D-Nice settings. The tv looks great to my eyes. The only issue I've come across is the way the tv handles 24p. I originally had my PS3's 24p output disabled because my previous tv did not support it. I watched about half of the newest Mission Impossible when I realized I needed to enable 24p output in the PS3 settings. I made sure I had the ST50 set to dispay 60Hz.

When I turned the movie back on, I noticed an immediate soap opera effect. I made sure the motion smoothing setting was indeed turned off. Another member here reported this same thing on his ST50. I guess I am pretty sensitive to SOE, so I quickly disabled the 24p output on the PS3 and things looked again as they should.

I'm surprised none of the official reviews by the experts mention this at all. Maybe some people are more sensitive to it than others, but I definitely prefer to disable 24p output from my blu-ray player.
post #2440 of 9972
If anyone wants to see some horrible line bleed on their ST50 check out Fox Business News channel in HD. they have a vertical scrolling ticker on the right side of the screen, on the same horizontal plane as people's faces, you can see black lines moving on people's faces constantly.
post #2441 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhirnigs113 View Post

I've now got my 55ST50 set up in my den. I finished the 100 hours pre-calibration slides and used the D-Nice settings. The tv looks great to my eyes. The only issue I've come across is the way the tv handles 24p. I originally had my PS3's 24p output disabled because my previous tv did not support it. I watched about half of the newest Mission Impossible when I realized I needed to enable 24p output in the PS3 settings. I made sure I had the ST50 set to dispay 60Hz.

When I turned the movie back on, I noticed an immediate soap opera effect. I made sure the motion smoothing setting was indeed turned off. Another member here reported this same thing on his ST50. I guess I am pretty sensitive to SOE, so I quickly disabled the 24p output on the PS3 and things looked again as they should.

I'm surprised none of the official reviews by the experts mention this at all. Maybe some people are more sensitive to it than others, but I definitely prefer to disable 24p output from my blu-ray player.


interesting, i'll give it a try. up till now i've been watching blu rays with the blu ray player set to 24p enable
post #2442 of 9972
So excited, Just finished D-Nices 100 hours of slides and instructions on panel prep last night at 3:00am. I set my alarm woke up and backed out of the slides and turned off the TV. When I get home tonight after work and the gym I will input his settings and let you guys know how it looks!
post #2443 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhirnigs113 View Post

I'm surprised none of the official reviews by the experts mention this at all. Maybe some people are more sensitive to it than others, but I definitely prefer to disable 24p output from my blu-ray player.

I agree that it's disappointing that this was never mentioned in any professional review. Shame on CNET and others for not at least giving us the heads up that this tv forces a mild soap-opera effect in some situations, even when motion smoothing is turned off. Watching anything from its built-in USB media player causes that soap effect, even in 60Hz mode with motion smoothing disabled.
post #2444 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

If anyone wants to see some horrible line bleed on their ST50 check out Fox Business News channel in HD. they have a vertical scrolling ticker on the right side of the screen, on the same horizontal plane as people's faces, you can see black lines moving on people's faces constantly.

In general, Fox seems to have the worst HDPQ available.
post #2445 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

In general, Fox seems to have the worst HDPQ available.

no, its the TV's fault, not fox broadcast quality.
post #2446 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

no, its the TV's fault, not fox broadcast quality.

I have to agree here. I really cant stand Fox News. Because it isnt,-- but on Cox cable it sure does look purty.
post #2447 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

If anyone wants to see some horrible line bleed on their ST50 check out Fox Business News channel in HD. they have a vertical scrolling ticker on the right side of the screen, on the same horizontal plane as people's faces, you can see black lines moving on people's faces constantly.

This is my third Plasma and this set has less line bleed than I have ever seen on a Plasma. My Samsung that it replaces has horrible line bleed. Fox Business is a worse case scenario, in typical movie watching I find this set very impressive when it comes to line bleed, it's there but not near as obstructive as my old sets. I think Fox Business has decent PQ on Dish, it is not a PQ issue the line bleed is there. I compared my old set to the ST50 by using the scene in Terminator 2 when Arnold first comes to the present day. There is a grill on a tractor trailer that he is in front of. On my old set the lines went across the screen in both directions. With the ST50 it looks perfect, I see none of that at all.
post #2448 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I've cleaned my plasma a couple of times (Panasonic G20) with a bottle of Rocketfish cleaner and the provided cloth a few times, but to avoid potential smearing and splotches I'm just careful not the touch the screen now, and if it needs cleaning I try to use the microfiber cloth by itself. When I did use it, I noticed no problems.

The Monster cleaner varies from set to set I guess, I used some on my LCD and it was smudged all over. The Rocketfish cleaner remedied it.

Another trick for stubborn smudges that resist the microfiber cloth is to use the moisture in your breath with the cloth...works very well for me.
post #2449 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

This is my third Plasma and this set has less line bleed than I have ever seen on a Plasma. My Samsung that it replaces has horrible line bleed. Fox Business is a worse case scenario, in typical movie watching I find this set very impressive when it comes to line bleed, it's there but not near as obstructive as my old sets. I think Fox Business has decent PQ on Dish, it is not a PQ issue the line bleed is there. I compared my old set to the ST50 by using the scene in Terminator 2 when Arnold first comes to the present day. There is a grill on a tractor trailer that he is in front of. On my old set the lines went across the screen in both directions. With the ST50 it looks perfect, I see none of that at all.

I agree, fox business channel in HD is a worst case scenario for line bleed, because of the ticker on the right side. In normal movie or tv watching , line bleed is very seldom noticeable.
post #2450 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

no, its the TV's fault, not fox broadcast quality.

You seem to be unanimous in your judgment.
post #2451 of 9972
What I'd like to know is if the 65" loses the punch of the 55"? By comparison in previous models like VT25 and ST30 I noticed that the 60+ sizes are not only slightly dimmer but just don't have the same punch to the picture as the smaller sizes, ie not as brilliant. Does the 65ST50 holds up well in this regard? I'm sure it's phenomenal in either case but I'm still curious side by side with a 55ST50 if the picture seems any 'weaker'?
post #2452 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I agree that it's disappointing that this was never mentioned in any professional review. Shame on CNET and others for not at least giving us the heads up that this tv forces a mild soap-opera effect in some situations, even when motion smoothing is turned off. Watching anything from its built-in USB media player causes that soap effect, even in 60Hz mode with motion smoothing disabled.

Wait...there is an non removable soap-opera effect on this set ??

I cannot stand that effect....soo close to hitting the order button as well.
post #2453 of 9972
Got my set last night. I hooked it up to my BDP320 playing Toy Story 3 and it looked incredible out of the box. I haven't adjusted anything yet in the picture menu. I plan on letting it run as is for a week before optimizing.

I did set the 320 to output 24hz though. I immediately noticed the SOE despite never having seen it before, it was that obvious. I then set the motion smoother to off and made sure 60hz was selected. It went away completely to my eyes. I wasn't able to select 3/2 pulldown as it was greyed out, am I missing something there? I don't think anyone but the persnicketiest of the picky should have a problem with the 24hz motion when the smoother is set to off. I'm not saying that isn't a large chunk of our posters though!
post #2454 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by manfr42720 View Post

Wait...there is an non removable soap-opera effect on this set ??

I cannot stand that effect....soo close to hitting the order button as well.

It's only when you feed it 24p material directly. So, for blu-ray it's a complete non-issue since you can just set the player to send 60hz. It only really becomes an issue if you are playing native 24fps files directly using the USB or SD card inputs.
post #2455 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD70GUY View Post

Got my set last night. I hooked it up to my BDP320 playing Toy Story 3 and it looked incredible out of the box. I haven't adjusted anything yet in the picture menu. I plan on letting it run as is for a week before optimizing.

I did set the 320 to output 24hz though. I immediately noticed the SOE despite never having seen it before, it was that obvious. I then set the motion smoother to off and made sure 60hz was selected. It went away completely to my eyes. I wasn't able to select 3/2 pulldown as it was greyed out, am I missing something there? I don't think anyone but the persnicketiest of the picky should have a problem with the 24hz motion when the smoother is set to off. I'm not saying that isn't a large chunk of our posters though!

I believe 3/2 pull down is only for 1080i source material.
post #2456 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

I believe 3/2 pull down is only for 1080i source material.

Ok, good to know. I have the BDP set to upconvert everything to 1080p and my Netflix and MLB.tv play from there as well. As a side note the MLB.tv and Netflix both look worlds better playing from my 320 than they do from my HTPC. Also the samsung ssg4100 glasses work with no setup. Just turn on 3d and turn on the glasses. They synced from 12 feet away on the couch no problem.
post #2457 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

It's only when you feed it 24p material directly. So, for blu-ray it's a complete non-issue since you can just set the player to send 60hz. It only really becomes an issue if you are playing native 24fps files directly using the USB or SD card inputs.

This is correct - keep in mind it's not limited just to the USB/card inputs. It is an issue any time you are playing 23.976 content with the tv in 60Hz mode, regardless of input source. Like you said, it's a non-issue as long as you just set the player to send 60hz.

I've tried playing 23.976 mkv files directly through the ST50's built-in USB media player, and also using a media player connected via HDMI outputting 24Hz, and either way, if the tv is set to 60Hz, it automatically applies motion smoothing (soap opera effect). This is with motion smoothing disabled in both cases.

The only way to get this tv to not display motion smoothing for 23.976 content is by having the tv in 48Hz mode, but of course that is not really an option because of the horrible flicker. Any time the tv encounters 24Hz material, whether USB/SD or HDMI, it will always apply motion smoothing when in 60Hz mode.

So bottom line, if true 23.976 playback is important to you, this is the wrong set. The only Panasonic plasma that can play 23.976 content correctly without any motion smoothing is the VT50, unless you are ok with the 48Hz flicker of the ST/GT series. The only other option is to go with a Samsung, since their E7000 and E8000 both have a proper 23.976/96Hz mode. But I can't recommend Samsung due to their fluctuating brightness issue.

Best thing to do is keep the ST50 set to 60Hz and always feed it 60Hz content, which means if you plan to play 23.976 video files, use an external media player and set it to output 60Hz. The motion of the ST50 looks great as long as you do that. Always feed it 60Hz and you're fine.
post #2458 of 9972
^^^ I wonder if this is why D-Nice, ChadB and I believe CNET said that playing 23.976 content in 60Hz mode is not an issue - the TV is applying some level of motion smoothing.
post #2459 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

I believe 3/2 pull down is only for 1080i source material.

I've been wanting to ask about this myself. Can anybody explain what CNET means when they say this in their review of the ST50:

"The ST50 passed our 1080i deinterlacing test with 3:2 pull-down set to On, but not when I used the default Auto (and, despite what the menu explanation says, this setting does affect HDMI sources)."


I've been a bit confused on when this should be set to on or auto, and when it should be off. Would it be only for 1080i? So I guess when watching cable with a 1080i signal it should be on, not auto, according to CNET? Is there any disadvantage to just leaving it set to on all the time? Will it just be automatically disabled when it receives 720p/1080p signals?
post #2460 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

This is not completely correct. You're correct with the first part of your statement. But it's not limited just to the USB/card inputs. It is an issue any time you are playing 23.976 content with the tv in 60Hz mode, regardless of input source. I've tried playing 23.976 mkv files directly through the ST50's built-in USB media player, and also using a media player connected via HDMI outputting 24Hz, and either way, if the tv is set to 60Hz, it automatically applies motion smoothing (soap opera effect). This is with motion smoothing disabled in both cases.

The only way to get this tv to not display motion smoothing for 23.976 content is by having the tv in 48Hz mode, but of course that is not really an option because of the horrible flicker. Any time the tv encounters 24Hz material, whether USB/SD or HDMI, it will always apply motion smoothing when in 60Hz mode.

So bottom line, if true 23.976 playback is important to you, this is the wrong set. The only Panasonic plasma that can play 23.976 content correctly without any motion smoothing is the VT50, unless you are ok with the 48Hz flicker of the ST/GT series. The only other option is to go with a Samsung, since their E7000 and E8000 both have a proper 23.976/96Hz mode. But I can't recommend Samsung due to their fluctuating brightness issue.

Best thing to do is keep the ST50 set to 60Hz and always feed it 60Hz content, which means if you plan to play 23.976 video files, use an external media player and set it to output 60Hz. The motion of the ST50 looks great as long as you do that. Always feed it 60Hz and you're fine.

Well, pretty much any external source is going to have a setting to output at 60hz which will bypass this. Many TVs don't accept native 24fps material at all so they need to have that setting.

So, at the end of the day, it's really only going to be an issue if you are using the internal media player of the TV.
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