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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 94

post #2791 of 9509
pcgeek543, thanks for your input. It's very much appreciated.

I cannot for the life of me understand why Panasonic would sabotage their 48Hz mode. Is it just to make the 96Hz mode in their VT50 series look more attractive and tempting? Maybe there's a technical limitation we don't know about that Panasonic couldn't work out with the flicker?

Something else I stumbled across tonight testing 3D files - and it was troubling:

The tv is supposed to be able to automatically detect when you're inputting a 3D side-by-side signal, and automatically switch to 3D mode, which it usually does. But I ran into 2 issues with how that works:

1) When I start playing a 3D sbs file (or under/over), say from my media player via HDMI, it seems to take the tv quite a while to figure out that it's 3D. It takes anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute or more before it figures out it should switch to 3D - by then, the movie is playing. Not cool. If I hit the 3D button on the remote to try and tell it to go to 3D, it doesn't - it gives me a pop-up window giving me 2 options:

2D

or

2D>3D

No option exists for me to tell it to go to true 3D mode, until it detects by itself that it's getting fed 3D content. Not good. By contrast, the Samsung D7000 had a 3D button also, and when I hit it, it would automatically go into 3D mode instantly. So I could start a 3D sbs file, hit the 3D button, and immediately be watching 3D. With the ST50, I have no choice but to wait until it decides to go into 3D mode. Meanwhile, the sbs file is playing both images side-by-side, while the tv "thinks".

2) Which leads to the second issue - on 1 sbs file, it couldn't figure out it was 3D - even though it was! It played for minutes, and had no intention of going into 3D mode! Again, I hit the 3D button on the remote, and all I got were "2D" or "2D>3D" for choices. I tried fast-forwarding the video to like 10 minutes in, and then let it play from there, and then it decided finally that it's supposed to be in 3D mode.

This is a problem from what I can see - when I hit the 3D button, there should be 3 options, not 2 - "2D", "2D>3D", and "3D". There's no way (unless I'm completely wrong on this) to force the tv into 3D mode in case it can't figure it out for itself.

Also, once it's in 3D mode, it seems to take a few tries to get the glasses to actually work - I have to switch the button on the glasses back and forth several times for it to start working. Sometimes it kicks in when the tv does, sometimes I have to fuss with the button on the glasses.

Does anybody else have these troubles? Is there something I'm missing here when trying to switch to 3D mode?
post #2792 of 9509
I figured out (sort of I think) what was going on with the 3D mode:

I tried both "Auto 1" and "Auto 2" modes under 3D settings. The problem is, the tv will not let you switch to 3D mode if one side of the sbs image has a logo and the other side doesn't (like if you play a downloaded 3D file off any number of video sites that offer sbs content). So if somebody decides to encode their 3D file, say a 3D demo video, or something they shot themselves in 3D, and decide to stick a logo on 1 side of the screen, say a copyright mark, the tv will see that the left/right images are too different, and so it will not allow me to switch to 3D until that logo goes away. I tried it a number of times and it just wouldn't give me the option to switch to 3D mode until it went away. Once the logo was gone, it gave me the "3D" option in the menu.

I'll try some more videos and see what else I can figure out. Maybe it doesn't have this trouble with all sbs videos? Of course most sbs videos, even home-made ones, hopefully won't have a logo on only 1 side of the image - it's just common sense that both left and right sides need to show the logo, otherwise your eyes go batty.
post #2793 of 9509
I have had all of those issues. I think the 2nd one is usually caused from going from one file or movie to another one too quickly so the TV gets stuck and doesn't switch until you stop it and replay or it just lags behind. I have even had some fall out of 3d mode quite a few times wtf lol. I also don't like how fast the glasses auto shutoff,it's way to premature. I get so frustrated always having to turn them off and right back on,auto shutoff should be atleast five minutes. I have the Ut50 btw,I just figured I should post in here aswell because most of the issues and fixes are just as relevant for the St50.
post #2794 of 9509
@ Eagle2

Yes,Panasonic is intentionally applying the strobing/flicker effect on 48hz... some Hitachi,LG and Toshiba plasma models have the 48hz feature and they do not strobe/flicker and they all passed cadence and got great reviews.

All panasonic has to do is post a simple manual firmware to defeat or turn off this dumb feature.
post #2795 of 9509
I will probably be purchasing a ST50 today but wanted to get an opinion on some things. I watch alot of sports, soccer-football-basketball, in that order. Other than sports, just normal HD programming and some blurays and PS3 games. I am coming from 3 LED's that I was not satisfied with due to flashlighting and bad vertical banding. Soccer was unwatchable as the vertical banding would be horrible as the camera panned across a solid green background.

1. Will this faint vertical line on the right side likely be visible during soccer? Most people said they couldnt see it in normal viewing but alot of my normal viewing is soccer which may make it more visible. Alot of the vertical banding on my LED was not visible on other content.

2. With IR being something to monitor, I will have to limit the amount of time I keep the channel on ESPN or any other channel with a scrolling bar at the bottom. With my TV viewing habits, should I try to find an acceptable LED panel or make the switch to Plasma but be very careful in the very beginning of the panel's life?

I have been following this thread so I am aware of some of the issues that may come up but after much research, I still feel like the ST50 is the best choice out there for me. Thanks for the help.
post #2796 of 9509
This TV seems to do a much better job at limiting or eliminating line bleed. Banding is also way less pronounced than any plasma TV I have owned. IR is also handled much better and I have not noticed any IR after several hours of BF3 and watching movies in letterbox format

I would definitely exercise a bit of caution when viewing for the first few hundred hours but I don't think you have anything to worry about.
post #2797 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiotypE View Post

This TV seems to do a much better job at limiting or eliminating line bleed. Banding is also way less pronounced than any plasma TV I have owned. IR is also handled much better and I have not noticed any IR after several hours of BF3 and watching movies in letterbox format

I would definitely exercise a bit of caution when viewing for the first few hundred hours but I don't think you have anything to worry about.

+1 on this. This is my third plasma and the line bleed, banding and IR are far better than my 7 year old LG and 5 year old Samsung.
post #2798 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

@ Eagle2

Yes,Panasonic is intentionally applying the strobing/flicker effect on 48hz... some Hitachi,LG and Toshiba plasma models have the 48hz feature and they do not strobe/flicker and they all passed cadence and got great reviews.

All panasonic has to do is post a simple manual firmware to defeat or turn off this dumb feature.

And can you say with certainty that doing so will not have a negative impact anywhere else? I highly doubt that Panasonic implements/maintains screwy 48hz just for S&G.
post #2799 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

@ Eagle2

Yes,Panasonic is intentionally applying the strobing/flicker effect on 48hz... some Hitachi,LG and Toshiba plasma models have the 48hz feature and they do not strobe/flicker and they all passed cadence and got great reviews.

All panasonic has to do is post a simple manual firmware to defeat or turn off this dumb feature.

In that case, I am very, very disappointed in them for this. I find that totally unacceptable. Who in the world would possibly want their tv to flicker on purpose? I was thinking it was an unavoidable limitation. If they're truly doing this on purpose, it's a new low for a company to stoop. This warrants further investigation. It's really hard to believe, but again, even if it's not on purpose, if other brands years ago could handle 48Hz flicker-free, then why can't Panasonic?
post #2800 of 9509
Is there a link to evidence outside of a couple of paranoid users' conspiracy theory that Panasonic is deliberately crippling their product? Please help the rest of us out.

Thanks.
post #2801 of 9509
Got my 60st50 Wednesday, at the half-way running slides for D-nice calibrate. Quick question, when running internet to the TV, is it best to go directly into TV, or go into what will be a new Dish Network Hopper in a couple days? Any pros-cons?

Amazon is great! Delivered when they said, installers let me mount the stand before they tested it, and put it in place... one the best free services I've got in a while!
post #2802 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcat View Post

Got my 60st50 Wednesday, at the half-way running slides for D-nice calibrate. Quick question, when running internet to the TV, is it best to go directly into TV, or go into what will be a new Dish Network Hopper in a couple days? Any pros-cons?

Amazon is great! Delivered when they said, installers let me mount the stand before they tested it, and put it in place... one the best free services I've got in a while!

My 60"ST50 should be here next week.. How do you like it so far? I bought the Disney WoW disk,2 pairs of 3D glasses,and the under the sea 3D imax movie..
post #2803 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcat View Post

Got my 60st50 Wednesday, at the half-way running slides for D-nice calibrate. Quick question, when running internet to the TV, is it best to go directly into TV, or go into what will be a new Dish Network Hopper in a couple days? Any pros-cons?

Amazon is great! Delivered when they said, installers let me mount the stand before they tested it, and put it in place... one the best free services I've got in a while!

Why not go directly if you can? If the Hopper is MOCA (I think it is) then I don't know that there would be any difference either.
post #2804 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Is there a link to evidence outside of a couple of paranoid users' conspiracy theory that Panasonic is deliberately crippling their product? Please help the rest of us out.

Thanks.



All these wannabe engineers and software developers couldn't be wrong... could they?
post #2805 of 9509
I love it so far, nothing like 2 days for colored screens... I'm not big on 3D, and just have an Oppo DVD player (upconverts). Will let you know what I think next week once I calibrate it and actually watch something. I forgot the TV is wifi, so no need to connect a cable, I'll use my last router plug to the Hopper. Definitely has a buzz when it hits the white screen, but on no other colors. Buzz is probably not load enough to detect once something is actually playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

My 60"ST50 should be here next week.. How do you like it so far? I bought the Disney WoW disk,2 pairs of 3D glasses,and the under the sea 3D imax movie..
post #2806 of 9509
Quote:


1. Will this faint vertical line on the right side likely be visible during soccer? Most people said they couldnt see it in normal viewing but alot of my normal viewing is soccer which may make it more visible. Alot of the vertical banding on my LED was not visible on other content.

Would expect that there could easily be unit-to-unit variations, but we had a "Vertical Shadow" on our 60" ST50, about 1" in from the Right bezel.

Only time we spotted it was on a couple gray slides, and it has now dissipated - about 3 week in now - and even the remaining Slightly Brighter strip right along the inner edge of the same bezel seems to be blending in.

Again: NEITHER of those is, or ever was, noted in Normal Programming - including a number of Test Scenes that we used extensively with 2011 panels to check for unwanted Green and/or Pink Tint.


Set has the inherent limitations of "Plasma", and the FLAWS in poor quality sources show up Very Well - - but when fed a "real" HD program, the PQ is Outstanding.

If you decide to purchase, hope you enjoy your set!
post #2807 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcat View Post

I love it so far, nothing like 2 days for colored screens... I'm not big on 3D, and just have an Oppo DVD player (upconverts). Will let you know what I think next week once I calibrate it and actually watch something. I forgot the TV is wifi, so no need to connect a cable, I'll use my last router plug to the Hopper. Definitely has a buzz when it hits the white screen, but on no other colors. Buzz is probably not load enough to detect once something is actually playing.

Thanks for the info.. Are you using a slide off of a usb stick? How long do you run that for?
post #2808 of 9509
Using slides on SD card. Info here (once you join). 100 hours

Slideshow Settings

Frame: Off
Photo Effect: Off
Transition Effect: Off
Photo Size: Normal
Burst Playback: Off
Display Interval: Slow
Repeat Playback: On
post #2809 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Is there a link to evidence outside of a couple of paranoid users' conspiracy theory that Panasonic is deliberately crippling their product? Please help the rest of us out.

Thanks.

I don't recall suggesting a conspiracy theory.

And I'm not the one making the claim that Panasonic is doing this. Re-read the posts. I'm questioning it just as you are.
post #2810 of 9509
I have not tested this yet but does anyone know if there is any kind of screen saver that pops up when streaming to music via DNLA on this TV. I love the feature and it is really quick and responsive but I would rather not have that screen sitting static if there is a way to prevent it.
post #2811 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post


If you decide to purchase, hope you enjoy your set!

Went ahead and ordered it from Amazon. They will be picking up an LG LM6700 when they bring the ST50. Thanks
post #2812 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcat View Post

Using slides on SD card. Info here (once you join). 100 hours

Slideshow Settings

Frame: Off
Photo Effect: Off
Transition Effect: Off
Photo Size: Normal
Burst Playback: Off
Display Interval: Slow
Repeat Playback: On

Thank you.. That link is broken tho..
post #2813 of 9509
I guess in the end though this may not matter much to me. After doing some more 3D tests, I'm strongly considering returning the tv for a Samsung. And I'm not happy.

The ST50 refuses to recognize the 3D content I feed it in a timely manner. I have played file after file after file of side-by-side 3D, and it takes anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 or more minutes to allow 3D to activate, even when pressing the 3D button - it just doesn't give me the option of switching to 3D mode. All I get is "2D" and "2D>3D" for choices. This is totally unacceptable and was not an issue with the D7000. I am a big fan of 3D and will be playing a fair amount of 3D, and this tv makes it painful to engage in 3D. By the time it activates, I'm minutes into the video, and then I have to rewind the video and start again and hope the tv stays in 3D mode while I do that. Also, I'm constantly wrestling with the glasses to activate once the tv is in 3D mode. With the Samsung it was instant.

Also, I'm more and more surprised that the St50 has such bad crosstalk. The Samsung had crosstalk of course, but not this bad. It's bad. Really bad. It makes much of the 3D content I've looked at unwatchable. That same content had less crosstalk on the Samsung. Sure, 48Hz mode can reduce the crosstalk. But not all my 3D videos are in 24fps. I have lots of small 3D clips and short features in 25fps, 50fps, etc. And those need to be played at 60Hz to play smoothly, which means lots of crosstalk.

I've also noticed the tv suffers from very bad -temporary- image retention. I'm sure I'll get blasted here for mentioning it, but yeah, it's pretty bad. Over the last couple days, I've noticed that when I turn on my WDTV Live media payer, it displays a small black box in the upper-right corner of the screen with the time in white inside the box. That's on the main screen of the WDTV. If I keep that on display for even less than a minute - I'm not kidding - that box remains on the tv for a good half hour before fading away. I'd be scared to death playing games on this thing, and I do plan on gaming on this set a bit.

The 48Hz flicker is also very frustrating and unusable, whether the flicker is intentional or not. Forced interpolation of 48Hz material is also unfortunate, as it renders the already abysmal media player worthless.

I've been trying to be forgiving with the tv's quirks because I know they all have issues, and I really want this tv to work out for me. But after witnessing the 3D issues yesterday and today, I can't imagine ever being happy with the 3D in this set. It just doesn't want to recognize sbs content until it feels like it, and the crosstalk really hurts the image badly.

I'm going to have to make a difficult decision tomorrow. I don't want to do this, but I'm so disappointed with the 3D that I'm strongly considering my options now.
post #2814 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I guess in the end though this may not matter much to me. After doing some more 3D tests, I'm strongly considering returning the tv for a Samsung. And I'm not happy.

The ST50 refuses to recognize the 3D content I feed it in a timely manner. I have played file after file after file of side-by-side 3D, and it takes anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 or more minutes to allow 3D to activate, even when pressing the 3D button - it just doesn't give me the option of switching to 3D mode. All I get is "2D" and "2D>3D" for choices. This is totally unacceptable and was not an issue with the D7000. I am a big fan of 3D and will be playing a fair amount of 3D, and this tv makes it painful to engage in 3D. By the time it activates, I'm minutes into the video, and then I have to rewind the video and start again and hope the tv stays in 3D mode while I do that. Also, I'm constantly wrestling with the glasses to activate once the tv is in 3D mode. With the Samsung it was instant.

Also, I'm more and more surprised that the St50 has such bad crosstalk. The Samsung had crosstalk of course, but not this bad. It's bad. Really bad. It makes much of the 3D content I've looked at unwatchable. That same content had less crosstalk on the Samsung. Sure, 48Hz mode can reduce the crosstalk. But not all my 3D videos are in 24fps. I have lots of small 3D clips and short features in 25fps, 50fps, etc. And those need to be played at 60Hz to play smoothly, which means lots of crosstalk.

I've also noticed the tv suffers from very bad -temporary- image retention. I'm sure I'll get blasted here for mentioning it, but yeah, it's pretty bad. Over the last couple days, I've noticed that when I turn on my WDTV Live media payer, it displays a small black box in the upper-right corner of the screen with the time in white inside the box. That's on the main screen of the WDTV. If I keep that on display for even less than a minute - I'm not kidding - that box remains on the tv for a good half hour before fading away. I'd be scared to death playing games on this thing, and I do plan on gaming on this set a bit.

The 48Hz flicker is also very frustrating and unusable, whether the flicker is intentional or not. Forced interpolation of 48Hz material is also unfortunate, as it renders the already abysmal media player worthless.

I've been trying to be forgiving with the tv's quirks because I know they all have issues, and I really want this tv to work out for me. But after witnessing the 3D issues yesterday and today, I can't imagine ever being happy with the 3D in this set. It just doesn't want to recognize sbs content until it feels like it, and the crosstalk really hurts the image badly.

I'm going to have to make a difficult decision tomorrow. I don't want to do this, but I'm so disappointed with the 3D that I'm strongly considering my options now.

Are you sure you have the right glasses? What is the model #? I bet you don't have the right ones..
post #2815 of 9509
Of course I do - they were included with the tv by BB - they threw them in. They are this year's glasses. If they weren't they wouldn't work because last year they used infrared, this year they use bluetooth. They work fine - the tv just has major crosstalk issues. And this is with the 3D mode in custom, per CNET's settings, with a bit more brightness and contrast applied to compensate for the glasses.
post #2816 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I don't recall suggesting a conspiracy theory.

And I'm not the one making the claim that Panasonic is doing this. Re-read the posts. I'm questioning it just as you are.

You are though one of the people perpetuating the rumor, without substantiation. Just sayin'.
post #2817 of 9509
LowTech: Wow I have had the exact opposite experience with IR. I have played hours of BF3 which did leave IR on my old ST30 and this set displays no such IR. I have looked and have not had any instances of IR since I picked the set up. Very strange. That also hold true for letterbox movies. Hope whatever you decide to do works out well for you.
post #2818 of 9509
Eagle_2 before you plunk down your money and since you want to like it, why not take a look at the GT50? See if they have one set up with 3D so you can feel more confident about your decision. I know that Samsungs issues are going to bug you too.

FWIW, I've never like Cnet's settings.

One question: what movie were you watching and what player do you have? Sorry if you've said and I over looked it.
post #2819 of 9509
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiotypE View Post

LowTech: Wow I have had the exact opposite experience with IR. I have played hours of BF3 which did leave IR on my old ST30 and this set displays no such IR. I have looked and have not had any instances of IR since I picked the set up. Very strange. That also hold true for letterbox movies. Hope whatever you decide to do works out well for you.

I think you might have meant to address Eagle_2?

I believe that some people are being over sensitive/stressing about IR when they can't see it with normal content and I'm not singling out Eagle either.
post #2820 of 9509
Panasonic knew about the 48Hz flickering as it's clearly stated in the menu's details. Other plasma TV's don't do this, so what are we supposed to think? Seems like they knew about the issue and instead of redesigning things, they made it a "feature"?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

You are though one of the people perpetuating the rumor, without substantiation. Just sayin'.
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