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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 91

post #2701 of 9472
5/15/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiotypE View Post

Its an easy trap t fall into. Over the last two years I have had no less than 9 different TVs in my home due to being picky. Most of these seeds of contention with my purchases were planted on these very forums. Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss as most any normal person would have been ecstatic to own any one of the TV's below I returned.

PN51D7000
TWO PN59D7000s
P50ST30
TWO P55ST30
P60ST30 (Recently cracked the screen on this one. Had it for 11 months.)
P50GT25

P55ST50 (Better than all the above just a little too small)
P60ST50 (Very happy with it in comparison to all of the above)

I started to get very OCD about image quality and perceived issues. Realized after having about 6 grand worth of brand new TVs in different stages of arriving and being sent back sitting in my basement, that I had gone nuts.

The ST50 is a really big improvement for Panasonic. Is it perfect and without flaws, no, but it has less flaws and IMOP, a better, darker, cleaner image than any other TV I have owned. Take it from a recovered AVR OCD....enjoy your TV purchase rather than picking it apart.

Now I see why most of the online stores don't allow a return policy on TV's unless they are damaged from the shipping company.
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post #2702 of 9472
5/15/12 at 2:56pm
True.. How much of a loss do that take on returns like that? And the speaker companies?
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post #2703 of 9472
5/15/12 at 3:52pm
Returning a TV for defects or flaws I definitely understand. Returning to get a size bigger makes me scratch my head a bit. I don't care how many TV's I have to return to get one that is problem free. Best Buy or whoever can suck it as far as I am concerned. I don't think I would personally ever return the same model TV for a bigger size of the same model though.
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post #2704 of 9472
5/15/12 at 4:00pm
I thought that most buyers wish they had bought a bigger size, after a little time to adjust.
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post #2705 of 9472
5/15/12 at 4:08pm
One issue I could live with, two perhaps, depending on severity. But if a set exhibits three or more issues, however minor, I would return it rather than continue to whine about them - you will never, ever be happy otherwise.
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post #2706 of 9472
5/15/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

I thought that most buyers wish they had bought a bigger size, after a little time to adjust.

You can only go so big. Sit closer if you need a bigger tv.. I never regretted getting a 56",in fact never thought about going bigger,it was a good size..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

One issue I could live with, two perhaps, depending on severity. But if a set exhibits three or more issues, however minor, I would return it rather than continue to whine about them - you will never, ever be happy otherwise.

That's understandable,depending on the issues,for all the tv's my family has had,only a 50" Sony SXRD has had quite a few problems. I'm gonna give them my 56" Samsung DLP.
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post #2707 of 9472
5/15/12 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphion View Post

Ok guys, here is the absolute best way to test the screen uniformity of your ST50:

1) wait till it's night time and turn off the lights so you are in complete darkness

2) put on the blue slide

3) switch to cinema mode and turn down the color all the way to 0

4) stare at the screen for a few minutes with those conditions


Trust me guys, if you do that you will be amazed what you see.

When I first got my TV I did notice some faint vertical lines on the left side of my TV when viewing the slides. It was almost like IR if I had to describe it. I didn't notice it during normal viewing and it soon became unnoticeable on the slides, so I wasn't worried.

So now I just did the quoted test to check if it was still there and I do notice some faint vertical lines on the left and right side of the screen when I do it. I don't see them any other way.

Note: My TV is still below the break in period, as I am breaking it in slowly (normally).

If I had to guess, I think this may be some IR resulting from factory testing/setup. If one were to assume they use test patterns and keep them on for extended periods, it seems plausible.
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post #2708 of 9472
5/15/12 at 6:20pm
What do you use to break in your tv?
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post #2709 of 9472
5/15/12 at 6:32pm
So to see these lines I have to put in test slides, mess with the color, turn off lights and sit in a dark room.

Yea, I guess that's how watch tv a lot. I'm sure I will notice the lines all the time....
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post #2710 of 9472
5/15/12 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

What do you use to break in your tv?

Me?

I'm just watching TV/movies and playing games normally. I'll also toss in some break in slides too.
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post #2711 of 9472
5/15/12 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

I keep hearing about lines showing up on the st50? I'm starting to get worried about pulling the trigger on this Tv, is this line an isolated case? Does it go away? If someone owns this tv please let me know. Was looking forward to this tv but know might consider an LED. Thanks

I wish I knew more about it, but I only know what's said in here, and what I notice myself. I don't think anybody here can answer your questions on the line because none of us know what is the cause, nor to what extent, this line issue is. Panasonic told me the screen should be uniform with no lines, and to return it if it has a line. But he certainly doesn't work in the manufacturing plant where these are made, and he only knows what he's told to know. And I certainly don't want to go through the hassle of returning this for another one if I'm just going to end up with the same thing.

I'll call them again tomorrow since I only have a few days left to return/exchange the set, and see what another rep has to say about it.

Just so you know, as others have said, it is very very hard to see, even when looking for it. Very hard. Most people will never, ever see it even if they all do have it. Maybe that's what Panasonic is counting on. It just bugs me because I hate to think I got the set with a flaw when another one wouldn't have it.

Dierkdr, thanks for your post. Very good information, and hopefully the pink will work itself out. I will keep an eye on it.
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post #2712 of 9472
5/15/12 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWesp View Post

Is "this vertical line" thing of which you guys are talking about here the same as "vertical banding"? Cause I have a couple of faint lines too when watching football and I am in doubt if i shall return it. If that means that i might be returning multiple sets because the problem is not limited to only a few sets that might help me in overcoming the problem. At least it would be something like "trouble shared is trouble halved."

The line we are referring to is not vertical banding. I have no idea what this line is, but a theory suggests it may be a shadow of something behind the screen that can be seen under just the right conditions (break-in slides show every flaw).
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post #2713 of 9472
5/15/12 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Condor View Post

Me? I'm just watching TV/movies and playing games normally. I'll also toss in some break in slides too.

I sometimes like to play slideshows of 1920x1080 High Def wallpaper images in the backround while reading or working or just hanging around listening to music. They would probably work well as "break in" images to age the panel without fear of logos or banners or tickers and stuff.
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post #2714 of 9472
5/15/12 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Don't hold your breath. I'm thinking more and more it's part of how they manufacture these sets and they all have them. Of course Panasonic is just playing dumb with me so I can't get a straight answer. They told me if I see a line return it because it should be perfect, but if that's the case, then lots of their tvs are bad.

I don't think we're asking too much to have a tv without flaws for the price we're paying for these sets. I don't expect perfect, as in can't possibly get any better. I just think that a tv in this category should not have lines, blobs, or any other weird screen abnormalities. Even Panasonic told me the screen should be perfect. But I don't believe that for a second. So then I have a bad set since I have a very slight pink blotch in the corner and the line also? So what do I do - call Best Buy and tell them to pick it up and deliver a new one, when their "geek squad" idiots won't even be able to see what I'm talking about, then if they agree I'll have to run 100+ hours of slides again, no tv for another week, and all for what? To find out they all have a line or a pink blotch here or there?

It's just too bad that we have to settle for issues that are avoidable.

Go over to high def junkies, register if you haven't already, go to the plasma display forums and look for the Plasma Insider's Discussion Thread, start reading at page 540 or somewhere around post 10781.
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post #2715 of 9472
5/15/12 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

I keep hearing about lines showing up on the st50? I'm starting to get worried about pulling the trigger on this Tv, is this line an isolated case? Does it go away? If someone owns this tv please let me know. Was looking forward to this tv but know might consider an LED. Thanks

Are you going to run the slides? If not then you'll probably never see it if it is there. People who saw it in the slides are also reporting that it fades and goes away- like IR does. Also, look at the pictures posted earlier to see what it actually looks like and note that the picture is of a solid colored slide- not anything you would sit and watch on a regular basis.

If you really want this tv then stop reading these threads and buy one, then come back and post your opinion etc. Don't let these people push you away from experiencing a really good tv. However, if you love LEDs, then you may find that you'll go through a bit of an adjustment period, maybe not, the two are very different. However, if after looking at the picture of the vertical line scares you then don't bother with an LED either - go find an old crt or buy a projector. LEDs have light bleed, flash lighting, clouding....

Or maybe you're considering a Samsung... now there's a scary consideration IMO, I can't deal with flashing brights and blacks, nor a company that fails to fix it for the following year (panny and samsung had it last year), that's why I waited until this year to buy. I bought the GT50 and I'm delighted.
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post #2716 of 9472
5/15/12 at 9:04pm
I certainly don't want to scare people away from enjoying this tv. It does produce a gorgeous image. And I agree with sheshechic - I'll take this over anything Samsung puts out. They have their own set of problems. At least Panasonic's problems are mostly hidden so we'll never see them under normal conditions. Samsung's problems make themselves much more known with just normal viewing (screen turns off when video is all black, fluctuating brightness).
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post #2717 of 9472
5/15/12 at 9:59pm
That sounds terrible. Poor Samsung owners.
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post #2718 of 9472
5/15/12 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace1970 View Post

That sounds terrible. Poor Samsung owners.

I know, I used to be one. I traded in my D7000 last month and put it towards the ST50. I just couldn't take the fluctuating brightness issue any longer. That's how I ended up with the ST50.
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post #2719 of 9472
5/15/12 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Are you going to run the slides? If not then you'll probably never see it if it is there. People who saw it in the slides are also reporting that it fades and goes away- like IR does. Also, look at the pictures posted earlier to see what it actually looks like and note that the picture is of a solid colored slide- not anything you would sit and watch on a regular basis.

If you really want this tv then stop reading these threads and buy one, then come back and post your opinion etc. Don't let these people push you away from experiencing a really good tv. However, if you love LEDs, then you may find that you'll go through a bit of an adjustment period, maybe not, the two are very different. However, if after looking at the picture of the vertical line scares you then don't bother with an LED either - go find an old crt or buy a projector. LEDs have light bleed, flash lighting, clouding....


The "line" which I have as well is such a MINOR issue and shouldn't detract anyone from getting an ST50. As I said in a previous post, the line has definitely faded in the last week. It's still there, but I absolutely have to look for it and cannot see it at all with the contrast at 70 or higher. And even then it's only visible on a slide or solid color. I will take that over uneven backlighting any day of the week.
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post #2720 of 9472
5/16/12 at 12:47am
Great news Dan.

I sold my LCD to get the GT50 and I'm in love.
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post #2721 of 9472
5/16/12 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Great news Dan.

I sold my LCD to get the GT50 and I'm in love.

Yeah, but how do you like the tv?
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post #2722 of 9472
5/16/12 at 3:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracule View Post

I think the whole D-Nice settings thing is taken too far in many cases. What I mean by that is that D-Nice simply posts his settings after panel prep as a "reference point". No 2 panels are exactly the same so if you do your prep and then plug in D-Nice's settings and something doesnt look right (i.e. black crush or light blacks) then your settings need to be changed.

I believe even D-Nice himself will agree with me. As far as black level the Kuro is still darker but from measurements I've seen the difference should not be very easy to see so if your blacks are very noticeably lighter try using a calibration disc of some kind to set things properly.

It would actually be interesting if D-Nice could play with a group of say 5 brand new sets all with the slides run on them and then post his settings for all 5. The chances of all 5 using the exact same settings are incredibly slim

I'm only new on here, but I've been reading lots of posts where people are using the settings of someone called 'D-Nice' and then complaining about it not looking as good as they thought it would. There's no way on earth that each panel can accept the same settings and look the same, come on. It may be reasonably close, but it won't be exactly what that specific panel needs. And a few clicks either way can make a big difference.

I'm quite surprised people are doing this.
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post #2723 of 9472
5/16/12 at 5:41am
I am actually starting to think my vertical lines on the right of the screen are different than what people are describing. I examined the display for hours yesterday and came to the conclusion that it's actually 4-5 super thin lines that take up nearly the whole one third right side of the screen.

They are razor thin to the point where I can't even count the exact number with certainty, but as I said, the whole one third right of the screen is effected.

It is so hard to notice that I actually used to think it was one line. Took me a long time to realize what was going on.

I heard people describe this as shadows or discoloration, but I just don't see it that way. The best way I can describe it, it's as if someone took a razor blade and made 4-5 ultra thin cuts to the right side of my screen.

Is this what you guys are experiencing or is my problem different?
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post #2724 of 9472
5/16/12 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

Your not nuts,your crazy :P Cmon,the average person is not going to see most of these issues let alone have 6k of plasma's ordered and then return. Videophile is completely different than someone that just wants a good tv. I'm sure you could come to my house and see my Samsung DLP and tear is to shreds,but to me it still looks really good. I'm sure putting my new plasma against it and its gonna look like crap..

Heh, exactly my point. The moral to this story is, ALL tvs have issues in one form or another, the question is, would you consider those issues defects, limitations or just inherent issues with the tech?

I was THE average person before I started all of this and this is my warning to the "average" person, the more you educate yourself on these "issues" the more you will look for them, find them and fixate on them which over time will sap your enjoyment out of the new purchase.

Of all the TVs I had running through my home in the last 2 years the ST50 has the least amount of "defects/issues" which to me, makes it about as "perfect" a TV as I can get right now.

Consider my little story a cautionary tale...heh

And lets be honest here, I am sure I am not the only one that has gone down this road, be it with TVs, speakers, A/V receivers......... I have since realized the error in my ways and now just enjoy my new purchase.
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post #2725 of 9472
5/16/12 at 6:55am
Got my ST50 set up last night and loaded up Dnice's settings for no 100 hour break in. Good golly this thing has a beautiful picture. Only problem was my old Monoprice HDMI cable wouldn't fit because of the layout. Other than that...wow...just wow.
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post #2726 of 9472
5/16/12 at 7:32am
[quote=BiotypE;22028843]Heh, exactly my point. The moral to this story is, ALL tvs have issues in one form or another, the question is, would you consider those issues defects, limitations or just inherent issues with the tech?

I was THE average person before I started all of this and this is my warning to the "average" person, the more you educate yourself on these "issues" the more you will look for them, find them and fixate on them which over time will sap your enjoyment out of the new purchase.

Of all the TVs I had running through my home in the last 2 years the ST50 has the least amount of "defects/issues" which to me, makes it about as "perfect" a TV as I can get right now.

Consider my little story a cautionary tale...heh

Exactly.. Too many people look for problems.. If its a problem that is right out in the open ,like my 1st Samsung DLP,you could see the bulb right thru the screen,got another one the next day,zero issues in 6 yrs. I'm not running slides and then stare at the screen cause I might see a line I might not otherwise see.. That's just stupid at best. Just enjoy the freaking thing! Hopefully I get mine tomorrow..
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post #2727 of 9472
5/16/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

ALL tvs have issues in one form or another, the question is, would you consider those issues defects, limitations or just inherent issues with the tech?

There's a difference between issues and defects. Phosphor lag, input lag, reflectiveness, line bleed, buzzing - those are engineering choices that were made, and can be seen as issues. Defects are things like colored blobs, uniformity issues, lines, etc.

I'm fine with issues, because I know what to expect when it's part of the technology. The definition of perfect is "without flaw" not to be confused with "cannot be better in any way." You can always improve something, but it doesn't have to be broken to improve it.
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post #2728 of 9472
5/16/12 at 9:36am
That's why they keep coming out with new tv's,to make them better and better. If Samsung know's they have a buzzing issue,wouldn't you think they would resolve it,or maybe they can't right now.
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post #2729 of 9472
5/16/12 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphion View Post

I am actually starting to think my vertical lines on the right of the screen are different than what people are describing. I examined the display for hours yesterday and came to the conclusion that it's actually 4-5 super thin lines that take up nearly the whole one third right side of the screen.

They are razor thin to the point where I can't even count the exact number with certainty, but as I said, the whole one third right of the screen is effected.

It is so hard to notice that I actually used to think it was one line. Took me a long time to realize what was going on.

I heard people describe this as shadows or discoloration, but I just don't see it that way. The best way I can describe it, it's as if someone took a razor blade and made 4-5 ultra thin cuts to the right side of my screen.

Is this what you guys are experiencing or is my problem different?

Try posting a picture of the problem.
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post #2730 of 9472
5/16/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

There's a difference between issues and defects. Phosphor lag, input lag, reflectiveness, line bleed, buzzing - those are engineering choices that were made, and can be seen as issues. Defects are things like colored blobs, uniformity issues, lines, etc.

I'm fine with issues, because I know what to expect when it's part of the technology. The definition of perfect is "without flaw" not to be confused with "cannot be better in any way." You can always improve something, but it doesn't have to be broken to improve it.

Well said. There's a difference between limitations with the technology (line bleed, phosphor lag, etc.) and screen defects that shouldn't be there (pink blotches, lines).
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